HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 2

[Michael Farkas]

Georges Vezina

Pros

• Remembered by most who saw him as the greatest goaltender of early hockey, and was considered the GOAT for decades

Clint Benedict -

Remembered by some as the best of his era

Chuck was inducted into the 1945 inaugural class of the Hockey Hall of Fame. He was just an incredible goalie, the best of his generation, and without a doubt the best the game had seen up until that point.

All right, fellows...not to be reductive, but which is it?


(also, awesome post @overpass - there's even notes about how they played! :swoon: )

 

[jigglysquishy]

My hold up on Gardiner is really centered around career length. His first two years the Blackhawks are awful and his stats aren't great. But in that third season you start to see references to him being the best goalie ever. How much do we weigh 5 all time great seasons? Well, we voted Sawchuk high.

On the other hand, Vezina's praise isn't as high but is consistent for 14 seasons. I think that in 1925 he had done enough to be the greatest goalie of all time.

Going over both Benedict's and Vezina's careers I'm confident with Vezina ahead.

Brimsek upsets this whole balance too. Lots of greatest all time quotes in his prime.

All are realistic candidates to go high this round.

 

[VanIslander]

Both Gardiner and Vezina were inducted in the inaugural class of 1945.

No goalie in the next class of inductees, nor the class thereafter, nor the class thereafter, nor the class thereafter.

Not until the boatload class of 1958 when Moran and Connell were inducted were early era goalies inducted.

So,... Gardiner & Vezina deserve to be spoken about in the same breath.

 

[VanIslander]

Benedict wasn't inducted in the first dozen classes.

(After 11 other goalies. It wasn't until 1966.)

Why not?

 

[Professor What]

Benedict wasn't inducted in the first dozen classes.

(After 11 other goalies. It wasn't until 1966.)

Why not?

I don't know, but I'd tend to think it was because of the drinking problem.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Benedict wasn't inducted in the first dozen classes.

(After 11 other goalies. It wasn't until 1966.)

Why not?

As posited upthread, perhaps given the general feeling of "worst skater/athlete/stickhandler/whatever" is relegated to goalie...maybe they weren't considered very important/inpactful...?

 

[nabby12]

Benedict wasn't inducted in the first dozen classes.

(After 11 other goalies. It wasn't until 1966.)

Why not?

The Hockey Hall of Fame was and still is to some extent an "old boys club."

Benedict ruffled a lot of people's feathers throughout his playing career that seemed to have an effect on his Hall of Fame status. Stats-wise and looking at his career, he should have been inducted within the first five years of the Hockey Hall of Fame existing. However, for one, Benedict had problems with alcohol that led to Ottawa getting rid of him at the height of his career. He was able to resurrect his career with the Maroons and won another Stanley Cup, but the damage was done.

This is not confirmed either by any means (and honestly how can it), but his family members have rumoured to me that he had gotten in trouble with an under-aged girl during his career and it was quietly swept under the rug and wasn't in the press.

Personality-wise, he was also very abrasive, a "my way or the highway" type of guy, that you can see with the whole falling down on his knees to make saves when it was still illegal and eventually having the rule changed.

Benedict was finally inducted in 1966, I believe, after a couple of people on the selection committee had passed away, who were keeping him out over the years.

 

[VanIslander]

I don't know, but I'd tend to think it was because of the drinking problem.

Haha.

Newsy Lalonde was far from alone in having whiskey in his pocket at all times.

Howe said he didn't like to spend time with teammates off ice because of all the drinking.

The Silver Seven over a century ago got so drunk they kicked the Stanley Cup into a river and didn't retrieve it until sobering up a day later.

Not inducting Benedict in the 1950's and 1960's because of drinking? ... absurd.

 

[VanIslander]

Benedict was finally inducted in 1966, I believe, after a couple of people on the selection committee had passed away, who were keeping him out over the years.

GIVE AT LEAST ONE CITATION, ONE REFERENCE.

I've read hundreds of hockey history books and never heard any such thing, or anything close to it.

 

[nabby12]

GIVE AT LEAST ONE CITATION, ONE REFERENCE.

I've read hundreds of hockey history books and never heard any such thing, or anything close to it.

Source: my conversations with Clint's family, who know the situation more than anyone. Now take a hike.

Do you think that Benedict wasn't inducted for 21 years because his career wasn't up to par with other inductees before him...? Not sure what you're trying to argue here.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I don't want to read too much into the HHoF order.

Durnan and Brimsek had to wait.

Cleghorn had to wait. Fredrickson had to wait. Conacher had to wait. Like 20 all time greats waited way post retirement in the early HHOF years.

The order is largely inconsistent with how they were perceived at the time and are on this forum. The order gets a lot "cleaner" in the late 60s.

 

[nabby12]

These are the list of goalies who were inducted to HHOF after Gardiner/Vezina and before Benedict:

Alec Connell, Hugh Lehman, Tiny Thompson, George Hainsworth, Percy LeSueur, Riley Hern, Bouse Hutton, Bill Durnan.

I don't think the HHOF-order is a good basis for ranking goaltenders all time...

