HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 1

[Michael Farkas]

Bubarian?

I've always wondered too. That sequence is from a seldom-played Rolling Stones song called "Send It To Me"...

 

[MXD]

Bubarian?

A Barbarian who caught the Bubonic Plague.

Every sixth grader knows this.

 

[DN28]

The way Hašek handled the controversial 1997 playoffs situation has been a point of criticism against him. I don't think anyone ever covered Hašek's take on the whole 2-season coaching period of Ted Nolan though.

Hašek goes into great detail describing the Sabres locker room in 1996 and 1997 in his - as far as I know - only authorized biography. The book is called "Chytám svůj život" co-authored by Robert Záruba and published after the 1999 season. I'll stay away from any of comments. The text speaks for itself.

(p. 252-253)
About unsuccessful '96 season

Sabres during the times of that Nolan

Nolan and me never befriended. I always had an impression that he doesn't understand hockey. He had no clue about the system of the game. Boys on the ice received no assignments. It looked to me that everybody played for himself. I didn't understand what Nolan wants from them. Before the game he never said anything other than… “…We have to play with maximum effort!”

Nothing more. He couldn't even “go mad” as Keenan, could not go through tactics either. It seemed to me that he maintained no order in the team. He never derived any consequences from losses. No pressure was put on the team. They always reminded us that we are young inexperienced squad. Nobody counted with us for the playoffs. We were bad and no one seemed to care.

In a game, we were failing every other shift, the opponent had forty shots on goal and Nolan didn't complain. He didn't say that we have to defend with more discipline nor did he say where he saw mistakes, just nothing. We led 2-1 and boys were forchecking in three men 2 minutes before the end. Opponent easily outnumbered us but “it was no one's fault”. Even Muckler yelled at us at times and at the end he commanded: “So. Now, I want you all to be at 9 pm in your rooms!“

Nolan never did anything like that from the beginning. He wanted to be friendly with players. In that first year, it sometimes happened that he went for a beer with the young boys – Barnaby, Dawe, Audette and others. Which is unthinkable in the NHL. What can he then tell them at the bench if they neglect anything?

(…)
I disliked that he doesn't care for an order in the team. In the goal, I felt the noticeably higher number of shots. Suddenly 36 shots on goal on average per game were directed at me, while we had kept it below the 30 before. In that season I faced 2011 shot attempts of the opposing teams, the most out of the NHL. On the ice, we ran a complete mess everywhere. But Nolan excused the mistakes, we were still “too young, we fought…”. We were losing and he made no inferences whatsoever.

Nolan’s trainings were so much easier than Muckler’s. Less skating. His two assistants, especially Don Lever, who prepared game tactics, drew PP schemes and led meetings, were his biggest luck. Nolan stood in the locker room before the game and watched. Said nothing.

(p. 254)

Later I discovered that Nolan followed the team through his selected players. He invited them to private meetings, he sometimes visited them at home. With this approach, Nolan later lost my sympathy completely. When I got to know this way of „Teddie’s“ work more, I had no interest to help him. This has nothing to do with coach being the tough guy or nice. I just didn’t respect him.

First conflict with Matthew Barnaby happened already in this season. (…) We sucked the whole season. We were losing again in Detroit. Barnaby totally unneccessarily fouled and we had to defend in three. He then didn’t get back with his player and I couldn’t stand that.

„Barny, damn it, what are you doing? Keep your player and don’t look for where to stab whom!“

Barnaby got angry and f***ed me off. This was his first regular NHL season and I thought he’s too young to snap at someone like that. And yet, I had the biggest anger at Nolan because he doesn’t tell him anything the whole year, and so Barnaby could do whatever he wishes.

(p. 269)
Before the 1997 season’s start

Muckler didn’t imagine his coach like that. As a GM, he demanded his coach giving him reports about the team situation. Which player is injured, how the key players are feeling and so on. Nolan couldn’t care less about such things.

I always respected Muckler, whatever he was like. I didn’t value Nolan at all. When Muckler traded for Miroslav Šatan with Edmonton, journalists asked Nolan for opinion. „This player doesn’t fall into my team concept…“ or „I’ve never heard of him.“

(…)

Nolan extracted a final concession from Muckler: releasing his 2nd assistant Terry Martin, whom he replaced with his own man. He, in his forty, looked like a 68 y/o man – and he also didn’t understand hockey. He was mumbling nonsense, talking gibberish all the time.

