HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 3

[Michael Farkas]

Holecek isn't equal in skill either. The Tretiak comparison feels like a "hipster" play - "Eww, you like Elvis Presley...? He's so mainstream. I liked Jett Powers before anyone ever heard of him."

Yeah, well, that's still true because no one has ever heard of him, shut up haha

Not that I think Holecek is bad. But there are really glaring points in his game that leave a lot to be desired. Like the time it takes him from getting out of his normal stance into making a save selection. It lends itself to inconsistency on first shots. Tretiak doesn't have that ailment. Holecek just gives more net than you'd like. He can take more away faster than Dzurilla, fine...but I have questions about Holecek being very scalable.

Then again, some games he looks pretty good. I probably overrated him on my initial list (mid 20s) in quick retrospect.

EDIT: Both the 70's Czech goalies scare the hell out of me on a game to game basis. I have absolutely no need for a goalie like that right now - we have a top 10 in history open.

 

[VanIslander]

Dzurilla has a joke of a resume compared to Holecek @Michael Farkas

 

[Michael Farkas]

Holecek has a joke of a resume compared to Tretiak @VanIslander

 

[VanIslander]

Holecek has a joke of a resume compared to Tretiak @VanIslander

No.

Holecek was 4 times world championship all-star goalie over Tretiak in the 1970's, three times winning gold over the mighty Soviets whereas Tretiak came up short against much less all-time mighty Czechoslovakian skaters.

Holecek is to Tretiak what Brodeur is to Roy.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Some interesting comparisons in play.

Bower and Broda. Leafs goaltenders on defensive juggernaut dynasties.

Canon has always had an appreciable gap in Broda's favour. Neither were the best of their era.

Lundqvist and Vasilevsky for best goalie born 1973 to 1998.

I like Holocek, but him and Parent are fighting for third best of their era while we have entire decades unrepresented.

I'm looking at Gardiner and Vezina at tops. Lundqvist will do well. I've warmed up to Durnan a lot.

 

[blogofmike]

Charlie Gardiner has an obvious longevity issue, and as mentioned before when Chicago lost Gardiner, they kept the Vezina (low GA definition). The Vezina left town when Bill Durnan did. It eventually followed Clint Benedict (the low GA leadership, even if it's a tad early for a trophy) from Ottawa to the Montreal Maroons, following a Cup win that included a win over the Sens on the way..

Before anyone says the same of Parent's longevity as they might about Gardiner, here's a reminder that no one played more games at goaltender from 1967-68 through 1974-75 than Bernie Parent.

As for Holecek, I have difficulty discerning what's a result of him vs his teammates/coaching. It's not like he consistently outperforms Dzurilla (as a comparison, Connell and McNeil were okay goalies, but they didn't match up to Benedict and Durnan). Holecek seemed to be a coin flip on whether or not he was going to save the day or accidentally drive a promising team off of a cliff.

I'm really high on Lundqvist. Here's a post from early 2024 that found that if Lundqvist gave up 2 GA in a playoff game, he's one of a very select few who lost more often than not. That's not 2+ GA. That's 2 goals even. His team gave him 0 or 1 goals in support often enough that he had to win the game for his team. And he he was reasonably successful.

His back was often against the wall, and when it was, he was among the best in NHL history: NHL Records

Someone's gonna need to convince me not to have Lundqvist on top of my ballot.

 

[VanIslander]

we have entire decades unrepresented.

Hence why Vezina should go before clear 4th fiddle Belfour. Broda, too.

 

[Michael Farkas]

No.

Holecek was 4 times world championship all-star goalie over Tretiak in the 1970's, three times winning gold over the mighty Soviets whereas Tretiak came up short against much less all-time mighty Czechoslovakian skaters.

Holecek is to Tretiak what Brodeur is to Roy.

Yes, it's very, very, very close...