I don't want to read too much into the HHoF order.

Durnan and Brimsek had to wait.

Cleghorn had to wait. Fredrickson had to wait. Conacher had to wait. Like 20 all time greats waited way post retirement in the early HHOF years.

The order is largely inconsistent with how they were perceived at the time and are on this forum. The order gets a lot "cleaner" in the late 60s.

Yeah exactly. Like I said, it was a big time Old Boys Club in the beginning.

 

[VanIslander]

Source: my conversations with Clint's family, who know the situation more than anyone. Now take a hike.

K. I need some fresh air.

 

[Sentinel]

I have estimations of several elite non-NHL European goalies and defensemen in terms of how would their seasons translate in a global league with concentrated talent pool from both sides of the Atlantic.

They’re nothing more than my subjective views, so feel free to ignore it / disagree with it. Although estimations are based on my own careful, detail-oriented study of goalies of Europe and NA, so some people might find it useful. My Tretiak career projection in a global league derived from his season-to-season results are:

1973: 5th best goalie (established starter on NHL team, getting meaningful amount of AS votes)
1974: 4th best goalie
1975: 3rd best goalie
1976: 3rd best goalie
1977: 7th best goalie
1978: 6th best goalie
1979: 4th best goalie

What?? Please name 3-6 goalies who were better than Tretiak in those years. Especially in 1977.

 

[Michael Farkas]

They’re nothing more than my subjective views, so feel free to ignore it / disagree with it. Although estimations are based on my own careful, detail-oriented study of goalies of Europe and NA, so some people might find it useful.

"Subjective" is the key to success, in the right hands.

I completely missed that post yesterday because it got sandwiched in between a couple, but do you mind sharing a bit more about this process of yours? A link is fine if it's already been fleshed out. I don't necessarily need a whole treatise (though, I would read it), but just an idea on what the key points are to your process would be cool to see.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Order might not matter, but it's at least a little interesting that only 2 of the first 32 inductees over the first 12 years of its existence were goalies - both who died while playing.

I did find the HHOF committee as of 1958, if that isn't already common knowledge -
Chairman: Lester Patrick
Dutton Pickard, past president of CAHA
Milt Dunnell, Toronto Daily Star editor
Marcel Desjardins, Montreal La Presse sports editor
Danny Gallivan, obvious who he is...
Walter Brown, Boston Bruins president

In 1952, it is cited as "the 16 governors"...

 

[jigglysquishy]

Benedict in the Cup Finals

1920 Finals

Ottawa wins 3-2 off two goals from Nighbor, who receives high praise
Senators 1 - Metropolitans 0

The Toronto World - March 23, 1920

The players were exhausted, Ottawa were outplaying the westerners, who drove long shots at Benedict.

Ottawa shuts out Seattle 3-0. Lots of complaints about ice quality
Senators 2 - Metropolitans 0

The Montreal Gazette - March 25, 1920

Seattle had several chances, but the defence of the Senators proved invulnerable and they failed to penetrate the nets behind Benedict.
The ice was heavier in the second period. Benedict saved two in a row off Morris and Riley. Walker came down and Benedict caught his offering.
Riley fooled Nigbor and Gerard but Benedict knocked down his drive.
Foyston took a whack at the disc and Benedict had to work fast to catch his shot.
Morris was robbed of a sure goal when Benedict when to his knees.

Seattle wins 3-1 on the back of Holmes and two goals from Foyston. Nighbor and Darragh leave the game halfway through due to exhaustion.
Senators 2 - Metropolitans 1

The Montreal Gazette - March 29, 1920

Seattle clearly outplayed the Senators Saturday night and had it not been for some miraculous work on the part of Clint Benedict in the Ottawa nets the score would have been larger in favour of the Pacific Coast club.
Foston kept bombarding Benedict.
Seattle finished strong again and were driving shot after shot at Benedict as the period drew to a close.
Benedict was probably Ottawa's best man on the night's play. Some of the lanky goalkeeper's saves bordered on the miraculous.

Seattle wins 5-2. Foyston and Nighbor get 2 goals each
Senators 2 - Metropolitans 2

The Saskatoon Phoenix - March 31, 1920

Benedict and Gerard were not as steady as usual and they failed to fathom Seattle's cleverly executed forward pass.

Sens win 6-1 on a Darragh hat trick. Bobby Rowe gets high sticked by Gerard in the second and leaves the game. Boucher gets very high praise
Senators 3 - Metropolitans 2

The Toronto World - April 2, 1920

Foyston wiggled in and Benedict cleared cleverly.
A lively session resulted at the Ottawa end with Benedict going down on the ice for over a minute stopping shot after shot.
The famous Ottawa four-man defence came into being again.

1921 Finals

Vancouver wins 3-1
Senators 0 - Millionaires 1
Saskatoon Phoenix - March 22, 1921

Gerard, Nighbor, and Denneny were particularly brilliant.
Vancouver had much the better play in the closing minutes of the period and Benedict had his hands full.
Nighbor and Gerard were the pick of the easterners so far, both performing well.

