How are you feeling about Tavares these days?

[lipstickjunkie]

I like him away from Willy. I think he's in his proper place now with McMann and Robertson, and on the 2nd PP unit.

 

[Raging Bull]

I mean he's not Jason Allison slow, but...........

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I feel the same as the day I heard we acquired him: I’m not sure

 

[Gabriel426]

I like him with McMann and Robbie. Both of them are more predictable and simple which suits JT's game more.

 

[BigBlu]

I feel the same as the day I heard we acquired him: I’m not sure

Same. Except I've always been sure. Too old, too slow, too expensive. Too sullen.

Big strain on the cap whose age never lined up with the ages of our better star players.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Tavares’ deal had nothing to do with what our young stars got paid but people can keep telling themselves it did. Matthews’ comp was between McDavid and Eichel, which wouldn’t have changed at all if we hadn’t signed JT. And Marner used Matthews as his comp.

Also fascinating, it’s Dubas fault he overpaid players during his tenure, but somehow also his fault when Brad Treliving does it after he’s gone. That’s idiotic

Questionable if Matthews would have made that much as an RFA if Dubas hadn't given our 2C that much, and that still doesn't justify Marner getting that much.

Regardless of the GM, if your third and (maybe) fifth best players are getting 11, how do you not give your second best player that? Idiotic, yes, but who was the idiot who overpaid both Tavares and Marner, creating that situation?

 

[authentic]

I mean he's not Jason Allison slow, but...........

But…. The league is a lot faster now so what’s the difference

 

[OddyOh]

I like him away from Willy. I think he's in his proper place now with McMann and Robertson, and on the 2nd PP unit.

This. Finally Willy is away from JT.

 

[LeafGrief]

When he lines up to take a face off, I get excited. The rest of the time I just sigh and wish there was someone else on the ice. It’s like watching Robertson, every now and then there’s a little flash of something and there’s hope, but 95% of the rest of the time it’s just meh.

Give the C to Mo when he gets back. Enough of worrying about these guys feelings.

 

[thewave]

I am now feeling like he has no feeling.

 

[Zybalto]

Production has certainly slowed this year but his D has been on point and he remains a top 10 in the league faceoff guy and good on the PP.

It would help both Tavares and Nylander to keep them together (especially Nylander).

 

[Dekes For Days]

Tavares is interesting, because every time he goes through a slump, people proclaim that he's hit the age wall and is done for, but while we're at the age where we need to start looking out for that, there doesn't really seem to be any signs of decline beyond the points. He's averaging his highest TOI/GP since 2019-2020. At 5v5, he hasn't fallen off in individual shots, scoring chances, high danger chances, expected goals, rebounds created, faceoffs, hits, shot blocks, or really anything. His line is also generating shots, chances, expected goals, etc. at the same rate. The only things that have really changed are his own shooting percentage (a staggering half of his previous career low), and his line's shooting percentage (career low by a decent amount). So it doesn't really look like age-related decline, as it would be really weird for that to only impact his conversion. Quite frankly, you'd expect that to be one of the last things to go.

Tavares’ deal had nothing to do with what our young stars got paid but people can keep telling themselves it did. Matthews’ comp was between McDavid and Eichel, which wouldn’t have changed at all if we hadn’t signed JT. And Marner used Matthews as his comp.
Also fascinating, it’s Dubas fault he overpaid players during his tenure, but somehow also his fault when Brad Treliving does it after he’s gone. That’s idiotic

It's funny, because even aside from the general absurdity of claiming a UFA as a comp for a post-ELC contract, Tavares' contract doesn't even align in the slightest with the others, while other high-end post-ELC contracts do. I think Treliving signing them to the contracts he did made people realize how wrong they were about the post-ELC contracts, but some are just so afraid to admit it that they fall back on blaming Dubas for contracts he wasn't even here for. Ironically, the premise is actually more insulting to Treliving. As if he's so inept at negotiating that he gets supposedly overpaid players and the only thing he's able to do is give them 1.6m and 4.5m raises.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Production has certainly slowed this year but his D has been on point and he remains a top 10 in the league faceoff guy and good on the PP.

It would help both Tavares and Nylander to keep them together (especially Nylander).

I think it's been apparent for quite a while that while Nylander has helped prop up Tavares' numbers, he is much better away from JT.

 

[CapspaceKiller]

He'll be washed up very shortly. Hopefully we get 60pts out of him next year... I have my doubts.

 

[thewave]

He'll be washed up very shortly. Hopefully we get 60pts out of him next year... I have my doubts.

His 60pts are the most expensive 60pts in the league. I would sooner have the cap than his 60pts or his negative impact Captaincy skills.

 

[IPS]

Tavares is interesting, because every time he goes through a slump, people proclaim that he's hit the age wall and is done for, but while we're at the age where we need to start looking out for that, there doesn't really seem to be any signs of decline beyond the points. He's averaging his highest TOI/GP since 2019-2020. At 5v5, he hasn't fallen off in individual shots, scoring chances, high danger chances, expected goals, rebounds created, faceoffs, hits, shot blocks, or really anything. His line is also generating shots, chances, expected goals, etc. at the same rate. The only things that have really changed are his own shooting percentage (a staggering half of his previous career low), and his line's shooting percentage (career low by a decent amount). So it doesn't really look like age-related decline, as it would be really weird for that to only impact his conversion. Quite frankly, you'd expect that to be one of the last things to go.

