How are you feeling about Tavares these days?

[hamzarocks]

He has like 363 points in 447 games as a leaf for a 0.81 point per game average. Folks here just talk shit cause he is slow in peoples eyes and his contract blows but he is clearly “pulling his weight” whether it’s in clutch moments when he can or on the score sheet or in other facets of the game. He isn’t a generational talent like Crosby but he try’s to contribute and it’s admirable.

If he had 363 pts in 447 games as a leaf he may have been waived/traded by now

He is a fair bit higher than that

So you're saying two Tyler burtizzis is worth more than ppg Tavares (not getting first line minutes btw) who is clutch, leads by example.. that we as Leafs fans are " Paying" the price as Leafs fans? Damn dude, the only thing we're "paying" for is havimg posters like this in our fandbase that no doubt make all of us look bad when they venture out to the mains.... touch grass bro...

Your the poster who thinks Draisaitl isnt an elite player lol.

Your takes are notoriously poor and you come looking like a homer nearly 90% of the time

 

[ToneDog]

If he had 363 pts in 447 games as a leaf he may have been waived/traded by now

He is a fair bit higher than that


Your the poster who thinks Draisaitl isnt an elite player lol.

Your takes are notoriously poor and you come looking like a homer nearly 90% of the time

I've got him at 363 points in 365 games. 22 points in 31 playoff games. 1 series closing OT winner.

 

[TMLAM34]

The only thing you can really complain about Tavares is his contract. In an ideal world he’d be making 8.5 million right now but that’s unfortunately not the case.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You can't even give him credit for his good start which is about normal. The hate you have for this guy is second to none. As good a start 88 has, he is -2.

View attachment 756225

I very clearly said his start was "about normal"

Why would you quote that and then say "(y)ou can't even give him credit for his good start which is about normal"?

For the 7,834th time, I don't hate him. I don't think the signing (amount, length, or NMC) was good, but I blame Dubas for that.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

I've got him at 363 points in 365 games. 22 points in 31 playoff games. 1 series closing OT winner.

I’ll go back to bed I miscalculated so he is doing very well regardless despite a lot of shit talking he gets

 

[notDatsyuk]

He has 4 points at 5v5, which is tied with Nylander for 1st on the team (according to MoneyPuck). Or if you look at even strength in general, not exclusively 5v5, he has 6 points, again tied with Willy for 1st on the team (Matthews 3rd with 4 ES points). You’re really cherry picking to try to find some way to make him look bad.

I’ve frequently been a critic of JT’s, but he’s been playing GREAT so far this season. Have watched every game so far this year, and his excellent play is unarguable IMO. Best he’s looked in a few years, especially at ES. He’s not just a passenger to Willy, he’s been driving the play himself a tonne too.

I'm not cherry picking to make him look bad - all I said is he's producing about normal.

Yes, at the moment he and Willy are leading the team - why are you cherry picking stats to make Matty and Mitch look bad?

 

[ULF_55]

You're right.

His hot start totally makes me change the opinion I've held daily since they signed him. I no longer think $11M on a 2C cliche mumbling pacifist milquetoast for Captain is a misallocation of resources. I also don't understand anything about regression so fully expect him to finish with 150 points or so.

Nylander too for that matter.

No, Nylander's only going to be around 120 points.

Don't exaggerate.

.... of course this is all in fun I don't expect any Leafs player to be around 120 points, not even a poaching, knuckleball pitcher.

 

[notDatsyuk]

He wont be ppg by years end. He is 3M overpaid in the reg season as a 75-80 pt guy

Playoffs he falls to a low end 2C player as a 55 pt guy

A lot to prove after 5 years of being the main reason this group has failed

If he continues to play with one or the other of Mitch and Willy he may well hit 80 points again.

He is certainly not the main reason this group has failed. His signing and his contract are.

 

[ToneDog]

I very clearly said his start was "about normal"

Why would you quote that and then say "(y)ou can't even give him credit for his good start which is about normal"?

For the 7,834th time, I don't hate him. I don't think the signing (amount, length, or NMC) was good, but I blame Dubas for that.

Come on, everybody knows you are JT's biggest critic and hater of his contract. I mean even when you praise him, it seems you find a way to criticize him. Give him his due while it lasts.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You can't use the PP argument because most of his points have come at even strength, including his 2 last night, and yes appearently he did get a piece of the puck on the game winner.

Because You can't use the PP argument anymore You have now moved the goal posts and gone to this.

Just admit you hate John Tavares because you are never actually right about anything

Somebody pointed out that even strength included thing like 6v5 and 3v3 that aren't really normal situations, so I accepted their improved method. Do someone else 'moved the goalposts'.