Sens wins 4-3 after a late game goal by Punch Broadbent. Lehman gets high praise.
Senators 1 - Millionaires 1
Benedict doesn't get any positive comments


Sens win 3-2
Senators 2 - Millionaires 1

The Montreal Gazette -March 29, 1921

The long followed passing of the goal-keepers again was a feature, Benedict using it at first experimentally, but finding it very useful, made it a very effective part of his game.

Vancouver wins 3-2 after a big game from Alf Skinner, who missed the first period while sick in hospital
Senators 2 - Millionaires 2

The Saskatoon Phoenix - April 1, 1921

The Ottawa Senators showed themselves capable of the greatest skill attainable in the game.
The Ottawa goalie was playing his own game, and cleared with precision, snapping the rubber to the wings with ease.
The Millionaires, however, made more rushes than their opponents and managed to send in about two for every one sent in on Lehman. Very few of those shots were dangerous, being checked by the Ottawa defence men before they received any strength or precision. The Millionaires were almost through many times, but each times their sticks were struck at the crucial moment of shooting.

Vancouver wins 2-1 after another big game from Darragh. The Senators are called the "Greatest Team Ever"
Senators 3 - Millionaires 2

The Saskatoon Phoenix - April 5, 1921

Ottawa is, without a doubt, one of the greatest teams ever collected, and many who were members of the famous "Silver Seven" of Ottawa say the old team has in its successor an even greater exponent of the fastest game being played today.
The Ottawa goalie made good use of the long forward pass allowed by the coast rules and even took to throwing the rubber by hand until stopped by the referee.
Ottawa, with a goal up, played more and more on the defense toward the closing moments while the Millionaires left their defence wide open, all hands being clustered around the Ottawa goal in an effort to gain a goal which would tie the tally. Once Lehman skated out to the blue line after a loose puck and sent in a long shot which got through as far as Benedict.

1923 Finals

Ottawa beats Edmonton 2-1 in OT. Hitchman tied the game late to force OT. Both Nighbor and Benedict get high praise
Senators 1 - Eskimos 0

The Vancouver Sun - March 30, 1923

Speculation as to the relative merits of Keats and Nighbor as claiments to the title of centre-ice emperor was definitely settled, as far as this writer is concerned, in favour of the Ottawa performer. Keats skated a lot more than Nighbor, and did more fancy stick-handling, but the latter made every stroke of his blades and ever motion of his stick count. Known as the greatest defensive forward in the game, he was the savior of the Ottawa citadel times innumerable.
Benedict Again Excels.
For Ottawa, Benedict was more the white-haried boy in goal, and came through with another exhibition that stamped him as the equal of anything ever seen in these parts.
Time and again Edmonton got through the defence, only to have a back-checking forward carry man or puck or both to the corners, or to have Benedict pull off one of his copyrighted saves.

Benedict gets the shutout in a 1-0 victory. Play stopped twice as Benedict got hit in the face with a puck. Broadbent scored early and Ottawa "closed in" the rest of the game. Joe Simpson gets high praise
Senators 2 - Eskimos 0

The Calgary Daily Herald -April 2, 1923

Edmonton played hockey that was good to watch, until they encountered the phalanx directed by Frank Nighbor.
Summarizing the game is an easy task. Ottawa made the game look exactly as they desired. They were masters all the way and when they banged in a goal and dug themselves in for the defence it was Edmonton's only hope to break through.
Trapp came down left wing and drove a hard one at Benecit, the Ottawa goalie saving but the puck dropped on the line and spun like a top before it fell outside.
A rush by Trapp and Morrison succeeded in penetrating the Ottawa defense but Benedict broke up the play.

1926 Finals

Benedict recorded his first of three shutouts as the Maroons win 3-0
Maroons 1 - Cougars 0

The Calgary Daily Herald - March 31, 1926

Benedict is Solid
Patrick sent on relays of subs who tried every combination known to hockey to break down the barrier that Noble and Stewart reared in front of them, but I was all to no purpose. Frederickson played desperately and once or twice tested Benedict, but the Maroon goalie was as solid as a rock.
Victoria were unable to pierce the Montreal defence and the shots that did get to Benedict were all drive from far out.
For a time Benedict was given some work to do and had to skip lively in order to ward off the Victorians' threats.

Another 3-0 victory for the Maroons
Maroons 2 - Cougars 0

The Leader - April 2, 1926

Benedict, in the Maroons' goal, was given considerably more to do than on the previous meeting. The early play was featured by dashes on the part of Waker and Frederickson who kept Benedict busy staving off some burning shots.
Halderson repeated his attacks on the Montreal goal, only to find Benedict still doing business.
Towards the close of the session the Cougars gathered strength for a great effort and in the last minutes kept Benedict busy, but try as they might they could not score.
The fans shrieked when Benedict saved brilliantly from Walker.
Benedict made a sensational save from Walker who had rushed in on a pass from Frederickson.