It's funny, because even aside from the general absurdity of claiming a UFA as a comp for a post-ELC contract, Tavares' contract doesn't even align in the slightest with the others, while other high-end post-ELC contracts do. I think Treliving signing them to the contracts he did made people realize how wrong they were about the post-ELC contracts, but some are just so afraid to admit it that they fall back on blaming Dubas for contracts he wasn't even here for. Ironically, the premise is actually more insulting to Treliving. As if he's so inept at negotiating that he gets supposedly overpaid players and the only thing he's able to do is give them 1.6m and 4.5m raises.

Yeah thanks but no matter how you try and put lipstick on the Dubas pig, he's still an $11M player who's currently 95th in league scoring.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah thanks but no matter how you try and put lipstick on the Dubas pig, he's still an $11M player who's currently 95th in league scoring.

If you just want to 'BUT MAH POINTZ!' it, go right ahead. The rest of us are discussing a bit deeper than that.

 

[hotpaws]

He'll be washed up very shortly. Hopefully we get 60pts out of him next year... I have my doubts.

we'll be lucky if he gets 60pts this year , he's not producing anything 5 on 5 and his pp points are down as well

this combined with is piss poor D are killing the team

Shanny and Tre need to sit him down after the season explain to him he won't be getting an extension and his role on the team next year will be as a depth player so it's best for him to waive his nmc and go to a team that has a use for him .

he's only owed 900k after his signing bonus so there should be a few teams interested especially the Yotes

 

[IPS]

If you just want to 'BUT MAH POINTZ!' it, go right ahead. The rest of us are discussing a bit deeper than that.

You can dig into it as deep as you like but you can't evade the overwhelming reality that he's an average offensive center at best at this point in time. He actually barely cracks the top 50 in C's in PPG so far this season.

Like i say, try and put lipstick on the pig all you like.

 

[IPS]

we'll be lucky if he gets 60pts this year , he's not producing anything 5 on 5 and his pp points are down as well

this combined with is piss poor D are killing the team

Shanny and Tre need to sit him down after the season explain to him he won't be getting an extension and his role on the team next year will be as a depth player so it's best for him to waive his nmc and go to a team that has a use for him .

he's only owed 900k after his signing bonus so there should be a few teams interested especially the Yotes

It pretty well entirely hinges on if Nylander goes hot again and / or the PP heats up. JT ain't really generating shit all for offense by himself nowadays.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You can dig into it as deep as you like but you can't evade the overwhelming reality that he's an average offensive center at best at this point in time.

You seem to be quite a bit off on what you think "average" is.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

I mean he's not Jason Allison slow, but...........

I loved Allison on Boston and LA at the beginning of the 2000s.

Completely random, but your post triggered the time I unwittingly met him when I worked retail a long time ago. Good guy, and hilariously imposing as well. He asked me to check inventory in the stock room for a fishing or farming video game he was looking for, and later, while I was climbing the ladder he just casually opened the door walked into the stock room, and continued to ask me more questions lol. I was just so taken aback by the sheer audacity of the man that I immediately respected him. I didn't finally realize it was him until his fiance handed me his credit card.

 

[Raging Bull]

I loved Allison on Boston and LA at the beginning of the 2000s.

Completely random, but your post triggered the time I unwittingly met him when I worked retail a long time ago. Good guy, and hilariously imposing as well. He asked me to check inventory in the stock room for a fishing or farming video game he was looking for, and later, while I was climbing the ladder he just casually opened the door walked into the stock room, and continued to ask me more questions lol. I was just so taken aback by the sheer audacity of the man that I immediately respected him. I didn't finally realize it was him until his fiance handed me his credit card.

He was one of the best playmakers I ever saw. Even in that season with Toronto when he couldn't skate, he was elite at moving the puck.

 

[Blanka]

I mean he's not Jason Allison slow, but...........

He was one of the best playmakers I ever saw. Even in that season with Toronto when he couldn't skate, he was elite at moving the puck.

I played with the guy in the MTHL. He was slower than molasses in January but had some of the best hands I'd ever seen. His hockey IQ was also excellent. All of that made for a very good hockey player.

 

[Zybalto]

I think it's been apparent for quite a while that while Nylander has helped prop up Tavares' numbers, he is much better away from JT.

It's not playing out that way so far this season though....


Nylander with Matthews/Knies:
TOI: 115:03
xGF%: 54.86
GF%: 53.61

Nylander with Tavares/Bertuzzi:
TOI: 353:39
xGF%: 60.16
GF: 57.90

Nylander away Tavares and Matthews:
TOI: 97:06
xGF%: 28.09
GF: 30.54

Tavares away from Nylander:
TOI: 267:36
xGF%: 49.45
GF%: 55.38