HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 2

[Michael Farkas]

Georges Vezina

Pros

• Remembered by most who saw him as the greatest goaltender of early hockey, and was considered the GOAT for decades

Clint Benedict -

Remembered by some as the best of his era

Chuck was inducted into the 1945 inaugural class of the Hockey Hall of Fame. He was just an incredible goalie, the best of his generation, and without a doubt the best the game had seen up until that point.

All right, fellows...don't to be reductive, but which is it?


(also, awesome post @overpass - there's even notes about how they played! :swoon: )

 

[jigglysquishy]

My hold up on Gardiner is really centered around career length. His first two years the Blackhawks are awful and his stats aren't great. But in that third season you start to see references to him being the best goalie ever. How much do we weigh 5 all time great seasons? Well, we voted Sawchuk high.

On the other hand, Vezina's praise isn't as high but is consistent for 14 seasons. I think that in 1925 he had done enough to be the greatest goalie of all time.

Going over both Benedict's and Vezina's careers I'm confident with Vezina ahead.

Brimsek upsets this whole balance too. Lots of greatest all time quotes in his prime.

All are realistic candidates to go high this round.

 

[VanIslander]

Both Gardiner and Vezina were inducted in the inaugural class of 1945.

No goalie in the next class of inductees, nor the class thereafter, nor the class thereafter, nor the class thereafter.

Not until the boatload class of 1958 when Moran and Connell were inducted were early era goalies inducted.

So,... Gardiner & Vezina deserve to be spoken about in the same breath.

 

[VanIslander]

Benedict wasn't inducted in the first dozen classes.

(After 11 other goalies. It wasn't until 1966.)

Why not?

 

[Professor What]

Benedict wasn't inducted in the first dozen classes.

(After 11 other goalies. It wasn't until 1966.)

Why not?

I don't know, but I'd tend to think it was because of the drinking problem.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Benedict wasn't inducted in the first dozen classes.

(After 11 other goalies. It wasn't until 1966.)

Why not?

As posited upthread, perhaps given the general feeling of "worst skater/athlete/stickhandler/whatever" is relegated to goalie...maybe they weren't considered very important/inpactful...?

 

[nabby12]

Benedict wasn't inducted in the first dozen classes.

(After 11 other goalies. It wasn't until 1966.)

Why not?

The Hockey Hall of Fame was and still is to some extent an "old boys club."

Benedict ruffled a lot of people's feathers throughout his playing career that seemed to have an effect on his Hall of Fame status. Stats-wise and looking at his career, he should have been inducted within the first five years of the Hockey Hall of Fame existing. However, for one, Benedict had problems with alcohol that led to Ottawa getting rid of him at the height of his career. He was able to resurrect his career with the Maroons and won another Stanley Cup, but the damage was done.

This is not confirmed either by any means (and honestly how can it), but his family members have rumoured to me that he had gotten in trouble with an under-aged girl during his career and it was quietly swept under the rug and wasn't in the press.

Personality-wise, he was also very abrasive, a "my way or the highway" type of guy, that you can see with the whole falling down on his knees to make saves when it was still illegal and eventually having the rule changed.

Benedict was finally inducted in 1966, I believe, after a couple of people on the selection committee had passed away, who were keeping him out over the years.

 

[VanIslander]

I don't know, but I'd tend to think it was because of the drinking problem.

Haha.

Newsy Lalonde was far from alone in having whiskey in his pocket at all times.

Howe said he didn't like to spend time with teammates off ice because of all the drinking.

The Silver Seven over a century ago got so drunk they kicked the Stanley Cup into a river and didn't retrieve it until sobering up a day later.

Not inducting Benedict in the 1950's and 1960's because of drinking? ... absurd.

 

[VanIslander]

Benedict was finally inducted in 1966, I believe, after a couple of people on the selection committee had passed away, who were keeping him out over the years.

GIVE AT LEAST ONE CITATION, ONE REFERENCE.

I've read hundreds of hockey history books and never heard any such thing, or anything close to it.

 

[nabby12]

GIVE AT LEAST ONE CITATION, ONE REFERENCE.

I've read hundreds of hockey history books and never heard any such thing, or anything close to it.

Source: my conversations with Clint's family, who know the situation more than anyone. Now take a hike.

Do you think that Benedict wasn't inducted for 21 years because his career wasn't up to par with other inductees before him...? Not sure what you're trying to argue here.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I don't want to read too much into the HHoF order.

Durnan and Brimsek had to wait.

Cleghorn had to wait. Fredrickson had to wait. Conacher had to wait. Like 20 all time greats waited way post retirement in the early HHOF years.

The order is largely inconsistent with how they were perceived at the time and are on this forum. The order gets a lot "cleaner" in the late 60s.

 

[nabby12]

These are the list of goalies who were inducted to HHOF after Gardiner/Vezina and before Benedict:

Alec Connell, Hugh Lehman, Tiny Thompson, George Hainsworth, Percy LeSueur, Riley Hern, Bouse Hutton, Bill Durnan.

I don't think the HHOF-order is a good basis for ranking goaltenders all time...

I don't want to read too much into the HHoF order.

Durnan and Brimsek had to wait.

Cleghorn had to wait. Fredrickson had to wait. Conacher had to wait. Like 20 all time greats waited way post retirement in the early HHOF years.

The order is largely inconsistent with how they were perceived at the time and are on this forum. The order gets a lot "cleaner" in the late 60s.

Yeah exactly. Like I said, it was a big time Old Boys Club in the beginning.

 

[VanIslander]

Source: my conversations with Clint's family, who know the situation more than anyone. Now take a hike.

K. I need some fresh air.