The Cougars rebound 3-2
Maroons 2 - Cougars 1

The Leader - April 5, 1926

Frederickson, speedy centre of the visiting team, clinched the game by completely tricking the Maroon defence and outguessing Benedict.
The game ended with Benedict being forced to make brilliant save to prevent Russell Oatman from adding to the Coasters' margin.
Frederickson and Walker were giving Benedict many anxious moments, but without result.

Benedict gets his third shutout in four games and Nels Stewart scores twice in a 2-0 victory
Maroons 3 - Cougars 1

The Calgary Daily Herald - April 7, 1926

A superior defensive system, coupled with an unceasing attack, gave the locals their third victory.
Out of the fray Nelson Stewart emerged the star.
Benedict had a comparably easy time in the final minutes of the game.
Frederickson almost scored when he sped through the Maroon defence and burned one from close in on Benedict.
Benedict had to stretch his legs far to block a sizzling shot from Broadbent.

I don't want Benedict to get reduced to a Brian Elliott behind an elite defensive system. While he had "easy" games to play, he also was the star several times on the dynasty. I'm thinking of something like Game 3 in 1920, where he is the best Senator on the ice. His praise is consistent and he succeeds even in 1926 without Nighbor/Gerard.

That being said, it's also very clear he had an "easy" time from 1919-1923 for a goalie. The Ottawa defensive system gets extremely high praise and Nighbor in particular is repeatedly singled out. They played a very defensively sound system and relied on wingers to get goals in tight games. Nighbor formed a trio with Gerard and Boucher to shut opposition down. Broadbent, Darragh, and Denneny were given free reign to play up because the defense was so tight.

In a lot of ways I'm reminded of the Dryden Habs. Multiple HHOF defensemen that would punish you. Defensively elite centres. Offense flowing through speedy wingers. And an all-time great goalie that was elite when needed, but was often not needed to be elite. The key difference, of course, being the Nighbor factor.

Benedict didn't have nearly this level of support in 1926, though I will point out the team's defensive system is frequently highlighted. 3 shutouts in 4 games is something else. And it shows he was not just a body behind a dynasty.

There are a lot of comments about Benedict being a "passing" goalie who would take dump ins and pass the puck up to his skaters. I don't want to read too much into it, but he gets more praise for this than any contemporary.

All in all, I do think Vezina was the better goalie. And Lehman's name jumps off the page repeatedly. But for pre-Gardiner goalies, I'm pretty confident on a top three of Vezina and Benedict/Lehman.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Order might not matter, but it's at least a little interesting that only 2 of the first 32 inductees over the first 12 years of its existence were goalies - both who died while playing.

I did find the HHOF committee as of 1958, if that isn't already common knowledge -
Chairman: Lester Patrick
Dutton Pickard, past president of CAHA
Milt Dunnell, Toronto Daily Star editor
Marcel Desjardins, Montreal La Presse sports editor
Danny Gallivan, obvious who he is...
Walter Brown, Boston Bruins president

In 1952, it is cited as "the 16 governors"...

From The Edmonton Bulletin - Jan 31, 1948 --

Original Members of the Committee:
Lester Patrick
Art Ross
Frank Sargent
Mervyn (Red) Dutton
W.A. Hewitt
Leo Dandurand
Basil O'Meara
Maj. Abbie Coo
Wes McKnight

##

They "decided...to increase the board personnel from nine to 16. It was explained the decision was made so that representation should be given to as many districts of North America as possible."

Adding these fine gentlemen:
Clarence S. Campbell
Connie Smythe
Al Sutphin (AHL Cleveland owner)
Paul Louden (former USHL president)
Walter Brown (president of AHA)
Cyclone Taylor
George Dudley (secretary-manager of CAHA)

"These 16 governors remain in office until the end of 1949 when the entire board will come up for re-election."

 

[kaiser matias]

The Hockey Hall of Fame was and still is to some extent an "old boys club."

Benedict ruffled a lot of people's feathers throughout his playing career that seemed to have an effect on his Hall of Fame status. Stats-wise and looking at his career, he should have been inducted within the first five years of the Hockey Hall of Fame existing. However, for one, Benedict had problems with alcohol that led to Ottawa getting rid of him at the height of his career. He was able to resurrect his career with the Maroons and won another Stanley Cup, but the damage was done.

This is not confirmed either by any means (and honestly how can it), but his family members have rumoured to me that he had gotten in trouble with an under-aged girl during his career and it was quietly swept under the rug and wasn't in the press.

Personality-wise, he was also very abrasive, a "my way or the highway" type of guy, that you can see with the whole falling down on his knees to make saves when it was still illegal and eventually having the rule changed.

Benedict was finally inducted in 1966, I believe, after a couple of people on the selection committee had passed away, who were keeping him out over the years.

I also see parallels between Benedict and Joe Primeau: both had issues with drinking, and both got delayed induction as a result (Primeau of course had Conn Smythe openly lobbying against him; did Benedict have anyone so outspoken against him?) In short, it's not unprecedented, and further confirms the mentality of the HHOF voters.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I'll just put my notes down here. Benedict and Broda will probably be at the bottom for me. Tretiak and maybe Dryden at the top. The latter two are probably the only ones remaining with a case for the greatest of all time.

