You ignore any and all context. If that's your sole criteria for judging things great but we were basically wiped out by Ottowa if it wasn't for a roll of the dice with Kreider. For all the wins and whatnot that team would have actually lost in the QF. Says a LOT
How bad would you kill for our old team?
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You ignore any and all context. If that's your sole criteria for judging things great but we were basically wiped out by Ottowa if it wasn't for a roll of the dice with Kreider. For all the wins and whatnot that team would have actually lost in the QF. Says a LOT
I am ignoring the context because the context, according to you, is something that simply did not happen. They beat Ottawa. They beat Washington.
I apologize they didnt beat those teams in the fashion you would've hoped.
NikC
Registered User
- Oct 7, 2008
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Exactly. Why make an appeal to last years team and the supposed strengths of the lineup and coaching and then close your eyes to results? Sure we won. Was that ever in question?
Lundqvist. Krider. Our offense died on the vine .. again
BwayBshirt
Registered User
First of all, how did I downplay last year?
I said it was a great season. I agonized like everybody else over the fact that they came so, so close to getting to the Final only to come up short. Like many, last season has the good opportunity to stay with me for a long time because we all know how special it was particularly after so many years of futility/marginal results.
Yet, like many, I look forward to seeing this team/franchise hopefully push last year down the list of good memories by going farther & achieving higher quality goals with a better roster top-to-bottom.
It was a good team with really good results with good, poignant moments here & there that fell short in 1 singular season. There was nothing lasting about last year's team except a few good moments.
2nd, I think you're confused in linking my opinion with the results of the team. I'm linking my opinion with the style of play as well as the makeup of the team.
Everybody & their mama knew that the Rangers could not attempt to repeat the blueprint from last year. It made zero sense to do so. And yet Tortorella/Sullivan tried...and predictably failed to a large degree.
We all want end results similar to last year & then some. But who wants to see that exact same style of play every year? Who wants to see a team have to go the distance EVERY, SINGLE, DAMN, TIME in every series to get results? Why can't we hope/want/yearn/demand/expect for better?
EDIT: P.S.- I was a big, big advocate of Tortorella coming to New York in the beginning. I thought that we were getting "Safe is Death" Torts from Tampa Bay. I was even cool with what I saw the last 2 years while the "retooling" was taking place. As I said before, I was beyond angry with what I saw from the start of this year.
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SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
For a team that has not seen a ton of success and is almost two decades removed from it's last Cup, it seems a bit greedy to decide in what manner you want to win games.
The problem is the way they beat those teams left them ripe to be knocked off by the Devils...
while you might be satisfied with a single outlier season, I'm not...had they won the SC ala the Marlins WS wins my opinion maybe would be different and I won't denigrate what they accomplished last season, but I'm enough of a realist to know a lot of things broke their way last season and that playing playoff style hockey for an entire season is not conducive to advancing far in the playoffs.
Satisfied? Huh? I am giving that team credit because they bought into a rugged system, sacrificed, and finished the season much better than anyone expected. Thats admirable - and much more than I can say about the mismatched roster of this season.
Anyway, its my belief that had they not played that style, they certainly wouldnt have made it to the conference finals. The notion that loosening the offensive reigns and blocking less shots = Stanley cup is absurd when you look at this roster.
So you think that roster with that style could be successful long term?
I'm not disputing that the season was a tremendous success...but IMO it was an outlier season and unrepeatable.
I think it depends on what loosening means...if it means a track meet I agree with you, if it means driving to the net instead of 3 guys behind the goal line then I disagree...there can be a happy medium between track meet and the last 2 seasons defensive shell.
BwayBshirt
Registered User
Last year's style fit last year's team, which is correct. A team of grinders & castoffs & newbies needed something easy to adhere to as well as something that was fresh...and let's be honest, the NHL never saw or rarely had seen something like what the Rangers did last year.
What's also correct is that Tortorella had 2 different kinds of teams this year compared to last year...and didn't try to change the style to fit.
As a head coach, the job is to make the adjustments to what you got. And he never did. All while foolishly expecting the team to play the exact same way.
This is exactly it.
Everything screamed for an alteration from Tortorella because the Rangers' style was easy for other, better quality opponents/coaches this year to adjust to given time & preparation.
He had to change something...anything...and didn't. Long-term the system we've seen had ZERO chance to be sustained & still lead to progressive, high-end results.
I thought Tortorella was simply using this passive system as a bridge while the talent level was being built up. It was absurd what we saw this year. He needed to grow with the team & for the most unknown, bizarre reasons didn't.
Also, it wasn't like the Rangers were a lazy hockey team this year. They were still one of the hardest working teams around. They laid it out there regularly. The bottom line is that the team had guys who were sick & tired of using so much energy for so few tangible results.