(p. 275)
On the ongoing 1997 season

Nolan’s position with players was very diverse. He was indifferent to half of the team. Seven or eight boys, of whom none of them played much before and got a chance under him, praised him a lot, of course.

Captain assistant Garry Galley adored him. LaFontaine had a concussion, didn’t live with the team and we we were left without the captain. And so suddenly, Galley pushed himself on his spot.

Every morning, he moved first to chat with Nolan and then entered the locker room. Every day without exception.

I happened to stop understanding Galley’s behaviour. After a training, one of the ‚single‘ players told me a story from a night club. We laughed and went home. I was walking nearby the open door of coach‘ office right in the moment when Galley was ending his take on the very same story.

(…)

No one from Europeans liked Nolan because of his insults that we are taking „foreign money“. Nolan once said about Václav Varaďa that he can’t work hard and that he won’t be playing under him. And he swept him down to AHL for 2 years. In totality though, there were more players for Nolan than against him.

Ordinary folk from Buffalo also stood more on his side against Muckler. New coach gained their favor through good results and play. Everyone believed it was his work. I concede that he was the coach but Muckler… constructed the team and coaching wise, Don Lever as the true strategist, led us far more.

Whole city saw Nolan behind our improvement which I couldn’t accept. But I wanted everything in our team to be OK so I didn’t say anything out loud against the head coach.

Nolan even got the writers to back him. Muckler and the main columnist of Buffalo News, Jim Kelley, hated each other. Kelly presided the Hockey writers association of the NHL and had a privileged position in the town. „Muckler can’t be denied of merits due to the building of the team,“ Kelly usually wrote, „but… however…“ etc. People read that and took the Nolan’s side.

(p. 280-281)
On the successful '97 regular season

Truth, we worked it through, but I took this season as nothing more than lucky accident. It was the maximum we could have achieved with a coach of this nature and of this attitude. (…) I was like a split personality. (…) Later I said publicly memorable statement: „I’ll be only happy if Ted Nolan is relieved from Buffalo Sabres. Team can only profit from that.“

I knew I’ll get in conflict with some boys who had different view and liked „Teddie“. And some of them were even my friends. But I thought that after 2 years in NHL they hardly knew anything about hockey and how to win…

(…)

We were losing a lot by the season’s end. I guess I became alergic to Nolan but I couldn’t stand how he excused these defeats. We won two games out of the last eleven… We finally secured the 1st place in the Northeast division but a little small thing ruined my mood.

There was a champagne in the locker room…

„What the hell are we celebrating,“ I’m saying, „we won a division, so what?!“

We opened few bottles. „…Let Dominik have a speech!“

So I said: „Congratulations to coach, players, Buffalo Sabres management… it is beautiful, awesome, but we mainly have to keep winning in the playoffs.“

Garry Galley stood up... (…) „I’d like to dedicate this puck to whom is the most deserving. Which is…“

(...) „Jesus, what’s he thinking, he may have even say my name.“ I thought myself in a tense silence.

„…our coach Ted Nolan!“

(…) Entire evening was ruined for me. I remembered all of their conspiratory meetings in Nolan’s office and felt awful.

 

[DN28]

(p. 283-284)
Talking about the 3rd game against Ottawa in the playoff 1st round.

I was playing great, we won 1-0. Ottawa d-man shot a puck from the blue line in the middle of the game. He aimed to the left post – I went for a save, but the puck changed its trajectory from someone’s knee to the upper right corner. No chance. I tried to get back and salvage the situation with a shoulder. The way I quickly changed my move, my right knee cracked! Puck swiftly flew into the net above me, the arena roared and I lied on the ice. It was clear this series is just over for me.

(…) I borrowed a phone and called Alena. [=Dominik’s wife]

„Alčo, it’s bad. Looks like 4 Sundays out. At minimum.“

Scared Muckler ran down to the room in two minutes. I was afraid to tell him something like that.

„John, it looks for about 2 weeks out.“

„Let’s see what doctor says,“ Muckler responded.

We missed our orthopedist that day in Ottawa. Doctor Butsch oversaw me, a master for suturing wounds, as every Buffalo can attest. Great guy, but not a surgeon. Butsh scanned the knee, touched it.