Georges Vezina

Pros

I love this and think it's a great overview of where we are at. I think it would be really helpful to have each round to help kickstart conversation.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Re: Vezina and Gardiner having died..........

The long awaited first selection for hockey's hall of fame came this week and as was expected it contained the names only of players who are dead. The selectors felt that this was the proper procedure to start off - but in future there will be no restrictions.

Originally intended to be a selection of eight names, the initial list contains nine due to a tie in the voting.

...

But heading the list is one name that is known and revered by all - Howie Morenz, the Stratford flash. Morenz and Georges Vezina are immortals in hockey history and there is no need to stress their accomplishments. Both were outstanding in their respective eras.

Editor's note: Now, I don't want to assume - and this is likely nothing - but I'll just say that the article notes a tie in voting. Which is pretty inside information as far as the HOF black box goes...it starts off with Morenz as the star and Vezina also placing on the marquee.

The remaining order of the article is just graf by graf in no obvious order to me...
Tom Phillips
Frank McGee
Eddie Gerard
Charlie Gardiner/Hod Stuart split a graf
Harvey Pulford
Hobey Baker "was given pro offers by both the Canadiens and Ottawa but was killed in the First Great War. His inclusion gives the hall of fame an international touch."

Is that possibly signifying the order of voting? Perhaps. Perhaps not. But I'll post it in case there are interpretations to be had.

 

[DN28]

What?? Please name 3-6 goalies who were better than Tretiak in those years. Especially in 1977.

Ken Dryden
Goes without saying... Habs won another cup with Dryden recording 0.920 over 56 RS games (with 10 shutouts). Dryden had his statistically best playoffs (0.932 and 1.56 GAA). No matter how great defense in front of Dryden was, that's a significant improvement. It was one of his better seasons while Tretiak's 1977 certainly wasn't.

Tony Esposito
His standard 1970s season... How much can one blame him for another Chicago's 1st round exit when he had 3 goals of support against the 1977 Islanders? Espo had actually higher SV% in those 2 losing playoff games than his '77 reg. season SV%. Both games were played in NY even though Hawks were originally scheduled as the home team. But Led Zeppelin concert was already booked at Chicago Stadium.

Billy Smith
Smith's 1977 is his statistically best season in 1970s before the Islanders dynasty took off. In fact now that I'm looking hockey-ref. page, his 0.916 is his highest reg. season SV% he ever had. Isles swept Chicago and Buffalo before they lost to Montreal in semifinals. Montreal lost just 2 games in entire playoffs, both of them against Islanders. Smith played most of Isles' playoff games and ended the playoffs with 0.910.

Rogie Vachon
All-Star goalie of the first Canada Cup. I don't even have to look for his SV%, the games are available online. All that that excellent Canadian team needed was goalie who won't allow any soft goal. Vachon was rock solid in those two final games against Czechoslovakia. Vachon was 2nd all-star goalie, finished 3rd in '77 Hart voting.

Glenn Resch
Resch had slightly better regular season than Smith. And although he didn't play too much in playoffs, he finished 3rd in AST voting. In 1977, Dryden, Vachon and Resch covered for like 95% of all-star vote which demonstrates which goalies were considered a tier above based on reg. season play.

Mike Palmateer
Not a big name but he looks really good especially when comparing him with Leafs' backups. Palmateer had 0.904 in 50 RS games, his backups 0.889 in 35 RS games. Playoff Palmateer 0.923 in 6 games, while Wayne Thomas 0.886 in 4 games.

These are the 6 names, all of whom NHL goalies. I didn't mention anyone from WHA and I didn't even start with Europe. Holeček had a down season, fine, I'd have him below Tretiak for 1977. What about the actual top Czechoslovak goalie for this season? Dzurilla put up some memorable performances in Canada Cup and in World Championship. Dzurilla absolutely outplayed Tretiak in the deciding CSSR-USSR game (4-3). Martinec scored on Tretiak in the 1st minute of the game, 10th minute and 2nd goal by Novák, 13th minute and 3rd goal by Holík. Czechs leave the 1st period winning 3-0, what happens next? Dejavú. 1st shot in 2nd period falls again behind Tretiak's back. That's 21st min. and CSSR is winning 4-0. Any other team would pull Tretiak down but Soviets just didn't have reliable backup...

Czechoslovaks won that game 4-3 eventually, but stumbled couple days later losing to Canada 2-8, serving Soviets the gold medal on a silver platter. USSR just needed to do what they almost never failed to do in the 1970s - defeat the Swedes. What happened? Sweden beat Soviets 3-1 in the tournament's last game.

USSR ended the championship with the 3rd place - worst placement in that decade.

European goalie, whom I picked in 1977, would actually be... Göran Högosta. I know.. no name goalie who achieved very little in his career.. But Högosta was outstanding throughout this season. 0.958 in 7 games (WHC), all-star and directoriate's best goalie of the championship. Högosta was Swedish best goalie for 3-year period (76-78) (according to Swedish league yearly all-stars). I think it's pretty likely that Sweden had at least one goaltending season in 1970s where their goalie overachieved. 1977 was that season.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Palmateer?

