Post-Game Talk: Hot Croissant... Jets win 1-0!

[Evil Little]

Pathetic call. Randorf and, especially DeBrusk, were absolutely cheering for the Canucks. Using first names for Canucks players, accidentally letting it slip "this is a good period", before spotting the error and adding "for the Canucks", Randorf's dejected call on the goal.

Not to mention the moaning about clean hits (dear professional analysts, there's no rule against blindside hits).

I wonder how much it has to do with the Canucks be a Sportsnet regional property, vs the Jets being a TSN regional property.

You’d whine too if those calls or lack thereof didn’t go your way.

What do you mean calls?

Easy to call roughing on Chiarot--though the replay showed that a non-call was possibly correct--but if you're referring to the Scheifele hit on Boeser, you should know that 'mean hitting' is not a violation of the rulebook.

Even Kypreos knows that, despite De Brusk and Hrudy's weeping about it.

And Friedman is a writer looking for a narrative. He was always going to complain about obstruction on Pettersson, possibly as a favour to someone in the 604 area code. Needless to say, the clutching and grabbing went both ways in that game.

Okay, suspicions confirmed. I'm glad they're taking time to factor in the "real world rewards" into their calculations. These are, after all, still human beings giving it their all.

The impression that I get is that Maurice is indeed a player's coach.

A little ruthless when he feels he needs to be, but I think he wants his players to be happy.

Even the referees when it's Christmas.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

Nhl jets bias was in full effect as the change the cutoff for goalie games played to be considered league leader for save %. Criteria Seems to change everyday.

 

[Derfel]

Nhl jets bias was in full effect as the change the cutoff for goalie games played to be considered league leader for save %. Criteria Seems to change everyday.

Well, number of games played does increase as the season goes on...

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

Well, number of games played does increase as the season goes on...

I Understand this but the cutoff numbers seem to go up and then down. Seems cutoff went up by 5 games or so the last week.

 

[Derfel]

I Understand this but the cutoff numbers seem to go up and then down. Seems cutoff went up by 5 games or so the last week.

I haven't seen them go down, but then again I haven't paid very close attention to it. I think historically they move up though, likely topping out at ~22 games in the season?

I think I remember Hutchinson dropping on and off the top sv% list because of this a few years back.

 

[AlphaLackey]

Nhl jets bias was in full effect as the change the cutoff for goalie games played to be considered league leader for save %. Criteria Seems to change everyday.

I've never seen it go *down* on the league website, just always going up. The only reason Brossoit was included before but isn't now is because at one point his percentage of starts was high enough, but as he's played relatively few lately, he's slipped back down.

TBH they can just do away with it and rank them by percentile which would factor in sample size exactly They could do that for SV%, shooting percentage, FO %, basically any binary percentage stat can (and should) be treated that way, IMO

 

[mondo3]

I thought Scheifeles hit was dirty, so I’m hoping that’s more of a “one of” and not the start of a pattern

 

[Derfel]

I thought Scheifeles hit was dirty, so I’m hoping that’s more of a “one of” and not the start of a pattern

Fine line between "aggressive" and "dirty", and I'd say he stayed on the side of the former. He had opportunity to do much worse and didn't.

 

[winnipegger]

Mark Scheifele. He is the hero we deserve.

Appleton with a really nice game, he is good at closing gaps and boardwork. I can see an NHL career for this guy.

 

[Evil Little]

I thought Scheifeles hit was dirty, so I’m hoping that’s more of a “one of” and not the start of a pattern

Nasty is not dirty.

If you don't like that hit, then you should try to get the rule changed because it was completely legal.

 

[The Blue Baron]

Jets are the class of the league right now!


I have the hankering for a buttery warm Croissant.

Happy Holidays.

 

[Ducky10]

I don't remember making any mention of any retired goalies at all. Not sure why everyone feels the need to keep bringing him up?

I'm just pointing out that people were stating that there were no solid chances on Broissot, when in fact there had been a few/several. Not sure why people felt the need to make those statements, but there they are.

Still at it I see. I was one of those people, perhaps the only one, and to be accurate my mention of the Canucks not having a lot of solid chances had absolutely nothing to do with Broissot whatsoever. The context was in relation to the perception of how badly the Jets were getting outplayed, especially by using SOG as a measure. The comment was also made at some point in the 2nd period and had nothing to do with play in the 3rd.

