Social media should have nothing to do with Schilling not getting into the HOF. Ortiz does not belong in the Hall sorry ...........he cheated also and being a DH does not work in my opinion........Clemens is complicated
Midway through the 1996 season he suddenly turned the clock back 10 years.
I was told 20 years by somebody who would know that Roger chose Toronto because a certain drug was legal there.
He never failed a test yet he had no issue with his wife using steroids.
In the end his comment 'I don't give a rat's ass about the HoF' doomed him with many writers.
Schilling doomed himself on social media.
Red Sox/MLB Hot Stove Part 2: Lockout Edition - 6 games lost, 156 to go
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EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
Sorry not sorry, this is an idiotic standpoint in baseball circles. The position is an official position, and has been one for 50 years. Get over it. Not to mention its far more entertaining watching a DH vs watching some sorry ass pitcher stand there and take 3 little league quality hacks.
By your logic no AL pitcher should ever make the hall because they dont hit.
Also, no reliever should ever make the hall because they aren't real pitchers. they only throw 1 inning a game and under 75 innings a season. Better start petitioning to have Rivera taken out of the hall...
LSCII
Cup driven
Social media has zero to do with why Schilling isn't getting voted in. It's because he's a fringe guy that doesn't belong, primarily. Followed by the fact he was a dick to people all the time. His social media posts are just more proof how crappy he acts and behaves towards others, but it's not a factor. He was a jerk to a lot of the writers so they won't give him the votes.
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
Again, Schilling is not a clear-cut Hall of Famer. Never was, never will be. The consensus at the time of his retirement was that he had a shot but was no guarantee. Despite that, over time the majority of voters backed him. And had he shut his big f***ing yap last year he'd be going in with Ortiz right now.
f*** him.
f*** him.
LSCII
Cup driven
He'll get voted in by the veteran's committee and then will be all smiles and vanity on his big day. In reality, him getting in will further water down an already pathetic Hall of Mediocrity to a ridiculous level. I mean, barely 3 seasons with 20 wins screams not a hall of famer, but whatever. Even weirder is that his only 2o win seasons came after he was 34. I'm not saying he was a PED guy, but that's a curious anomaly that he got stronger and harder to hit as he aged. Very odd.
Smitty93
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LSCII
Cup driven
Pick any other stat you want, he’s not a Hall of Fame caliber player. If you are, you’re a dominant player. And his numbers overall aren’t. No Cy Young’s. No MVPs. Only an all star 6 times out of his 20 seasons. I don’t see why he belongs.
McGarnagle
Yes.
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Can't you make the case that the wins went up because he left the moribund late-90s Phillies and went to championship caliber Arizona and Boston teams?
His numbers did improve after 34, but not so dramatically that other factors (stadium, defense, bullpen support, coaching) don't sufficiently explain it. Look at his 1997 and his 2001 seasons, the raw numbers are almost the same, major difference is that his walks went down and he gave up more HRs - which strikes me as more of a coaching thing and pitching to contact. Transition from the flamethrower to the crafty veteran model. To me that seems to make more sense than PEDs.
BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
He really is though, even without bringing up his playoff performances.
His numbers are dominant...no Cy Youngs, but 3x 2nd place. Brad Park didnt have any Norris trophies, doesnt mean he isnt a HOF'er
Schillings numbers are:
HOF Monitors from Baseball Reference
Black Ink: 42 (avg HOFer = 40)
Gray Ink: 205 (avg HOFer = 185)
HOF Monitor: 175 (likely HOFer = 100)
HOF Standards: 46 (avg HOFer = 50)
Career WAR: 97.5 (avg HOFer = 73)
JAWS: 64.0 (avg HOFer = 61.4)
9x Top 10 in ERA: 2,2,4,5,7,7,9,9,10
11x Top 10 in WAR: 2,2,2,3,4,4,4,4,6,7,8
11x Top 10 in WHIP: 1,1,2,2,3,3,4,4,5,6,6
9x Top 10 in K: 1,1,2,2,3,4,5,5,10
11x Top 10 in K/BB: 1,1,1,1,1,2,4,4,5,6,9
He's 26th all time in WAR for pitchers, 15th in K and 11th in K/BB
Basically if you don't think Schilling is a hall of famer, then you also dont think Nolan Ryan is.
Both have no Cy Youngs, no MVPs, Ryan was only 8x all star in 27 seasons, they have nearly identical career WAR and Schilling has a slightly better Cy Young voting record. Difference is Ryan doesn't have Schilling's postseason resume. And the only reason Ryan has 300+ wins is because he pitched for 27 years (no exaggeration), while the only reason Schilling's win totals are so low is because he spent a decade on a dogsh*t Phillies team
McGarnagle
Yes.
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Good analysis.