 

[overpass]

1926 Finals

Benedict recorded his first of three shutouts as the Maroons win 3-0
Maroons 1 - Cougars 0

The Calgary Daily Herald - March 31, 1926


Another 3-0 victory for the Maroons
Maroons 2 - Cougars 0

The Leader - April 2, 1926


The Cougars rebound 3-2
Maroons 2 - Cougars 1

The Leader - April 5, 1926


Benedict gets his third shutout in four games and Nels Stewart scores twice in a 2-0 victory
Maroons 3 - Cougars 1

The Calgary Daily Herald - April 7, 1926

I'll add some more on Benedict's 1926 Cup finals, all from the Montreal Gazette which contained detailed notes on play. Maybe this can help somewhat in bringing to life a bygone era of hockey. While it's a point in Benedict's favour that he won with a different team, that Maroons squad was great defensively as well. Coach Eddie Gerard, a brilliant multi-position player who was only recently retired, coached a lineup containing several smart multi-position players into a great two-way squad.

The interesting lineup note for Maroons was that their captain and defenceman Dunc Munro was injured and limited to substitute duty. So their young centre Nels Stewart, who led the league in scoring and won the Hart trophy as a rookie, dropped back to defence with Reg Noble. Noble was a former forward and a skilled, crafty and tough defender, and the Gazette wrote after the regular season that Noble may have been as valuable as Stewart to the club. Stewart used his big frame and clever stickhandling to drive the offence from the back end. They signed Merlyn "Bill" Phillips out of the OHA to fill in for Stewart at centre, and his poke-checking was a feature on the defence. And their wingers, the young Babe Siebert and the veteran Punch Broadbent, played hard physical hockey up and down their wings.

I'll include positions in parentheses to make it easier to follow for those who don't know the Maroons roster.

Montreal Gazette, March 31, 1926 (Eastern rules, 3-0 Maroons)

Led by the brilliant Nelson Stewart (D), the Maroons fairly swept the cup defenders off the ice in a game which was fast and open...

Benedict did not have a particularly heavy night, but he had his anxious moments, and by dint of spectacular saves kept the meshes of his net intact. But not so at the other end. Happy Holmes, veteran of seven Stanley Cup series, had one of the busiest nights of his long and brilliant hockey career.

Bullet-like drives were rained at him from every corner of the rink; from close in and far out, and it is not his fault that three tallies were spotted by the red light for Montreal.

The Maroons stood out as a team. Nelson Stewart (D) fairly scintillated. Bill Phillips (C) was close behind him. Broadbent (RW) was like a young player fighting for his reputation as a hockey player instead of a veteran who has already proved his worth in marked fashion. Noble (D) was steady and crafty, and Siebert (LW) dashing. But it was the machine play of the Maroons which was the factor.

Victoria were disorganized at first under strange surroundings and when they did settle down it was Frederickson, Halderson, but above all, Happy Holmes, in goal, who carried the brunt for the team.

Benedict was not even mentioned in the Maroons performance as a team in the last quote. It sounds like he made some good saves to keep the shutout, but the story was the dominant team performance in front of him.

Montreal Gazette, April 2, 1926 (Western rules, 3-0 Maroons)

Playing under their own code the cup holders from the west were a vastly different team from that which entered the first game. Their listlessness was gone. Instead of a disorganized attack they swept down the ice in fast rushes...

Where the Maroons towered over the cupholders was in their effectiveness from the defence in to the goal.

...one Victoria rush after another crashed on a sturdy Maroon defence. Some were getting through. Walker, Frederickson and Halderson were whistling shots at Benedict, but the Montreal goalie was at his peak. There has only been one goal--and that a soft one, by Clancy, of Ottawa--scored against the Maroon net guardian in the last four championship battles, which is ample description of the splendid form in which the veteran net tender is playing in the series.

Some rare praise for Benedict, "splendid form in the series".

Here's some tactical detail on the game. I think it was Mike who mentioned earlier that boring in for rebounds were a Morenz innovation around this time. I don't know if that's true, it was very much a part of the Maroons game at this point and was mentioned in multiple games. I think it was screened shots that were a later innovation.

Still Victoria pressed. They launched one attack after another. But their forward passes were being blocked by the back-checking Maroon wings. Siebert (LW) and Broadbent (RW) were the pair who, probably more than any other players on the team, wrecked the Victoria system. They chased their checks the full way back and never left them loose to rush in for discs shot ahead and near the Maroon cage. It was this difference in wing play between the two teams which spelt the difference. The Victoria wings remained up in the mid-ice area, trusting to their defence men to take the puck and carry it back over the blueline and give them a break on the Montreal goal. In practice it did not work, while the Maroon wings were frequently left free to take passes or rush in for rebounds against a defence which had too much to cope with.

While the Maroon wings were great backcheckers, they may have been breaking the western anti-defence rule which was in force for this game.

Victoria were at home under their own rules, and made the contest a thrilling one. They were handicapped by the refereeing. Cooper Smeaton and Billy Bell did their best to watch for all the points of the western code.