„Is it swollen… does it hurt here?... I think a week out, not more.“

„We’ll say day-to-day officially,“ Muckler proposed.

That meant, I’m counted to return in a few days. But I felt that, no matter they say to newspapers, the knee is bad. I changed my clothes, iced the injured spot. We were losing 1-2 after two periods.

(…) I took the suit and went to encourage the boys to the bench which got back at me later. (…) We won 3-2.

(…) Teammates asked about my injury. „The knee,“ I answered shortly. What will I be explaining to them. But Muckler insisted on me speaking with journalists.

„It was a deflected shot… my knee snapped…,“ I tried to describe it all diligently.

„For how long does it look?“

„Hard to say. But I know one thing for sure: I’m not playing in this series.“ That was certain but I knew the healing will definitely take longer.

„But the organization states day-to-day.“

„I know. But I also know my knee.“

I kept repeating myself over again. (…) Eventually I stayed longer than most of my teammates. I was limping out when Frank Musil showed up at the entrance at the same moment!

[Musil and Hašek grew up and played hockey together in Pardubice since early childhood]

„I’ve got a car. Wanna take a ride?“ During the playoffs opponents aren’t supposed to talk but I didn’t care now. I knew I won’t play again the series. So we went to Frank’s home. He was pissed off too because he didn’t play in the playoffs at all… I slept over at Musils' home.

I returned to hotel in the morning, drew with the boys to the rink where Muckler gave me to read the Buffalo News. I looked at unbelievable column of Jim Kelley. I had to read it several times.

„Hard to believe that,“ Kelley wrote, „that such an acrobatic goalie gets injured during a regular save. Additionally, it’s strange that we saw no display of pain. Hašek simply got up and skated away. Doctors claim that his injury is not serious but Hašek immediately declares himself unfit for work and claims he definitely won’t start till the series‘ end. We did not see him even with crutches, and instead of cooling his allegedly injured knee, he returned to bench and watched the game… After the game, he gave interviews and he repeated with a smile that he can’t play. But then we saw him running out of the building accompanied with František Musil, countryman from Ottawa.“

The last thing really pissed me off. How could I run if I barely walked?

Jim Kelley wrote prestigious columns to the biggest Buffalo newspapers and organization couldn’t ignore these charges.

„Hašek hadn’t already joined the training in the morning before the game which is not his custom. Hašek participates in every, even voluntary, team trainings.“

Another falsehood. I go to 90 % of them, but I wanted to mentally prepare well that day and take a long sleep. But Kelley also knew that Nolan unexpectedly decided to run a team meeting on breakfast, that I missed. Someone must have snitched on me. Kelley had incredibly accurate news about what’s happening inside the team for that whole season. When I was later thinking about it, I came to conclusion that the person, who distributed discrete information out, was apparently Ted Nolan. That’s my opinion.

„It’s very likely,“ Kelley finishes his column, „that the whole weird injury masks the real truth: Hašek isn’t capable to withstand the playoff pressure!“

So here I am trying my best like an idiot, working for the team, playing the best that I can in spite of several people in the organization making me angry… and he, instead of pitying me (which I don’t want) that I got injured in the season’s climax and can’t play, he makes me a malingerer! And people will believe that if it’s in the papers.

Another articles blamed me for leaving with an opposing player…

„This is just impermissible during playoffs!“ newspapers lambasted me. „Players of rivaling teams must hate each others like enemies. They can’t meet, let alone to drive home together at night.“

How much could I possibly reveal? Just as much as what Frank could to me.

(p. 285) On the incident with Kelley

After ten minutes, I got up to leave. I went to the door in the hall. Jim Kelley walked out from the door next to our locker room in the same moment! (…) He got 2 meters behind me and I started: „You son of a bitch! You’re the most dishonest man I’ve ever seen!“

I shouted at him behind my shoulder but I was slowing down and Kelley came closer to me from behind. I turned around and it seemed that we’ll go at each other. He tried to say something, allegedly babbled something like: „We need to talk…,“ but I didn’t listen.

„You f***ing bastard!“ I caught him at his neck and pushed him to the wall. A button from his shirt fell down, two at most. Fortunately I held the game schedule in my hand so couldn’t fight. Teammate Jason Dawe jumped between us and a few other organizers separated us. I know for sure that I wouldn’t punch him. I imediatelly reliazed that it’s a trouble.

