Speculation: Hossa recapture penalty

[ColdSteel2]

I'll disagree on the general theory. All the "penalty" does is ensure that the amount that the player is paid, is the total amount of cap hit. All of the teams and players who agreed to these contracts assured the NHL that the players expected to play out the entire term of the contract. The "penalty" just guarantees that total cash paid = total cap hit, which isn't really a penalty IMO.

Right, that is true. I just really don't think they would have signed him that long in that case. We could have shaved off a couple of years and paid him an extra 400-500K a year which only would have been a concern in 2010-11 where we could have easily signed a backup goalie for 550-700K alternatively to Turco at 1.3M to make him fit.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Right, that is true. I just really don't think they would have signed him that long in that case. We could have shaved off a couple of years and paid him an extra 400-500K a year which only would have been a concern in 2010-11 where we could have easily signed a backup goalie for 550-700K alternatively to Turco at 1.3M to make him fit.

I do agree that it's a little "unfair" to change the rules after the fact, but from my perspective, the organizations which signed those deals were knowingly "back-dooring" the salary cap. The NHL let teams know it didn't like those deals, and the teams kept doing them. At the end of the day, the Hawks will have to live with the deal they signed.

 

[ColdSteel2]

The sad commentary in all of this is the fact that the NHL didn't realize this potential circumvention long before it ever happened. I mean, seriously. They should have had a think tank of people trying to figure out how to break their own rules and this one should have come up on the first day before lunch.

 

[zytz]

The sad commentary in all of this is the fact that the NHL didn't realize this potential circumvention long before it ever happened. I mean, seriously. They should have had a think tank of people trying to figure out how to break their own rules and this one should have come up on the first day before lunch.

what world do you live in where the NHL is making so much money that they employ a think tank?

 

[hawksfan50]

But while Hossa had a good season and first 2 rounds...he ran out of gas and got worse as the third round progressed---already signs of aging and diminishing returns and impact--a -5 vs. LA and no points I believe--for sure no goals...such tapering off and actual negative impact could become a greater trend from him now at age 35 ...and so the albatross re-capture prevents doing anything about this..will need to move him down lines and reduce minutes to preserve his energy as he ages..the best years may already be a thing of the past...so the choice soon may be a cap hit over $5 million to keep him or upto over $4million depending on when he goes and the diff to another 4th liner at that point..so we may be stuck with $3-5 million for a 4th liner position either him or another guy plus the re-capture cost on cap for Hossa retiring..Maybe they claim he can no longer play because concussions slowed his game down and so put him on LTIR ...but Rocky still would have to pay him...and will not be pleased..my question is--due to his lousy showing in the WC FINAL--have we ALREADY seen the start of diminished returns on HOSSA...COMMENT AWAY...

 

[stahl]

But while Hossa had a good season and first 2 rounds...he ran out of gas and got worse as the third round progressed---already signs of aging and diminishing returns and impact--a -5 vs. LA and no points I believe--for sure no goals...such tapering off and actual negative impact could become a greater trend from him now at age 35 ...and so the albatross re-capture prevents doing anything about this..will need to move him down lines and reduce minutes to preserve his energy as he ages..the best years may already be a thing of the past...so the choice soon may be a cap hit over $5 million to keep him or upto over $4million depending on when he goes and the diff to another 4th liner at that point..so we may be stuck with $3-5 million for a 4th liner position either him or another guy plus the re-capture cost on cap for Hossa retiring..Maybe they claim he can no longer play because concussions slowed his game down and so put him on LTIR ...but Rocky still would have to pay him...and will not be pleased..my question is--due to his lousy showing in the WC FINAL--have we ALREADY seen the start of diminished returns on HOSSA...COMMENT AWAY...

http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8466148

Check out his stat lines in the playoffs when he was 29,30, 34 and 35. Notice a trend?

He isn't declining.

 

[BigBootsie]

Some day everything I have ever said about Bowman and the Hawks will make sense to everyone. And I can tell you what day that will be. The day we make the big trade and all of the Cups that come after it and because of it or the day he is fired.

So you're a hockey prophet because one of two things will happen to Bowman: He will acquire more rings with the Hawks, or he will not.

**** man how did we not see it coming. We should have listened to you!

 

[chicagoskycam]

The sad commentary in all of this is the fact that the NHL didn't realize this potential circumvention long before it ever happened. I mean, seriously. They should have had a think tank of people trying to figure out how to break their own rules and this one should have come up on the first day before lunch.