AGE 15
Vladislav Tretiak	1967-1968	U19 EJC Silver Medal
AGE 16
Vladislav Tretiak	1968-1969	U19 EJC Gold Medal
AGE 17
Vladislav Tretiak	1969-1970	Soviet Champion
Vladislav Tretiak	1969-1970	U19 EJC Gold Medal
Vladislav Tretiak	1969-1970	World Championship Gold Medal
AGE 18
Vladislav Tretiak	1970-1971	Soviet All-Star Team
Vladislav Tretiak	1970-1971	Soviet Best Goaltender
Vladislav Tretiak	1970-1971	Soviet Champion
Vladislav Tretiak	1970-1971	U19 EJC All-Star Team
Vladislav Tretiak	1970-1971	U19 EJC Best Goaltender
Vladislav Tretiak	1970-1971	U19 EJC Gold Medal
Vladislav Tretiak	1970-1971	USSR All-Star
Vladislav Tretiak	1970-1971	World Championship Gold Medal
AGE 19
Vladislav Tretiak	1971-1972	Olympic Gold Medal
Vladislav Tretiak	1971-1972	Soviet Champion
Vladislav Tretiak	1971-1972	USSR All-Star
Vladislav Tretiak	1971-1972	World Championship Silver Medal
AGE 20
Vladislav Tretiak	1972-1973	Soviet Champion
Vladislav Tretiak	1972-1973	USSR All-Star
Vladislav Tretiak	1972-1973	World Championship Gold Medal
AGE 21				AGE 21
Vladislav Tretiak	1973-1974	Soviet Union Player of the Year		Jiri Holecek	1965-1966	World Championship Silver Medal
Vladislav Tretiak	1973-1974	USSR All-Star
Vladislav Tretiak	1973-1974	World Championship Best Goaltender
Vladislav Tretiak	1973-1974	World Championship Gold Medal
AGE 22
Vladislav Tretiak	1974-1975	Soviet Champion
Vladislav Tretiak	1974-1975	Soviet Union Player of the Year
Vladislav Tretiak	1974-1975	USSR All-Star
Vladislav Tretiak	1974-1975	World Championship All-Star Team
Vladislav Tretiak	1974-1975	World Championship Gold Medal
AGE 23
Vladislav Tretiak	1975-1976	Olympic Gold Medal
Vladislav Tretiak	1975-1976	Soviet Union Player of the Year
Vladislav Tretiak	1975-1976	USSR All-Star
Vladislav Tretiak	1975-1976	World Championship Silver Medal
AGE 24
Vladislav Tretiak	1976-1977	Soviet Champion
Vladislav Tretiak	1976-1977	USSR All-Star
Vladislav Tretiak	1976-1977	World Championship Bronze Medal
AGE 25
Vladislav Tretiak	1977-1978	Soviet Champion
Vladislav Tretiak	1977-1978	USSR All-Star
Vladislav Tretiak	1977-1978	World Championship Gold Medal
AGE 26				AGE 26
Vladislav Tretiak	1978-1979	Soviet Champion		Jiri Holecek	1970-1971	World Championship All-Star Team
Vladislav Tretiak	1978-1979	USSR All-Star		Jiri Holecek	1970-1971	World Championship Best Goaltender
Vladislav Tretiak	1978-1979	World Championship All-Star Team		Jiri Holecek	1970-1971	World Championship Silver Medal
Vladislav Tretiak	1978-1979	World Championship Best Goaltender
Vladislav Tretiak	1978-1979	World Championship Gold Medal
AGE 27				AGE 27
Vladislav Tretiak	1979-1980	Olympic Silver Medal		Jiri Holecek	1971-1972	Olympic Bronze Medal
Vladislav Tretiak	1979-1980	Soviet Champion		Jiri Holecek	1971-1972	World Championship All-Star Team
Vladislav Tretiak	1979-1980	USSR All-Star		Jiri Holecek	1971-1972	World Championship Gold Medal
AGE 28				AGE 28
Vladislav Tretiak	1980-1981	Soviet Champion		Jiri Holecek	1972-1973	World Championship All-Star Team
Vladislav Tretiak	1980-1981	Soviet Union Player of the Year		Jiri Holecek	1972-1973	World Championship Best Goaltender
Vladislav Tretiak	1980-1981	USSR All-Star		Jiri Holecek	1972-1973	World Championship Bronze Medal
Vladislav Tretiak	1980-1981	World Championship Gold Medal
AGE 29				AGE 29
Vladislav Tretiak	1981-1982	Canada Cup All-Star Team		Jiri Holecek	1973-1974	Czechoslovakia Player of the Year
Vladislav Tretiak	1981-1982	Canada Cup Champion		Jiri Holecek	1973-1974	World Championship Silver Medal
Vladislav Tretiak	1981-1982	Canada Cup MVP
Vladislav Tretiak	1981-1982	Soviet Champion
Vladislav Tretiak	1981-1982	USSR All-Star
Vladislav Tretiak	1981-1982	World Championship Gold Medal
AGE 30				AGE 30
Vladislav Tretiak	1982-1983	Soviet Champion		Jiri Holecek	1974-1975	World Championship Best Goaltender
Vladislav Tretiak	1982-1983	Soviet Union Player of the Year		Jiri Holecek	1974-1975	World Championship Silver Medal
Vladislav Tretiak	1982-1983	USSR All-Star
Vladislav Tretiak	1982-1983	World Championship All-Star Team
Vladislav Tretiak	1982-1983	World Championship Best Goaltender
Vladislav Tretiak	1982-1983	World Championship Gold Medal
AGE 31				AGE 31
Vladislav Tretiak	1983-1984	Olympic Gold Medal		Jiri Holecek	1975-1976	Olympic Silver Medal
Vladislav Tretiak	1983-1984	Soviet Champion		Jiri Holecek	1975-1976	World Championship All-Star Team
Vladislav Tretiak	1983-1984	USSR All-Star		Jiri Holecek	1975-1976	World Championship Best Goaltender
				Jiri Holecek	1975-1976	World Championship Gold Medal
				AGE 32
				Jiri Holecek	1976-1977	Canada Cup Runner-Up
				Jiri Holecek	1976-1977	World Championship Gold Medal
				AGE 33
				Jiri Holecek	1977-1978	World Championship All-Star Team
				Jiri Holecek	1977-1978	World Championship Best Goaltender
				Jiri Holecek	1977-1978	World Championship Silver Medal
Vladislav Tretiak	1989-1990	Hockey Hall of Fame
AGE 44				AGE 53
Vladislav Tretiak	1996-1997	IIHF Hall of Fame		Jiri Holecek	1997-1998	IIHF Hall of Fame
AGE 56				Jiri Holecek		Czechoslovakia Hall of Fame
Vladislav Tretiak	2008​	IIHF Centennial All-Star Team

 

[Michael Farkas]

we have entire decades unrepresented.

What value does a decade have in this arena?

Looking at the non-NHL Europeans list...
The first 7 are Soviets.
Only 1 of the top 29 is not Soviet or Czech.

How come not all countries were represented there? No best Swede or Finn at 9? Not a Swiss player in sight...they were in the first ice hockey Olympics in 1920. Not one of them was good enough to beat the 30th best Soviet...?