I don't think the Canucks were all that threatening in the first two periods and you and another poster decided to make that into me discrediting Broissot, which was the furthest thing from my mind. Don't hide behind comments like "some people", if you want to refer to me, refer to me, why be coy abut it? You misinterpreted what I was saying and instead of giving any benefit of the doubt just kept pounding away at your narrative regardless of what I said in clarification. You were wrong, dead wrong.

 

[Ducky10]

Lol .Why is it unsustainable. Because garret says so. he has scored all his goals with grinders so they should put him on 4th line in favor of petan or Appleton. He won't be getting his minutes cut in half for a career pb guy or a raw rookie.

It's pretty much been established that what makes that line tick is the combination of Lowry- Copp and Lowry- Perreault. Tanev is the passenger on that line and is the recipient of them driving play, perhaps a more talented offensive player in his place would score at an even higher rate, as well as contribute more to the overall offensive output of the line as a whole.

Tanev has his strengths, driving offense isn't one of them.

 

[Ducky10]

Jets were most certainly tired and understandably so, but the Canucks parking the bus in the middle of the ice all night made it extra difficult on the Jets considering their obvious fatigue. I thought the 4th line had more jump than any other line from that perspective. I know they're not going to be the guys you ride in a tight game but a little more ice could have been of benefit.

 

[ffh]

It's pretty much been established that what makes that line tick is the combination of Lowry- Copp and Lowry- Perreault. Tanev is the passenger on that line and is the recipient of them driving play, perhaps a more talented offensive player in his place would score at an even higher rate, as well as contribute more to the overall offensive output of the line as a whole.

Tanev has his strengths, driving offense isn't one of them.

No it hasnt been established. Especially by the facts not even close. And the facts are Tanev is our best scorer on the bottom 6. And what I was responding to was a post that said Tanev should be replaced now on that line with Perreault and roslovic with either Appleton or petan because our best bottom 6 scorer on the team who plays on 3rd line now isn't offensive enough. But a career pb guy or a raw rookie would be a better choice to score more and handle twice the minutes they are currently getting.

 

[GNP]

I thought the Canucks played well, and had the edge in play. The Jet's were outshot something like 40- 23, so that should tell you something. They had some really good scoring chances, but the Jet's did as well. ( just not as many IMO)

The difference was that Brossoit was "unbeatable" and made some stellar saves. It seemed like the Jet's couldn't find their rhythm, but kept on pushing, and emptied the tank after a long road trip. That's how great teams win. I got the feeling as I was watching the game, that we would not get scored on --same feeling I had when Helle was hot last year.

I'm so very impressed with this Brossoit guy -- it will be interesting to see what his upper limit is ?? He could become one of the best Goaltenders in the NHL ?? I know it's very early in the game, to make a call on that -- but he sure looks "impressive."

Brossoit won that game for us !!!

 

[Eyeseeing]

Interesting read.
I missed the game completely
A triple rye made me sleepy .....
Hope you all have a great holiday break
See ya Thursday

 

[Derfel]

Nasty is not dirty.

If you don't like that hit, then you should try to get the rule changed because it was completely legal.

Exactly - hockey is a physical sport. That was 100% within the rules.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

You just may have well nailed a 3/4 inch think - 4/8 piece of plywood to the Goalposts, as that's how confident I felt that nothing was going to get by Brossoit. I had that same feeling with Helle last year, but not this year, although he's getting better.

The question is -- "how good is Brossoit" ?? could we have the next Martin Brodeur here ?? It sure looks like this guy is an elite talent Goaltender. He is very fast on his side to side lateral movement, and plays the angles perfectly, and has a lightning fast glove hand. He also works out all the time, and keeps his fitness level very high,so he has a very high work ethic. Maybe Laine should work out with him.

So, how much do we play him, to find out how good he is, over the longer term? I'd say you go with a rotation type of thing, where you play one Goalie, until he starts letting in soft goals, and then you give the other Goalie his turn. This competition will also bring out the best in the 2 Goaltenders.

You may also want to consider trading either Goalie for a top notch center ice man to play as a 2nd line center. The Flyers need a Goalie, and may part with a Nolan Patrick so they can keep the puck out of their net. You wouldn't want to do this, until Brossoit proves himself over a longer period.