The NHL always had the power to deny contracts that were obvious cap circumvention and did so. Problem is that was a judgment call and they closed loop holes in the last CBA.

No reason speculating anything until it actually happens.

 

[Sweetpotato]

Oiler fan coming in peace.

I was thinking this today figured there'd be a thread.

Hossa would be THE best role model for Yakupov I was wondering would he be available? Does he have a no trade?

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Oiler fan coming in peace.

I was thinking this today figured there'd be a thread.

Hossa would be THE best role model for Yakupov I was wondering would he be available? Does he have a no trade?

Not to my knowledge.

...but keep in mind that despite Hossa's age, he's still very productive for the Hawks...and if they traded him to the Oilers and he retired early, the Hawks would still be stuck with the recapture.

...what is Edmonton going to give Chicago that would make the trade worthwhile - and PLEASE don't include Gagner in any response you give.

 

[Bubba88]

Hossa is not a guy we should worry about.

 

[Sweetpotato]

Not to my knowledge.

...but keep in mind that despite Hossa's age, he's still very productive for the Hawks...and if they traded him to the Oilers and he retired early, the Hawks would still be stuck with the recapture.

...what is Edmonton going to give Chicago that would make the trade worthwhile - and PLEASE don't include Gagner in any response you give.

I was under the impression the recapture applies to the team they currently play for, my apologies,. now that I think about it I remember a similar situation with Luongo and Van.

 

[slappipappi]

Any elite team in the NHL will continually run into cap problems.

It's the price to pay for having so many great players.

Bowman has done a masterful job managing an almost impossible cap situation year by year.

 

[Realm]

Ok, I understand the recapture penalties if he retires, also I know the penalties if they buy him out but what about this. Lets say the Hossa wants to retire, he doesnt want to screw the Hawks so he lets them know to see what they can do. Would this work? Lets say he has 4 years left all at 1 million each and the Blackhawks trade him to say Arizona. Arizona buys him out, So they only pay about $3 million cash out but would they get the cap hit of aprox 4.5 million a year and the Blackhawks get no penalties? A cap floor team might like this, they only pay $750K but get $4.5 million cap charges. Is this allowed or not? Seems like it would benefit both teams.

 

[JaegerDice]

Ok, I understand the recapture penalties if he retires, also I know the penalties if they buy him out but what about this. Lets say the Hossa wants to retire, he doesnt want to screw the Hawks so he lets them know to see what they can do. Would this work? Lets say he has 4 years left all at 1 million each and the Blackhawks trade him to say Arizona. Arizona buys him out, So they only pay about $3 million cash out but would they get the cap hit of aprox 4.5 million a year and the Blackhawks get no penalties? A cap floor team might like this, they only pay $750K but get $4.5 million cap charges. Is this allowed or not? Seems like it would benefit both teams.

I mean, it would basically be collusion, and Arizona is a budget team, so I don't know why they would want to pay real money to have a player not play for them.

 

[CourtneyDagger50]

Hawks are on the hook for the recapture I believe

 

[piteus]

Hawks are on the hook for the recapture I believe

How does the recapture work if Hossa gets drafted by an expansion team? Is everything reset?

 

[Realm]

Hawks are on the hook for the recapture I believe

How is there recapture penalties if he is bought out?

 

[Realm]

I mean, it would basically be collusion, and Arizona is a budget team, so I don't know why they would want to pay real money to have a player not play for them.

and the Coyotes trading for Pronger wasnt?

 

[JaegerDice]

How does the recapture work if Hossa gets drafted by an expansion team? Is everything reset?

Don't know, don't think the rules are set for that situation yet.

Hell, nobody seems to even know if NMC clauses protect players from being entered into an expansion draft.

 

[Realm]

I mean, it would basically be collusion, and Arizona is a budget team, so I don't know why they would want to pay real money to have a player not play for them.

Exact reason they would, the get to the cap floor by paying only $750K money for a 4.5 million cap count.

 

[Realm]

How does the recapture work if Hossa gets drafted by an expansion team? Is everything reset?

I am guessing a NMC would make him not elgible for being picked by an expansion team, he would have to be protected.

 

[JaegerDice]

and the Coyotes trading for Pronger wasnt?

Fair point, I forgot about that.

 

[Realm]

Ok, I am going to take it to the main boards to see what is said.

 

[Realm]

Fair point, I forgot about that.

Also the Lecavalier deal to the Kings with agreement he retires after the season.