Post-Game Talk: Holzer for Norris. Leafs lose 3-1 to PIT.

[Pi]

I expected a dog fight...but when you're in a position to capitalize, a dog fight should not ensue.

24 GP 30 points.
28 GP 31 points.

Even if we had won TWO games. 28 P 34 points. We are comfortably sitting @ 5th.

Every game against teams that are 5th-9th become the biggest games of the season. If they want to get into the playoffs, Carlyle needs to get his **** together and get Holzer out of the line up.

If they want to keep Holzer, fine by me. Just scratch Phaneuf then and tank, because playing Holzer in it self is tanking in disguise.

Just when I thought we finally have a coach with brains..this happens.

 

[leafers]

I expected a dog fight...but when you're in a position to capitalize, a dog fight should not ensue.

24 GP 30 points.
28 GP 31 points.

Even if we had won TWO games. 28 P 34 points. We are comfortably sitting @ 5th.

I hear you, but a slump is a slump. We either learn from it and get better, or collapse.

We'll see what this team is made of soon. We will turn it around this Saturday, ill even put my v-cash where my mouth is

 

[Yosho]

They didn't let off the gas. They made defensive errors(by a rookie) and the pens capitilized.

There is alot of good stuff to take away from this game, even though they lost this was perhaps the best defensive game of the season and they played solid for more or less 60 minutes.

I like the fact that they give the Pens a match everytime they play. They are a good measuring stock and we hold up pretty well against them. That is a good sign considering this team is far from a finished product and will keep getting better each year.

They absolutely did. They stopped fore-checking at the 10:00 mark of the 3rd period to play more defensively with a 1-0 lead. It was damn obvious - sending one player after the puck and sitting everyone else at their own blueline. They would continuously dump the puck in, but follow it up with no offensive pressure allowing the Penguins to do as they please. It was only a matter of time.

Giving easy possession to the most skilled offense in the league is just illogical.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Felt bad for Komarov.

He deserved to get a nice goal like that - Too bad he didnt bury it.

Just sent flashes over to his play in Russia. He woulda been the 1st star and doing the hand wave with the crowd.

Still lots of hockey.

 

[gtforepro]

Felt bad for Komarov.

He deserved to get a nice goal like that - Too bad he didnt bury it.

Just sent flashes over to his play in Russia. He woulda been the 1st star and doing the hand wave with the crowd.

Still lots of hockey.

That would have been EPIC! I was totally thinking about the wave with the crowd when he was coming in on Fleury. Sucked to lose, but still a good game.

 

[SteveV*]

Komorov would be such a stud if he had decent hands.

 

[Darylman]

My God.

Holzer is not an NHL defender. Scrivens ABSOLUTELY could not see that second shot, who the hell goes down to block five feet away from the puck at the hash marks? BRUTAL.

 

[jmart21]

My God.

Holzer is not an NHL defender. Scrivens ABSOLUTELY could not see that second shot, who the hell goes down to block five feet away from the puck at the hash marks? BRUTAL.

Almost as brutal as the over 4 leaf skaters doin nothing and jut watching. JVR looked like Rick Nash on that play.

 

[Lilou]

Was holzer playing against the top line like in previous games? Damn Leafs are making people turn on him. Put him in a role where he can succeed and thats the lower pairings. Hopefully liles play opened carlyles eyes and gardiner is in on sat.

 

[PlietscherDassel]

I agree that Holzer shouldnt be playing big minutes against the opponents top players but blaming him for the loss is rediculous.
And its pretty obvious that everyone here claiming Gardiner is the solution to all our problems didnt watch a single AHL game. Gardiner is a very talented young d that still needs to improve some aspects of his game. The AHL is a great place to do so. Worked for Kadri didnt it? Further, his agents bull....certainly didnt help to get called up. Dont get me wrong, i would love to see Gardiner back with the Leafs but i understand why they kept him with the Marlies so far, and even if they call him up it wouldnt be wise to let him play 20+ minutes with Dion right away.

Our big problem is that we have no one to play with Dion against the leagues best players. It should be Gunnar but he is not the old Gunnar right now. He made some terrible plays against the Pens but he doesnt get any blame because it didnt happen against the Crosby line.
Fraser and Franson will get exactly the same amount of crtiticism that Holzer gets (as well as before him Kostka). None of these guys are suited for that role. Its funny how everyone would love Holzer and hate Fraser right now if Carlyle would have used them the other way around.
I would give Liles a shot at it to prove that it was a mistake to keep him in the press box for quite some time. But im not overly optimistic that it will work.

 

[The Legend]

Im glad the leafs are finally competitive. That said NOW is the time to trade for quality players and picks

And what do you propose we trade for these "quality players and picks"?

 

[rwb]

Our big problem is that we have no one to play with Dion against the leagues best players. It should be Gunnar but he is not the old Gunnar right now. He made some terrible plays against the Pens but he doesnt get any blame because it didnt happen against the Crosby line.
Fraser and Franson will get exactly the same amount of crtiticism that Holzer gets (as well as before him Kostka). None of these guys are suited for that role. Its funny how everyone would love Holzer and hate Fraser right now if Carlyle would have used them the other way around.
I would give Liles a shot at it to prove that it was a mistake to keep him in the press box for quite some time. But im not overly optimistic that it will work.