So now for the 7,835th time - I don't hate JT.

It sometimes seems that the only argument some people have in his favour is 'you hate him, so your facts don't count'.

 

[ToneDog]

Somebody pointed out that even strength included thing like 6v5 and 3v3 that aren't really normal situations, so I accepted their improved method. Do someone else 'moved the goalposts'.

So now for the 7,835th time - I don't hate JT.

It sometimes seems that the only argument some people have in his favour is 'you hate him, so your facts don't count'.

OK you do not hate him, but clearly you are one of his two biggest critics on this board.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Come on, everybody knows you are JT's biggest critic and hater of his contract. I mean even when you praise him, it seems you find a way to criticize him. Give him his due while it lasts.

I'm actually not his biggest critic even on these boards, or even in this thread. Yes, if someone says something incorrect (about him or anyone else), I will opine.

Yes, I absolutely dislike (I don't like the word 'hate') both his signing and his contract, but I am smart enough to understand the difference.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Somebody pointed out that even strength included thing like 6v5 and 3v3 that aren't really normal situations, so I accepted their improved method. Do someone else 'moved the goalposts'.

So now for the 7,835th time - I don't hate JT.

It sometimes seems that the only argument some people have in his favour is 'you hate him, so your facts don't count'.

Even strength is even strength I don't care if it's 3 on 3, 4 on 4, 5 on 5 or even if we somehow we got to 2 on 2 or 1 on 1 it's all even strength.

6 on 5 is interesting don't know what to consider that, it's not a PP but it's not technically even strength either.

But then again maybe it is, because it would be 6 skaters and no goalie vs 5 skaters and a goalie making it 6 VS 6.

As for your last line facts are facts when they are true.

Every time you say he's a 3C you are just straight up lying and he's proving it again, and now you can't say "but PP"

 

[Minar]

one part of Tavares game that is overlooked and underated is playmaking/passing.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Even strength is even strength I don't care if it's 3 on 3, 4 on 4, 5 on 5 or even if we somehow we got to 2 on 2 or 1 on 1 it's all even strength.

6 on 5 is interesting don't know what to consider that, it's not a PP but it's not technically even strength either.

But then again maybe it is, because it would be 6 skaters and no goalie vs 5 skaters and a goalie making it 6 VS 6.

As for your last line facts are facts when they are true.

Every time you say he's a 3C you are just straight up lying and he's proving it again, and now you can't say "but PP"

Yes, I always looked at 6v5 as more like a man advantage, and never really considered how it was included in stats until someone complained about my including it (since I was using ES instead of 5v5) when talking about producing as a line. He was right - 5v5 is best when looking at 'normal' game situations.

Are you saying that the fact that he has one goal and one primary assist at 5v5 isn't true, because I posted it?

I think that my opinion that the team would be better if someone else plays 2C and he plays 3C isn't lying - it's just my opinion. Until it is seriously tried, we won't know if my opinion is right or wrong.

 

[Hellcat]

Take the top 25 point producers since JT began his current contract in 2018, and rank him against those players, he is :

• 2nd least amount of ATOI
• 23rd in points
• 1st in FO%
• 14th in Goals
• Least amount of PP ATOI
• 15th in GWG
• 13th in G/60

....but HE'S an anchor ...?

I dont disagree paying a 2nd line center $11 mil is f-ing ridiculous terrible allocation of cap for the position BUT JT is not an anchor, he is not the problem, he's lived up to his contract. It's the previous GM's inability to effectively manage the cap and assets is the issue.

That's a long winded way of saying "I'm right and you're wrong".

No its saying you live in a reality where feelings trump fact.

 

[hamzarocks]

Take the top 25 point producers since JT began his current contract in 2018, and rank him against those players, he is :

• 2nd least amount of ATOI
• 23rd in points
• 1st in FO%
• 14th in Goals
• Least amount of PP ATOI
• 15th in GWG
• 13th in G/60

....but HE'S an anchor ...?

I dont disagree paying a 2nd line center $11 mil is f-ing ridiculous terrible allocation of cap for the position BUT JT is not an anchor, he is not the problem, he's lived up to his contract. It's the previous GM's inability to effectively manage the cap and assets is the issue.



No its saying you live in a reality where feelings trump fact.

1. He gets lower ice time partially due to being unable to PK while other stars now a days play on the PK
2. His reg season production is decent enough. Would like to see maybe another 5-10 pts a year but its not the end of tbe world
3. Playoff production is absolutely unacceptable at 22 pts in 31 games as a leaf

 

[kevsh]

He's a very good hockey player, has a great shot, good along the boards, great playmaker and faceoff guy, but as a captain he's proven for about a decade (between the Isles & Leafs) that he's not the guy that can lead a team deep into the playoffs.

