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Holl or Dermott

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Who do the Leafs expose?

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    155
ToneDog said:
Age and skating ability might play into it as well for Dermy. Dermy also LHD and was never paired with Muzzin or played much on the RS in order to battle Holl for his spot. I keep the younger kid who is the much better skater and still has some upside.
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By signing him it is a done deal with 0.5M AAV saved per that helps a bit too .. Holl won;t get picked up by Seattle though as he is nothoing more than a 6/7th D at best .. pretty sure now they will take Kerfoot
 
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Dermotts next step was supposed to be 2 years ago. We are still waiting on an nhl top 4 defencemen. He wasn’t even cracking the roster at points of our season and didn’t start for the playoffs. I don’t see what others see in him.

His best offensive zone move is a cross seam pass to Matthews into his feet which results in a turnover. He doesn’t know offence at all, he dominates bottom pairing competition.

I’d love to replace holl as he’s a fraud top 4 defender, but at 2 m, I don’t see an upgrade unless we double the cap hit.

id rather let both go/ trade and run:

rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Liljegren
Sandin - Bogosian
Sign #7

might hurt us for a year, but long term we have to try sandin and Liljegren out, or else that’s another 2 1st round picks that are wastes
 
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JT AM da real deal said:
By signing him it is a done deal with 0.5M AAV saved per that helps a bit too .. Holl won;t get picked up by Seattle though as he is nothoing more than a 6/7th D at best .. pretty sure now they will take Kerfoot
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Agreed. If the goal is for Seattle to take Kerfoot, then you expose Holl. If you want to keep Kerfoot, then you expose Dermott IMO.
 
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I'd rather lose either one instead of Kerfoot. The forward group is really thin if Kerf is gone.
 
jaric1862 said:
Why is this still a question? One guy averaged over 21 minutes, paying against the other teams top lines and the other was heavily sheltered, averaging just over 13 minutes. These guys are not the same.
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lol Holl was a major part to the PK that was 24th in the league, the worst since the 14-15 season. In fact, since he became a PK'er, the Leafs PK has declined in 2 straight seasons now. Holl only played that much because the Leafs didn't have anyone ready to surpass him , but it was hardly because he was blowing away the rest of the competition. You don't throw away a 24 year old defencemen, the Leafs have done this thing before and its bitten them. Holl isn't going to get any better because the league is only getting faster which suits Dermott far more
 
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ToneDog said:
Age and skating ability might play into it as well for Dermy. Dermy also LHD and was never paired with Muzzin or played much on the RS in order to battle Holl for his spot. I keep the younger kid who is the much better skater and still has some upside.
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Upside and skating are great, but he has to actually do something with his tools to take the next step at some point. As it stands, Holl is the better player today. I don't think it makes sense to ditch our #4 defenseman to try the #7 out in the role. We've been begging Dermott to sink or swim for three years and he hasn't swam yet. I've always liked him as a player, my post history and the post you quoted will attest to as much. I see the top4 upside in him. But Holl is the top4 player today, I don't think it makes sense to gamble that Dermott will be as good to save 500k. If Holl cost 4m, I'd pick Dermott. If Dermott still looked like he had top pairing upside, or was still just 21, I'd pick Dermott. But we're waiting to see if he can even establish himself as a #4. We're trying to compete, so I say we keep the better player.
 
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Why would Dermott re-sign without the promise that he will be protected? Dubas will expose Holl.

P.S. Personally I've lost patience with Dermott. He's turned into a marginal defender. He's too frantic and loose-bodied. He's never filled out. At least he isn't making ridiculous money.
 
LeafGrief said:
Upside and skating are great, but he has to actually do something with his tools to take the next step at some point. As it stands, Holl is the better player today. I don't think it makes sense to ditch our #4 defenseman to try the #7 out in the role. We've been begging Dermott to sink or swim for three years and he hasn't swam yet. I've always liked him as a player, my post history and the post you quoted will attest to as much. I see the top4 upside in him. But Holl is the top4 player today, I don't think it makes sense to gamble that Dermott will be as good to save 500k. If Holl cost 4m, I'd pick Dermott. If Dermott still looked like he had top pairing upside, or was still just 21, I'd pick Dermott. But we're waiting to see if he can even establish himself as a #4. We're trying to compete, so I say we keep the better player.
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You make a lot of sense but IMO as things stand we are not close to seriously competing. However Leafs' management have their own beliefs. Time will tell who is right but I'd be willing to bet I am.
 
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Unpopular opinion, but I foresee a possibility of Muzzin being the one left unprotected. Since Muzzin has got to Toronto, we have seen a noticeable decrease in his speed and mobility every season. And with the style he plays, he is just going to continue in that direction. For these reasons it's also not out of the question that Seattle would pass on him as well, depending on what other defenders are available.
 
KuleminFan41 said:
lol Holl was a major part to the PK that was 24th in the league, the worst since the 14-15 season. In fact, since he became a PK'er, the Leafs PK has declined in 2 straight seasons now. Holl only played that much because the Leafs didn't have anyone ready to surpass him , but it was hardly because he was blowing away the rest of the competition. You don't throw away a 24 year old defencemen, the Leafs have done this thing before and its bitten them. Holl isn't going to get any better because the league is only getting faster which suits Dermott far more
Click to expand...
You might want to have a deeper dive at the PK numbers. The Leafs PK with Holl and Muzzin are top 10 in PK%, WITHOUT Andersen in net. When Andersen has been in net, the PK plummets.
 
Should expose? Dermott imo.
Will expose? based on the signing I am now leaning towards Holl.
 
Neither guy should be a critical part of a team that is hoping to win a championship, therefore it doesnt matter which one is lost.
 
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