The anti-defence rule, which allows only two players back of blue line on defence and one between the blue line and a small mark between there and centre, was a continual source of trouble. The Maroons frequently infringed this rule by standing outside of the first blue line, but outside the long one, waiting flat-footed for Victoria charges instead of skating back with the onrushing Victoria players. It meant the Maroons were building up a defence against rushes not allowed under the code. After the first period, the wings were warned of this, and they attended more strictly to the rule.

Montreal Gazette, April 5, 1926 (Eastern rules, 3-2 Victoria)

Benedict finally allowed a goal and it was a soft one.

They evened the score in the last minute of the first session on a soft goal by Slim Halderson, who shot from the blue line. Benedict ducked his head as the disc went whistling over the top of the net. The puck struck the wire netting in front of Goal Umpire Dave Ritchie and bounded back to the top of the netting on the Maroon goal. It balanced there for a moment and, as Benedict was turning around to look for the puck, the rubber took a slow fall into the goal.

Maroons were weaker defensively in this game. It seems they had been great defensively in the NHL final against Ottawa, in addition to the first two Cup games.

At the other end, the Maroons were not the steady machine defensively that they were in the games with Ottawa for the National Hockey League title. There they played masterful hockey. Saturday night Noble (D), Stewart (D), and Munro (D sub) were unsteady at times. They left Victoria players unmarked. Loughlin had a clear road in to nail Frederickson's rebound and put the Cougars in the lead, while Frederickson tricked the defence for the westerners' final tally.

Again no mention of Benedict's performance (or Stewart's this time) while reviewing the team performances.

Broadbent (RW) was the hardest working player on the ice. This veteran was indefatigable in his efforts to score...Siebert (LW) flashed at intervals for the Maroons and he burned shots from all angles. He earned his goal. He had other good chances, but was off in his direction...Phillips (C) defensively was brilliant. He worked hard on attack, but could not get through the tight Victoria defence to nail the rebounds he sought...Noble (D) time and again tried to work a score by carrying play to the corners and whipping passes across the goal-mouth. The Cougars were prepared for this style of attack and completely tied up the players lying in wait for the puck in front of the Victoria goal.

Montreal Gazette, April 7, 1926 (Western rules, Maroons 2-0)

We get shot totals! And also an assessment that the totals fairly represented the balance of play. Maroons look very strong defensively.

A glance at the record of shots on the two goalkeepers during the night gives a fair indication of the balance of play held by the Maroons. Altogether Holmes was called on to make 38 saves, two of which he missed. At the other end Benedict blocked 22 shots which were dead on the goal and in doing so for the third time in four games shut out the Cougars.

On the series Montreal scored ten goals and Victoria three - figures which legve little room for argument as to the relative merits of the two teams.

The difference between the winners and losers was largely in aggressiveness. Victoria had speed to burn...but they fell down badly at the defence.

Montreal continually bored in for goals. They sought rebounds off the boards and off Holmes' pads at all times. Phillips (C), Stewart (D), Broadbent (RW), and Siebert (LW) followed through on every shot and were a steady source of worry to the Cougar defensive forces. But not so the westerners. The puck-carrier skated more slowly down the ice and relied on fast-skating wings to get ahead and take forward passes in promising scoring territory. But the punch was not there. From the defence in the Cougars faded. Their wings were bottled and could not shake their checks to get at the offside passes.

More praise for the Maroon team defensive play. Again no mention of Benedict.

Their chief improvement was in the extra sturdiness shown by the defence. Nelson Stewart (D) has never played a more cagey or spectacular game. Determination was marked all over him every time he had the puck--and he had it often. Paired with him on the defence, Reg Noble (D) was the crafty general whose play has been such an integral factor in the Maroons' successes since he joined the club in the middle of last season. Noble played under a severe handicap. His right elbow was badly swollen. But it was an injured leg which gave him the most trouble...Twelve times Noble had blocked shots on the same sore spot, so much so that when he entered the fray last night he could hardly lace his shoe above the swelling and the leg above the ankle was a pulpy mass of bruised tissue.

There was not a weak link on the maroon-clad team in the final tussle for honors. Bill Phillips (C) was a veritable star with his consistent rushes and hard drives, and his more than useful poke check at mid-ice. SIebert (LW) tore over the ice and drilled shots which fairly lifted Holmes off his feet. Punch Broadbent (RW) worked overtime and made more than certain that his left wing opponent, either Hart or Russell Oatman, who alternated against him, did not become dangerous as possible Cougar scorers.

....the much heralded Cougar attack, with its fast-passing forward plays, was wrecked by the strong Maroon defensive and at the end the westerners were exhausted and fairly beaten.

It's notable that Benedict's performance did not feature in the Gazette sportswriter's assessment of the Maroons' performance. The articles usually assessed the performance of all or most of the starting skaters about halfway through, before going into the play by play. It's possible he had a tendency to ignore goalie performance, although he did mention Hap Holmes' performance in one loss as a remarkable feature of the game. I come away with the conclusion that Benedict's performance was largely ignored by the Gazette.