Or at the very least, not this team. Or probably the Isles either.
I think it's clear that a mild-mannered, monotone nice guy isn't the one that can light a fire under this group which badly needs a fire lit under them.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

I feel the same as always. He's fine and he'll give his best effort for the remainder of his contract.

He's a very good hockey player, has a great shot, good along the boards, great playmaker and faceoff guy, but as a captain he's proven for about a decade (between the Isles & Leafs) that he's not the guy that can lead a team deep into the playoffs.

Or at the very least, not this team. Or probably the Isles either.
I think it's clear that a mild-mannered, monotone nice guy isn't the one that can light a fire under this group which badly needs a fire lit under them.

If their own constant failure when it matters doesn't light a fire I can't see words having any impact at all.

 

[hotpaws]

he's been racking up points but what has he been actually creating offensively ? the answer , pretty much nothing

every assist he's had has been nothing more than a simple pass that didn't create a scoring chance or a shot on net that someone else banged in

he's benefitting from Willie being on fire to start the year and playing on a very talented pp where you can see him constantly popping out from the net front or bumper position to get a touch so he can get a nothing assist if a goal is scored

and if anyone thinks JT is even earning close to his money then Willie should be getting 15m as a ufa on his next deal . lol

 

[Hellcat]

1. He gets lower ice time partially due to being unable to PK while other stars now a days play on the PK
2. His reg season production is decent enough. Would like to see maybe another 5-10 pts a year but its not the end of tbe world
3. Playoff production is absolutely unacceptable at 22 pts in 31 games as a leaf

On point #1, your statement is partially true, he gets virtually no PK ice time (0:03 ATOI) this is a fact but when compared to his peers, the top 25 point producers since 2018, in fact most (+70%) of them are less than a minute a game on the PK. He gets the 9th least Even Strength ATOI, and the least amount of Power Play time. His lower overall ATOI is a function of him just not getting ice time. He would, no doubt, get you that 5 -10 points more a year you are looking for if he simply played more.

He's tied with McKinnon with 51 PP goals over that time span, with considerably less PP time, 4:01 vs 2:57.

Separate thought process, the +/- for FOW-FOL , Tavares is by far the best in the league, he has a +849, no other player has a +/- FO above 650 Crosby is #2 at 649.

JT this dedication is going out to you from #LeafNation

 

[Zybalto]

Kinda cool to see his ranking on the era adjusted rankings:

Goals: 37th all time
NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Goals | Hockey-Reference.com

Points: 37th all time
NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Points | Hockey-Reference.com

Gonna keep chugging along into the HoF for sure.

 

[Goose]

What’s a bit crazy to me is how he’s actually one of the top goal scorers in NHL history, his goals per game rate is actually slightly better than Rick Nash with roughly the same number of games played, and if JT plays another three to four years he may well crack 500g / Top 50 Goal Scorers of All Time.

He’s never really talked about as a goal scorer, which makes sense with Matthews around, but it’s still kind of crazy.

 

[Nooodles]

he's been racking up points but what has he been actually creating offensively ? the answer , pretty much nothing

every assist he's had has been nothing more than a simple pass that didn't create a scoring chance or a shot on net that someone else banged in

he's benefitting from Willie being on fire to start the year and playing on a very talented pp where you can see him constantly popping out from the net front or bumper position to get a touch so he can get a nothing assist if a goal is scored

and if anyone thinks JT is even earning close to his money then Willie should be getting 15m as a ufa on his next deal . lol

Another stupid post from you, no surprise.

JT literally made one of our best plays of the year so far on Willies last goal, a play that only a few players can make in this league and Nylander basically had nothing to do with, just put the puck in the open net after Tavares fooled everyone on the ice and made a perfect pass to him.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Take the top 25 point producers since JT began his current contract in 2018, and rank him against those players, he is :

• 2nd least amount of ATOI
• 23rd in points
• 1st in FO%
• 14th in Goals
• Least amount of PP ATOI
• 15th in GWG
• 13th in G/60

....but HE'S an anchor ...?

I dont disagree paying a 2nd line center $11 mil is f-ing ridiculous terrible allocation of cap for the position BUT JT is not an anchor, he is not the problem, he's lived up to his contract. It's the previous GM's inability to effectively manage the cap and assets is the issue.

There are other stats that don't look as positive, especially if we're looking at the more recent seasons.

But you're right. Beyond the fact that he doesn't seem to mesh with Nylander, he's not an anchor.

I'm not sure he's lived up to that contract, but I'm not sure anyone playing 2C could.

His contract is the problem.