HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 1

overpass

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Jun 7, 2007
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He was 41 years old in 2006, had a 28-10-4 season with a great .925 season in Ottawa.

He came back the next season in Detroit to be 3rd in all-star voting at age 42.

And the NHL's all-time career save percentage leader is being labelled "not reliable" because of a MOMENT in Ottawa.

A Moment in Ottawa, ... sounds like the title of a Harlequin.

More accurate would be a month in Ottawa.

I was there. I know how good he was when he played. You don't need to convince me. And I also know that the team was expecting him back at any time for two months, and their season ended in the second round with him still refusing to play a game.

I'm not here to say Hasek deserves all the the blame for the loss. GM John Muckler (yes, Muckler again) and coach Bryan Murray should have had a better backup goaltender, should have managed Hasek's workload better, and should have known that Hasek might just decide he couldn't play. But it says something that after the playoffs, the Sens players did not want Hasek back the following year. They were furious that he refused to play while the team lost.
 
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VanIslander

20 years of All-Time Drafts on HfBoards
Sep 4, 2004
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Wait Gretzky...

I've never heard a negative word about him (other than hit-related; absorbed & delivered).

Is there a very public example of Gretzky poor play?

*crickets*
 

seventieslord

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So just ignoring when they led. Once in 16 years, and then 3 times in 4 years (missing the playoffs all 3 years, so not juggernaut NJ.)

22 teams don't enter into it.

St Louis 5
Detroit 4
New Jersey 4
Dallas 2
Boston 2
Edmonton 1
San Jose 1
Chicago 1

Lowest seasons

STL 1999-00 22.1
STL 2001-02 22.5
STL 1998-99 22.8
DAL 1997-98 22.8
PHI 1998-99 22.9
NJD 2012-13 23.1
The 22 teams who never had the fewest SOGA/GP are certainly part of this data set you're referring to. This is just abuse of statistics, and it's misleading. It is to make it sound like New Jersey wasn't actually elite at shot suppression, when they actually were.

Over the course of those 20 seasons, the Devils had the fewest shots against per game. Reducing it to how many times they - in a 30-team league - were outright last in shots against, is IMO deliberately phrased to obscure that.

If someone made the following point:

"You think the Devils were so good at winning cups? Well, consider this: From 1995 through 2002-03, a span of nine seasons, guess how many cups they won. Just three. 1995, 2000, and 2003. That's all."

...I'd be rightfully called out. Because three in 9 seasons is actually a f***ton, and that means the NHL's other 29 teams won the other six between them.
 

Michael Farkas

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Jun 28, 2006
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I see the underrating of / ignoring Tretiak is at full swing.
Tretiak is available in the first round of voting. So, I'm not sure that he's being underrated or ignored.
The term "Tretiak" appeared 33 times on page 6 alone and that discussion continued on to page 7. So I wouldn't say that he's being ignored.
Also, much of the talk around him is positive. So I don't think he's being underrated either.

Unless you're going to claim that he's the #1 goalie of all time. In which case, I doubt you're going to be able to "drive-by" your way to convincing the panel of that.
 

overpass

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Jun 7, 2007
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Plus, and this may be a stupid way to look at it, but... from watching games, I really think Tretiak is a lot better than the next non-NHL European goalie, both before and after his time. Like, a lot better. So then, the question for me is, how did he become so much better than the others without having elite guys to look at and train under? If he had been dealt the hand Hall had been, developing in Detroit 'under' Terry Sawchuk, then only given the starter reins as a seasoned 24 year old rather than as a green 19 year old... would Tretiak have been even better?

I've been reading Tretiak's book, "Tretiak: A Legend". He had positive things to say about Konovalenko and other older Soviet goalies who were supportive, but his biggest influences were Anatoli Tarasov and Jacques Plante.

