HOH Top 70 Players of All Time (2009)

[Bear of Bad News]

I thought this was really funny.

Thanks! I'll be here all week.

 

[Killion]

Thanks! I'll be here all week.

... try the veal.

 

[TheMachiavelli*]

Everyone has bias, but not to the point of including an all-Canadian top 10? How does that even make sense?

 

[BraveCanadian]

Everyone has bias, but not to the point of including an all-Canadian top 10? How does that even make sense?

Says the person who wants 5 contemporaneous Russians in the top 5-10 hockey players of all time.

 

[TheMachiavelli*]

Says the person who wants 5 contemporaneous Russians in the top 5-10 hockey players of all time.

What is wrong with that? They were the best of the best. Kharlamov was the Maradonna of hockey.

 

[tarheelhockey]

What is wrong with that? They were the best of the best. Kharlamov was the Maradonna of hockey.

Maltsev over Gretzky?

Good luck convincing anyone of that.

 

[TheMachiavelli*]

Maltsev over Gretzky?

Good luck convincing anyone of that.

Did I say he was the best player? I was just listing some. I think Kharlamov definitely deserves the no. 2 spot.

 

[seventieslord]

Did I say he was the best player? I was just listing some. I think Kharlamov definitely deserves the no. 2 spot.

So over Howe, Orr and Gretzky then, eh?

 

[TheMachiavelli*]

So over Howe, Orr and Gretzky then, eh?

Nobody can deny that Gretzky is the greatest, but yes Kharlamov should be placed over the others you mentioned.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Nobody can deny that Gretzky is the greatest, but yes Kharlamov should be placed over the others you mentioned.

None of Kharlamov's teammates would rank him over Bobby Orr

 

[TheMachiavelli*]

None of Kharlamov's teammates would rank him over Bobby Orr

I think you need a citation for that one.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I think you need a citation for that one.

Nobody can deny that Gretzky is the greatest, but yes Kharlamov should be placed over the others you mentioned.

Based on what?

Kharlamov didn't even dominate the Soviet league like any of those players dominated the NHL.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Based on what?

Kharlamov didn't even dominate the Soviet league like any of those players dominated the NHL.

While Kharlamov has no place in any top 5 player, never mind top 5 Wingers list he is the type of player that can get over rated and glorified really quickly with his ankle injury, care of Bobby Clarke and flair on the ice along with his car accident and then untimely death.

These sorts of incidents go a long way in immortalizing a guy (and making him over rated).

 

[ResilientBeast]

While Kharlamov has no place in any top 5 player, never mind top 5 Wingers list he is the type of player that can get over rated and glorified really quickly with his ankle injury, care of Bobby Clarke and flair on the ice along with his car accident and then untimely death.

These sorts of incidents go a long way in immortalizing a guy (and making him over rated).

I agree, but I wanna see his justification.

 

[TheMachiavelli*]

I agree, but I wanna see his justification.

Have you ever seen the Summit Series? He made men look like boys. I want to see your justification for leaving him out of the top 5.

I think you are over-using this notion of Canadian hockey exceptionalism.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I think you need a citation for that one.

I'm not going to spend much time on it - it should be widely known to a fan of 70s international hockey that the Soviets were in awe of Bobby Orr in 1976, and it led them to change the way their own defensemen played.

Here's one link though - Viktor Tikhonov called Orr "the greatest player of them all" in 1980: http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...5QuAAAAIBAJ&sjid=a6EFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6778,3248732

 

[Fred Taylor]

Kharlamov is the most overrated player in the history of this sport. No way does he even come remotely close to being a top 10 player, Makarov was better IMO.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Have you ever seen the Summit Series? He made men look like boys. I want to see your justification for leaving him out of the top 5.

1. Yes.

2. None of my top-sixteen were even in the Summit Series, so he certainly didn't make any of them look like boys.

 

[TheMachiavelli*]

It is obviously delusional to argue with anyone who does not even have a Soviet Union/Russia player on their top 10.

Hockey is played outside of NA, just to let people know. Yes, even in the 70s,80s etc...

 

[Canadiens1958]

Stop

It is obviously delusional to argue with anyone who does not even have a Soviet Union/Russia player on their top 10.

Hockey is played outside of NA, just to let people know. Yes, even in the 70s,80s etc...

Then stop before you further impeach yourself.

 

[Rhiessan71]

It is obviously delusional to argue with anyone who does not even have a Soviet Union/Russia player on their top 10.

Hockey is played outside of NA, just to let people know. Yes, even in the 70s,80s etc...

You have to make your case though. You can't just come in here screaming bias and hope to get any where (or actually be taken seriously, as you might have noticed heh.)

And just because a country has been producing top level hockey players for a given time, that doesn't guarantee any of them a spot in the top 5, 10 or even 25.
The Yanks have been producing them almost as long as the Russians have and you don't see anyone screaming bias because Chelios is barely cracking the top 30 as the top Yank.

Sometimes there's a definite case for bias but mostly it's brought up irrationally and without much thought or research beforehand.
Best example was catching a whole host of posters claiming bias NA bias for Lidstrom not winning the Calder without actually checking for who did win it. That one still makes me laugh to this day.

 

[TheMachiavelli*]

You have to make your case though. You can't just come in here screaming bias and hope to get any where (or actually be taken seriously, as you might have noticed heh.)

And just because a country has been producing top level hockey players for a given time, that doesn't guarantee any of them a spot in the top 5, 10 or even 25.
The Yanks have been producing them almost as long as the Russians have and you don't see anyone screaming bias because Chelios is barely cracking the top 30 as the top Yank.

Sometimes there's a definite case for bias but mostly it's brought up irrationally and without much thought or research beforehand.
Best example was catching a whole host of posters claiming bias NA bias for Lidstrom not winning the Calder without actually checking for who did win it. That one still makes me laugh to this day.

Well of course there is a gargantuan bias, this is a Canadian forum. But after seeing the list it seems the people who voted are stuck in their little universe without much thought for the outside world and how it compares.

 

[Rhiessan71]

Well of course there is a gargantuan bias, this is a Canadian forum. But after seeing the list it seems the people who voted are stuck in their little universe without much thought for the outside world and how it compares.

Listen dude, stop yippin and whinning and make your case then!!!

Yippin and yappin about bias or how "people are stuck in their own little universes" gets you no where fast.

Less yippin and yappin, more substance please.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Well of course there is a gargantuan bias, this is a Canadian forum.

It is? (Hint: it isn't).

But after seeing the list it seems the people who voted are stuck in their little universe without much thought for the outside world and how it compares.

I'm sure that you would have done better. Tell us about your little universe.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Well of course there is a gargantuan bias, this is a Canadian forum. But after seeing the list it seems the people who voted are stuck in their little universe without much thought for the outside world and how it compares.

You still haven't given a solid justification for Kharlamov at #2. The only thing you have done is dance around the bushes and given unsupported statements (USSR made Canada look like "boys" in '72).

I find it funny how Americans are viewed as arrogant and the Euros as humble in general but when it comes to hockey and GOAT discussions, it's the exact opposite.