All in all --it's a real nice problem to have, and I don't think I've seen a better performance from any NHL Goaltender this year. It will be interesting to see what the Jets will do ?? You never know what could happen here ??

Note - in the "long run" - we can only protect 1 Goaltender in the expansion draft when Seattle comes in, so I'd like to see full value received for Brossoit.

As I've said before -- "he's the real deal." -- I fully believe that.

Brossoit basically won that game for us !!! - fantastic.

Whoah whoah... slow down on the Brodeur talk.
Brossoit is playing really well for us and looked superb for us last night.
The Canucks also flat out missed the net on some of their best chances.

TRADING A GOALIE FOR A CENTER

Based on everything we know goalies generally don't hold that kind of trade value.
A goalie would be an add on (most likely) in a deal like that.
NOLAN PATRICK????
Kid only has 11pts playing big minutes for the Flyers.
He's done NOTHING to show that he is anywhere near Little's level of play in our top 6.
His game is closer to Rolsovic's then it is a Top 6 Center.
Give Patrick the same ice time and opportunity as Roslovic and I doubt he even has the 7 points that Jack has.

SEATTLE

This is a ways off. If Brossoit continues to play well he's likely gone before then anyways.
He's only signed to the end of this season.
It will be difficult for the Jets to re-sign him to a deal.
With Hellebuyck making starters money that back up spot needs to stay close to league minimum. The expansion draft won't be why we lose him... the salary cap will be the reason for that.

It would take an epic event to change that. i.e. we trade Hellebuyck to make Brossoit our starter and that seems very unlikely. Helle would have to struggle badly and lose the net to Bro-swat and then Mr Croissant would need to go on an epic run that gets us to the Cup final etc...

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Watched the replay of the Chiarot "high stick"

I'm not as convinced.

 

[GNP]

Whoah whoah... slow down on the Brodeur talk.
Brossoit is playing really well for us and looked superb for us last night.
The Canucks also flat out missed the net on some of their best chances.

TRADING A GOALIE FOR A CENTER

Based on everything we know goalies generally don't hold that kind of trade value.
A goalie would be an add on (most likely) in a deal like that.
NOLAN PATRICK????
Kid only has 11pts playing big minutes for the Flyers.
He's done NOTHING to show that he is anywhere near Little's level to play in our top 6.
His game is closer to Rolsovic's then it is a Top 6 Center.
Give Patrick the same ice time and opportunity as Roslovic and I doubt he even has the 7 points that Jack has.

SEATTLE

This is a ways off. If Brossoit continues to play well he's likely gone before then anyways.
He's only signed to the end of this season.
It will be difficult for the Jets to re-sign him to a deal.
With Hellebuyck making starters money that back up spot needs to stay close to league minimum. The expansion draft won't be why we lose him... the salary cap will be the reason for that.

It would take an epic event to change that. i.e. we trade Hellebuyck to make Brossoit our starter and that seems very unlikely. Helle would have to struggle badly and lose the net to Bro-swat and then Mr Croissant would need to go on an epic run that gets us to the Cup final etc...

______________________________________________________

Hey there Zhamnov --I do agree with a lot of the things you say in your post, and your a "great" poster on here. I was just trying to illustrate how Brossoit can be useful to us, or Helle for that matter, by way of a trade. At this point, I'm starting to believe this Brossoit may be a little bit better than Helle, or he may drop off like Hutchison did, and we may just have an average backup Goaltender. We'd have to see "the long road" before making any kind of decisions like that -- "for sure" Right now, we're only looking at short term results with Brossoit.

As you say -- Patrick so far has shown nothing, but he's still very young and developing. Also Brossoit has still yet to prove himself over the long term --so this would be a "blind trade" and would not happen at this time. I was just using this as more of an example -- unproven for unproven.

Although Goalies are not valued the same way centers and wingers are -- they really should be, because to have a championship type of team, you really need one. The Goaltender in Montreal makes $ 10 mil per year -- so that shows you the value of a Goaltender to teams. I forget the Goalies name in Montreal right now -- I believe it's Carey Price.