It's somewhat remarkable that the Phillies finished over .500 only one time in the 1990s and Schilling posted a 101-78 record with them. And the one year they did make the WS, he was the NLCS MVP by throwing two gems against a great Braves lineup (and got no wins because Mitch Williams blew both of them for him).
To me he's on that border, but if Mussina is in I see no reason from a baseball perspective as to why Schilling isn't in. But his behavior off the field is what is keeping him out. If he could step away from the twitter account for like ten minutes, he might already be in.
BradPark22
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Ryan pitched for 27 years and still has more Ks than innings pitched. That is INSANE over a career that long. Also owns the career best batting average against, that is also insanely good over a career that long
LSCII
Cup driven
You comparing Schilling to Ryan says everything I need to know. That’s such a laughable comp I don’t even have words. Ryan was 10 times the pitcher rhat Schilling was. And talk about dominant, people couldn’t hit him.
At the end of the day it comes down to this for me: was Schilling the ace on those Diamondback teams? Nope. It was Randy Johnson. Was he the ace on Boston? Again no. That was Pedro. He was always a number 2 guy.
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
These numbers seem to prove my point that he did not end his career as a guaranteed Hall of Famer, no? He's around, slightly above, or slightly below an average Hall of Famer in almost all of them.
Exactly the type of guy who gets in with like 77% of the vote and not 97%.
Which is exactly what was going to happen before he chirped his way out of the Hall!
Smitty93
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So here's my crazy Hall of Fame voting idea:
Change the 5% minimum to stay on the ballott and remove the 10 vote max. Personally, I'd put it at 50% vote minimum. If less than half of voters can't say you're a HOFer your first year on the ballot, it feels like you aren't good enough. I say that knowing there are plenty of HOFers who'd never make it in that case, but that's why you remove the 10 vote max. I understand that's probably unreasonable, so maybe it needs to be 25%, but 5% is way too low.
Change the 5% minimum to stay on the ballott and remove the 10 vote max. Personally, I'd put it at 50% vote minimum. If less than half of voters can't say you're a HOFer your first year on the ballot, it feels like you aren't good enough. I say that knowing there are plenty of HOFers who'd never make it in that case, but that's why you remove the 10 vote max. I understand that's probably unreasonable, so maybe it needs to be 25%, but 5% is way too low.
KrejciMVP
Registered User
definitely impressive..guy was a work horse in innings pitched. He had 3 x 300k K seasons too
So he can be a Hall of Fame player one year but because he trashes the voters at the BBWAA he isn't the next? That's f***ing pathetic. That's really lame and pathetic. Whatever you want to judge about Schilling the off the field person is a different kettle of fish to the player on the diamond. And based on his numbers compared to contemporaries like Mussina, including his dominant performances in the postseason for both the Diamondbacks and the Red Sox, he should be in the Hall of Fame. Additionally, if we are going to be judging people on character for the hall of fame then why was Omar Vizquel even on the ballot at all given the number of sexual assaults that he committed? Why is Bud Selig allowed to be in the Hall after he got the league subpoenad and embarrassed by the US government for the steroids epidemic of the 90s and 2000s? Also, how do we know that there aren't many hall of fame players in Cooperstown that hold/held views that are similar or worse than Schilling? To me the morals clause of the Cooperstown ballot is a joke. None of the BBWAA voters are capable of doing anything else but judging a player's career on the field only. End of discussion.
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
He literally asked people not to vote for him and some of them respected his wishes.
Sorry you wrote all that without understanding what actually happened.
I know what happened. Just because Schilling flipped out on the BBWAA voters doesn't mean they should take that personally and change their vote as a result of his personal tirade. This should be about what Schilling did on the field. Not off it.
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
Again, he asked to be removed from the ballot and asked people not to vote for him. Enough voters respected his wishes that he cost himself the election he would have had otherwise.
If we're assigning responsibility for why Curt Schilling was not elected this year it's 100% on him and his big mouth.
I respectfully disagree. The voters shouldn't take a little outburst like Schilling had last year seriously. Also this isn't the first time they did this to Schilling, as they dipped his numbers after he got fired from ESPN for going off the handle on social media.
Mike makes the best argument here. Schilling went out of his way to not get voted into the hall through his words and actions. Yes, I DO believe his resume is good enough to justify induction, however like it or not, it IS a bit of a popularity contest, and he deliberately sabotaged himself in that regard.
As for Ortiz, I don't have a dog in that fight. I had him as a borderline HOFer and I'm fine with him getting in.
EverettMike
FIRE DON SWEENEY INTO THE SUN
Again again, you're ignoring reality because it doesn't fir your predetermined narrative.
At no point in the year following his "little outburst" did he retract his own personal wish. A nine or ten month stance (whenever new voting started) does not equate with a "little" reaction. This is what he wanted.
I thought the Hall should have obliged and removed him entirely. People should be allowed to remove themselves from consideration. Schilling would have been nominated this year if not for Curt Schilling, Curt Schilling's biggest enemy.
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