But maybe this is where Mike's point about Hart voting, that writers may be biased to the exciting, is relevant.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Charlie Gardiner's playoffs

1931 Finals

The Habs defeat Chicago 2-1
Shots: Blackhawks 31 Canadiens 33
Blackhawks 0 Canadiens 1

The Nashua Telegraph - April 4, 1931

Gardiner matched in brilliance the performance of George Hainsworth.

The Calgary Daily Herald - April 4, 1931

A quick pickup on the play by Mantha sent him and Lepine on a dash for Gardiner who saved in a sensational style.
As play swung back to the Hawks, Lepine grabbed a loose puck twenty-five feet out with only Gardiner to beat. The Chicago goalie made no mistake. It was a smart save.

Chicago wins 2-1 in double OT
Shots: Blackhawks 48 Canadiens 33
Blackhawks 1 Canadiens 1

The Leader-Post - April 6, 1931

Gardiner Again Brilliant
The remainder of the period saw Les Canadiens sweeping in on Gardiner with three-man attacks. "Chuck" turned back Lepine, Wasnie and Morenz successively.
Nick Wasnie, Gus Rivera, and La Rochelle were through several times but failed to trick Gardiner.

The Montreal Gazette - April 6, 1931

Gardiner made some sensational stops.
The two outstanding men on the ice were George Hainsworth and Chuck Gardiner, the opposing goalies. The game was wide open most of the time with both teams throwing caution to the winds.
The Frenchmen were the aggressors, peppering Gardiner from every angle, but Able and Wentworth made a show on the defence and with Gardiner in one of his better mood, the Hawks skated off holding their lead.

Chicago wins 3-2 in triple OT
Shots: Blackhawks 48 Canadiens 43
Blackhawks 1 Canadiens 2

The Saskatoon Star-Phoenix - April 10, 1931

Gardiner handled Joliat's shot well.
Chuck Gardiner was hurt in a rush on which Joliat missed the net by a fraction. Gardiner retired to the side nursing his ear. He returned for overtime.

Montreal wins 4-2
Shots: Not recorded
Blackhawks 2 Canadiens 2

The Montreal Gazette - April 13, 1931

Chuck Gardiner, the smiling goaltender of the Hawks, was outstanding for his team. With an avalanche of red sweeping in on him regularly throughout the game, Chuck turned in one of the best games games of the season, turning away shots that appeared tagged for goals.He had no chance ont he four that beat him.
Gardiner made a miraculous save.
With Lepine and Joliat messing up Chicago attacks at centre ice, they broke down time and again only to be robbed by Gardiner.

Hainsworth shuts out Chicago 2 0
Shots: Blackhawks 19 Canadiens 29
Blackhawks 2 Canadiens 3

The Edmonton Journal - April 15, 1931

Gagnon, Morenz, and Joliat continually in Hawk territory and Gardiner performing beautifully to keep them out.
Morenz out loose with one of his old-time rushes which carried him through the defence and in on Gardiner. The goalie made a perfect sliding save.

1934 Finals

Chicago beats Detroit 2-1 in OT.
Shots: Blackhawks 42 Red Wings 23
Blackhawks 1 Red Wings 0

The Saskatoon Star-Phoenix - April 4, 1934

Charlie Gardiner, the master craftsman of Chicago Black Hawks, had opened up a slender lead today in the Stanley Cup duel of goaltenders over 23-year-old Wilf Cude, the toast of Detroit, and the most apt of the puck-stopping apprentices who seek the Gardiner throne.
The Wings, or any other team for that matter, have yet to make Gardiner yield more than two goals in the playoffs.

Chicago beats Detroit 4-1
Shots: Blackhawks 31 Red Wings 22
Blackhawks 2 Red Wings 0

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix - April 6, 1934

Tommy Gorman's brigade, built along defensive lines and around two stars, Charlie Gardiner and Lionel Conacher.
Gardiner gave a great exhibition of net minding.

Detroit rebounds with a 5-2 victory. Cude receives high praise
Shots: Blackhawks 44 Red Wings 36
Black Hawks 2 Red Wings 1

The Montreal Gazette - April 9, 1934

Gardiner Lets In Easy-looking Shot from Young
The King of hockey netmen, Charlie Gardiner, permitted a soft shot from outside his defence to bounce over his feet.
The great Gardiner
Gardiner make a grandstand save

Chicago wins 1-0 in double OT
Shots: Blackhawks 54 Red Wings 39
Blackhawks 3 Red Wings 1

Cude receives high praise. Nothing of note from Gardiner.



Gardiner is certainly held in the highest of esteem, used as the byname for best goalie in the world. How the Montreal players treat him at the end of the 1931 Finals is very interesting. I think by 1934 he had established himself as the easy best goalie in the world. I will note though, that in the 1934 Finals Cude receives as much praise as Gardiner, but that might be related to him having to face far more shots.

I'm a bit torn. He's spoken of in the highest regard, but the actual game to game praise isn't what I was expecting from the greatest of all time.