What I am saying --is you have to keep a very open mind when your running a team. If this Brossoit continually posts high percentage save numbers, then we'd have 2 great Goaltenders, and could part with one of them for a position we're a little weak at --like a 2nd line center. This will all have to be determined over a period of time with Brossoit, so his "trade value" can be established, then a trade could be made.

It is also possible that Brossoit can overtake Helle for the # 1 Goalie position with the Jets--and that will depend on Helle's play. What I'm saying here, is that Chevy got a steal in Brossoit --and it may turn out to be a lot bigger than anyone expected, and this could open a door for a great opportunity.

 

[raideralex99]

At its current pace Hellebuyck will start 60 Games and Brossoit 21. With his current play is that a good balance? I know Connor is our guy but I believe we need to uptick Brossoit usage a bit from 26%. Thoughts?

Don't forget Brossoit only signed a one year contract ... the more he plays the bigger the next contract will be.

 

[Scheifele55]

The hit by Chiarot should have been called a penalty. He made contact with the players head even if it is argued to be gloves. Last nights game definitely had a lot of calls that went the Jets way.

 

[Tommigun]

The hit by Chiarot should have been called a penalty. He made contact with the players head even if it is argued to be gloves. Last nights game definitely had a lot of calls that went the Jets way.

Yeah that was a penalty. Glad the calls went our way.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

______________________________________________________

Hey there Zhamnov --I do agree with a lot of the things you say in your post, and your a "great" poster on here. I was just trying to illustrate how Brossoit can be useful to us, or Helle for that matter, by way of a trade. At this point, I'm starting to believe this Brossoit may be a little bit better than Helle, or he may drop off like Hutchison did, and we may just have an average backup Goaltender. We'd have to see "the long road" before making any kind of decisions like that -- "for sure" Right now, we're only looking at short term results with Brossoit.

As you say -- Patrick so far has shown nothing, but he's still very young and developing. Also Brossoit has still yet to prove himself over the long term --so this would be a "blind trade" and would not happen at this time. I was just using this as more of an example -- unproven for unproven.

Although Goalies are not valued the same way centers and wingers are -- they really should be, because to have a championship type of team, you really need one. The Goaltender in Montreal makes $ 10 mil per year -- so that shows you the value of a Goaltender to teams. I forget the Goalies name in Montreal right now -- I believe it's Carey Price.

What I am saying --is you have to keep a very open mind when your running a team. If this Brossoit continually posts high percentage save numbers, then we'd have 2 great Goaltenders, and could part with one of them for a position we're a little weak at --like a 2nd line center. This will all have to be determined over a period of time with Brossoit, so his "trade value" can be established, then a trade could be made.

It is also possible that Brossoit can overtake Helle for the # 1 Goalie position with the Jets--and that will depend on Helle's play. What I'm saying here, is that Chevy got a steal in Brossoit --and it may turn out to be a lot bigger than anyone expected, and this could open a door for a great opportunity.

We definitely got a steal in Brossoit.
Philly would never trade Patrick for a goalie especially one like Brossoit who has as much or more negative stats in the NHL as he does positive ones.
Carey Price is not a normal goalie and even he makes that price tag look like a bad idea.

Outsiders may look at his stats and say with a bad team in Edmonton he was a bad goalie.
With a good team in Winnipeg he is a good goalie.
That's an oversimplification but a point of reference.
With that in mind... does a bad Philly team think he would be good enough for them?

I think if you're trying to win the Cup this year (as we are) then we need two good goalies. Hellebuyck could get hurt or go cold in the playoffs. You'll want to have a top back up around for just that reason.

The drop off in our goalie depth is like the grand canyon compared to the difference in our centers. On paper if you get a center = to or better then Bryan Little you essentially create a 2nd line that would be in our "4" slot. With everyone healthy you would potentially have Perreault / Little and Roslovic (MP/ New center / Roslovic) as a 4th line.

That immediately changes the dynamic of our TOI distribution.
Not only does that create mismatch nightmares for other teams it should help to reduce the amount of time that Scheif and Wheeler are on the ice gassed.
They could be just as effective with slightly less time on ice but more juice to spend each shift.

My two cents is that we keep LB to help Helle and the Jets make a run this year.
If we are bringing in another center the price of acquisition will be more (and different) then our back up goalie.

We can't afford to trade him and his value wouldn't get us the player we are looking for anyways.