Tarasov identified Tretiak as his goaltender of the future when Tretiak was only 15, giving him chances to practice with the senior team, and started working intensively with him after the 1969 European U19 championship, when Tretiak was only 16. Tarasov thought Bohumil Modry was the most physically gifted goaltender he had seen, but Modry didn't apply himself in training. In Tretiak, Tarasov saw another Modry when it came to his physical gifts, and also someone who would apply hard work and intelligence to improve.

Tarasov established a task for himself; to make Tretiak the best goaltender. "The best in the country?" I asked. Anatoly frowned at me. "In the world! Remember this once and for all: In the world!" he said.

Tretiak said that Tarasov put an incredible workload on him. He had three practices a day, and Tarasov frequently invented new exercises just for him. He played in a game almost every day, sometimes for the juniors, the intermediates, or the seniors. And he had to carry a tennis ball with him everywhere off the ice, throwing it and catching it.

Tarasov and Tretiak took Plante as a model for goaltending. Here's Tarasov on Plante, from Tretiak's book.

I studied Plante and noticed that he was using a technique of recoil. He would skate far away from his net to meet the puck carrier, thus decreasing the angle of the shot, and then would recoil back to his net as the player approached. Aha, I though, we can use this technique. I was also stunned by his faultless ability to study his rivals. His intelligence was obvious. He knew how to play each forward that he faced from our team.

Per Tretiak's book, Jacques Plante was interviewed at the 1976 Canada Cup and said Tretiak was the best goaltender in the world. I'd like to get another source for that.

One amusing bit from the book was that Tretiak didn't believe Terry Sawchuk could be a real person.

There are many rumors about the goaltending profession, although truth is greatly mixed with legend. Once, for example, I read that one of the professional teams had a goalie who, in 110 games had not missed a single goal, and that on his face, he had more than four hundred scars. I think that this is a figment of someone's imagination.

Anyway, it's true that Tretiak didn't have great Russian or European goalies to learn from, but the coaching and attention he got from Tarasov as a teenager is probably unique in history. I doubt Sawchuk, Hall, or Plante received anywhere near as much direct instruction.
 

Bear of Bad News

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This is from the Montreal Gazette, September 7, 1976:

1728317941431.png



It's not "best in the world" (and if Plante did say that, I'm surprised it's not mentioned here), and it's possible that the comments came after the tournament.
 

ContrarianGoaltender

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Feb 28, 2007
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Tarasov and Tretiak took Plante as a model for goaltending. Here's Tarasov on Plante, from Tretiak's book.

I studied Plante and noticed that he was using a technique of recoil. He would skate far away from his net to meet the puck carrier, thus decreasing the angle of the shot, and then would recoil back to his net as the player approached. Aha, I though, we can use this technique. I was also stunned by his faultless ability to study his rivals. His intelligence was obvious. He knew how to play each forward that he faced from our team.

Per Tretiak's book, Jacques Plante was interviewed at the 1976 Canada Cup and said Tretiak was the best goaltender in the world. I'd like to get another source for that.

Didn't find anything to corroborate that quote in Todd Denault's book on Jacques Plante, but Plante was definitely a model for the Russians, which goes back to his performance against them when he stepped in for the Montreal Junior Canadiens against the Soviets in 1965.

Here's Anatoly Tarasov after that game:

"You want me to talk about Jacques Plante? We only knew him by name. Tonight, not only did we meet him, we felt his presence. I'd like to ask you to thank him - to say thank you to Jacques Plante on behalf of all of us. I am speechless when I see him play. I hope I can say that the Russian team deserved to meet such a goaltender. It was a great honour for us to play against him."

Ed Johnston, who was on Team Canada in 1972 although he didn't play, observed that Tretiak was influenced by Plante:

"You can see Jacques' scientific approach in the way Tretiak plays. He doesn't go down on the angles. And he turns with the play when an attacker cuts in front of the net, just the way Jacques does."

And there's this additional quote from Plante on Tretiak, about the conversations the two of them had:

"I didn't really teach him that much, just a little about playing the angles and positioning himself in the net. Tretiak has to learn to use his stick a little more and how to control the puck with it in the goal area."
 

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