Agreed 100%

Holzer should not be in this role because he is simply not ready or suited for it. But who do you play? I doubt Liles works because then you have 2 guys who are both not rocks in their own zone and that'll be just as bad as it is now. Komisarek? Maybe, but his lack of foot speed and play with the puck are worse than Holzer at this point.

I'd give Franson a shot and see what he can do with the increased minutes for a bit. Might not be ideal, but somebody has to play with Dion, and I like Franson there better than the other options at this point.

Although a healthy Gunnarson would be a boon to this organization's defensive ability.

 

[ULF_55]

They absolutely did. They stopped fore-checking at the 10:00 mark of the 3rd period to play more defensively with a 1-0 lead. It was damn obvious - sending one player after the puck and sitting everyone else at their own blueline. They would continuously dump the puck in, but follow it up with no offensive pressure allowing the Penguins to do as they please. It was only a matter of time.

Giving easy possession to the most skilled offense in the league is just illogical.

I thought they stopped working, especially the forwards.

Funny thing was Franson's shot was knocked out of the air and then cleared into the open net. Fate said no!

Couldn't even get a shot through to the keeper on that play.

On the winner Bozak took the guy along the boards Kessel skated around covering no one and van Riemsdyk is coasting back into the zone. Holzer had picked up the man driving the net, and then tried to get back out to the deep slot to block the shot.


Goal is on video at NHL.com check out where the forwards are. Watch the entire play not just the shot on net.

 

[Clark4Ever]

Last night really stung. It's a shame because I thought the Leafs were the better team overall and played a nearly flawless game for 53 minutes.

If Carlyle doesn't replace Holzer in the lineup now, I think his judgement can definitely be brought into question. The kid has no business playing on a top defence pairing in the NHL.

 

[ULF_55]

When you score 1 goal you have to be perfect defensively.

Leafs powerplay is worse than last year, but their PK went from 28th. to 6th. right now.

PK Players SH TOI/g ranked (20+ games):

1 Jay McClement
2 Dion Phaneuf
3 Korbinian Holzer
4 Carl Gunnarsson
5 Nikolai Kulemin

 

[Mr Knies Guy]

and this is why u tank and get top talent

Just like always with this **** team its too god damn late to tank.

 

[ACC1224]

No doubt Holzer is way over his head playing top minutes but what's also becoming a concern is the lack of secondary scoring.

 

[Will Hunting]

Pens fan coming in peace,

Felt extremely bad for you guys.. You were the better team and definitely didn´t deserve that outcome. For some reason, we are having trouble against the Leafs everytime.. You limited our chances like no other team so far this season, that was one of the best defensive efforts I´ve seen against us all year. Easily could´ve been 2-0 or 3-0 at some point and the game would be almost over.

We were just lucky we had Fleury and that 1st line magic. Again.

I wanted at least a point for you, I´m not extremely happy that the Pens actually helped their Atlantic rivals in PO rallies. Hopefully, you guys will keep the play like this and points will come. I just want you in the playoffs rather than our rivals, so good luck the rest of the year!

 

[egd27]

Kadri no points in the past 3 games.

Time to send him back down or ship him out. If he's not producing points, he's of no use.

 

[stakesishigh]

Pens fan coming in peace

You guys have been surprisingly nice to us this season, thanks for the kind words and good luck the rest of the way.

 

[egd27]

I agree that Holzer shouldnt be playing big minutes against the opponents top players but blaming him for the loss is rediculous.
And its pretty obvious that everyone here claiming Gardiner is the solution to all our problems didnt watch a single AHL game. Gardiner is a very talented young d that still needs to improve some aspects of his game. The AHL is a great place to do so. Worked for Kadri didnt it? Further, his agents bull....certainly didnt help to get called up. Dont get me wrong, i would love to see Gardiner back with the Leafs but i understand why they kept him with the Marlies so far, and even if they call him up it wouldnt be wise to let him play 20+ minutes with Dion right away.

Our big problem is that we have no one to play with Dion against the leagues best players. It should be Gunnar but he is not the old Gunnar right now. He made some terrible plays against the Pens but he doesnt get any blame because it didnt happen against the Crosby line.
Fraser and Franson will get exactly the same amount of crtiticism that Holzer gets (as well as before him Kostka). None of these guys are suited for that role. Its funny how everyone would love Holzer and hate Fraser right now if Carlyle would have used them the other way around.
I would give Liles a shot at it to prove that it was a mistake to keep him in the press box for quite some time. But im not overly optimistic that it will work.

Nice logical post.

 

[ULF_55]

Time to send him back down or ship him out. If he's not producing points, he's of no use.

Yep, a shooting star that has gone dull.

Time to trade him.

Kadri for Bozak

 

[Sypher04]

Can we stop attributing this loss to the Leafs not getting a bounce. They got theirs, the team just lacked execution. Good teams make their own luck.

 

[Stephen]

Was holzer playing against the top line like in previous games? Damn Leafs are making people turn on him. Put him in a role where he can succeed and thats the lower pairings. Hopefully liles play opened carlyles eyes and gardiner is in on sat.

Like I said, Holzer should play about 10-12 minutes a night and none after the 5 minute mark of the third. He's a rookie with a lack of skill and experience, what are you expecting?

 

[Ash35]

Did Neal play last night? Talk about being invisible without Malkin.