Some ignored the system(Richards). Some hung tough & still didn't get results(Gaborik). A lot of them were stewing inside(Lundqvist).
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Umm actually it DID happen as I said what happenned is we were in fact pushed to the brink of elimination in the QF even WITH the enormous boost we recieved from CK.
We were then a Scott Norwoodian 4 min gaffe away from what i think certainly would have been elimination in Wsh. There IS importance to context here and to ignore it completely is just silly. Do you have to possess the same opinion? No. I don't share your view though I understand where it comes from. You are being blind to the validity of the oppossing view
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You are making a false assumption in this post. The discussion is not about being satisfied with our trip to the ECF. Multiple people have said they were very happy. The discussion being had is about how good last years team really was compared to this years team. Taking into consideration how we won barely against competition that was vastly inferior to Boston (who killed us and everyone else besides Tor this year) it seems the team wasn't that great. To your point that team was great for a Ranger team and it was a wonderful ride that grinded to a halt so to speak but that's not saying much because of the NYR woeful history.
I suppose we could blind ourselves to reality, accept the better NYR teams while ignoring how they remain vastly inferior to truly great NHL champions. But I am looking towards being a great NHL champion I crave that as a fan. Regardless I was happy watching the 2012 NYR. I am now objectively trying to look back and recognize that they were a great NYR team but only a very good NHL team. They failed to get it done when it was handed to them.
Comparing last years teams to other NYR teams is of course going to make the 2012 Rangers look great b/c the NYR have been a joke franchise. Comparing them to actual great teams they come up very short hence the ECF exit. Even if I compare the 12 and 13 NYR teams I find it VERY hard to say that we'd be in much better shape moving forward with that team compared to the one we currently have. It'd be about the same. I actually think we are better off right now. The only thing I'd change is the Clowe trade which i feel was ridiculously stupid. We faced better competition this year hence we were eliminated earlier with a team that was roughly the same in terms of overall skill and heart. I've read your posts you know all of this so I think you are misreading people trying to objectively analyze the team for the sake of dicussion on a discussion board as greed.
It's an objective look at both teams overall skill and what shape we'd be in moving forward. It doesn't have to be right or wrong but to say "N'uh uh that team made it to the ECF end of discussion!" makes no sense. It's a response designed to be a simple yet barely substantiated debate ender with little logic or reason put into it. Why do I say this? Because it utterly ignores the oppossition we faced. I can't respect an opinion like that with zero context or thought put into it
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Our team last year looked a whole lot like the Bruins this year. Or basically every year.
I loved that team but there were issues. I wanted Gaborik gone. Plus, he had lingering shoulder issues that he went into surgery again for this year.
Plus as much as I love Dubi and AA, I believe we had other issues besides trading them for Rick Nash.
Like getting rid of Prust who was much more than justa 4th line winger.
Like replacing him with Asham or you can say Poille. Ughhh
Signing Pyatt. Terrible mistake
Just a bunch of guys with what seems to be lacking emotion. I hate it. Needing defense so we signed Hamrlik. UGHHHHH
So many bad moves.
It happened, so lets deal with it. We saved ourselves by trading Gabby for Moore and Brassard and maybe Dorsett seems solid but lets get rid of some of these no emotion players like Pyatt, Asham and whoever. And bring in some classic guys.
Idk who yet.
I loved that team but there were issues. I wanted Gaborik gone. Plus, he had lingering shoulder issues that he went into surgery again for this year.
Plus as much as I love Dubi and AA, I believe we had other issues besides trading them for Rick Nash.
Like getting rid of Prust who was much more than justa 4th line winger.
Like replacing him with Asham or you can say Poille. Ughhh
Signing Pyatt. Terrible mistake
Just a bunch of guys with what seems to be lacking emotion. I hate it. Needing defense so we signed Hamrlik. UGHHHHH
So many bad moves.
It happened, so lets deal with it. We saved ourselves by trading Gabby for Moore and Brassard and maybe Dorsett seems solid but lets get rid of some of these no emotion players like Pyatt, Asham and whoever. And bring in some classic guys.
Idk who yet.
Edge
Kris King's Ghost
I always felt the 2012 Rangers overachieved and were an easy team to love because of their heart and soul style.
With that said, I was never sold on them as a championship contender.
The challenge with the team today is that after trading Gaborik, it's almost right back where it started from a goal scoring standpoint.
At some point, this team is going to have move one of its prized young defenseman to get some firepower up front.
With that said, I was never sold on them as a championship contender.
The challenge with the team today is that after trading Gaborik, it's almost right back where it started from a goal scoring standpoint.
At some point, this team is going to have move one of its prized young defenseman to get some firepower up front.
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