(p. 286)
Sabres president Larry Quinn discussed the goalie situation with Hašek after the incident. Quinn intended to use Trefilov.

Shields didn’t play well in the 5th game and organization had worries with replacements. „Trefi“ said after the game that he didn’t play nearly enough for half a year, that he’s past the shoulder surgery and that he won’t play in such situation. He always had some excuse.

„I haven’t been playing here for half a year,“ he complained to me, „and now they want me to go in there… Are they crazy or what?“

He completely wrote himself off in Buffalo. When in America you say you don’t want to play, you’re done in the organization. This could have been his huge opportunity. Andrei is a great goalie but he undid so much thanks to his strange nature!

About subsequent penalty for attacking member of the press

I knew I can’t play with painful knee. I prayed for a penalty now, for upcoming playoff games, which I couldn’t play anyhow. But for that reason, I had to assert that I’m already all right, that I can play again. Otherwise the penalty would be postponed till the time I’m healthy. Muckler thought the same way, and even though it was clear to him that I’m not fit, he pushed me to training sessions.

„Dominik, go to skate, so that we can say there tomorrow, that you’ve been on the ice.“

So I went there to ‚skate‘, to actually push off and brake I couldn’t, of course.

(p. 287-288)

The whole hearing lasted 6 hours. It was almost decided: 2 games stop and a 100k dollars fine… I’d take it because the two games wouldn’t intefere with the next season. Then, they adjusted it to 10k fine and 3 games.

(…)

The worst thing had yet to come. 3 games of punishment passed, Buffalo defeated Ottawa in the 7th game OT, the division final with Philadelphia begun and I was supposed to step in. I couldn’t!

I had to keep going on the ice so that Bettman and Burke won’t see me through. But I trained standing like a scarecrow. Last day before the penalty expired, I had very carefuly tried to kneel down to a butterfly and found out that I really can’t play. What now?!

Muckler threw the players and coach out of the locker room, we sit down just the two of us.

„John, I still can’t play. What am I supposed to do?“

„You’re too good even without the knee. Boys wil be playing better just because you start…“ We were losing the series with Flyers 0-3.

„I’d like to, but I really can’t.“ It was obvious I can’t play.

„You’ll see, it’ll be OK.“ Muckler would have sent me there even without a leg.

„I understand,“ I nodded it off. „I’ll be OK.“

I knew I can’t enter the game and I think Mucker understood that after this conversation. I went around my closest teammates – Grošek, Plante, May – and I prepared them: „I can’t, boys. Be ready that I won’t play.“

(…)

A lot of people thought that I didn’t want to play for this team because of this convoluted story. But it wasn’t true at all.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

A Barbarian who caught the Bubonic Plague.

Every sixth grader knows this.

Hey, I still remember the "Cheers" episode where Cliff explains that the bubonic plague was started by the bubon.

I won't give away the punchline.

 

[VanIslander]

"Unrelated note". Just curious...a lot of these guys are listed as "this is the goalie I wanted to be"...I realized that I had never heard that about Dryden, was wondering if anyone knew anyone that did.

Again, you are back to disciples. Save it for church.

If a youngum wanted to be Hasek, they'd have to see a therapist.

Dryden was my first hockey hero. I have stated it here 10, 15, and 20 years ago on this site. But he retired early and suddenly the hockey world turned its back on him. He went instantly from hero to zero. He gave up on hockey and lost his gravitas.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

If a youngum wanted to be Hasek, they'd have to see a therapist.

I used to coach goalies to "play like Hasek". The structure works.

 

[jigglysquishy]

But he retired early and suddenly the hockey world turned its back on him. He went instantly from hero to zero. He gave up on hockey and lost his gravitas.

This isn't really accurate.

Dryden has been a major hockey name since his retirement. He wrote perhaps the most famous hockey book, has had statues erected, his number retired, and even did commentary. His legend has been huge even 45 years post career. Hell, he ran for PM in 2006 solely on the back of his hockey career.

He finished 5th in the 1998 Hockey News list for goalies. He finished 4th on TheScore list. He finished 4th on the Athletic's top since 1967 list. The hockey canon has him firmly as the best NHL goalie ~1965-1985.

Ken Dryden is absolutely loved in the hockey world and Canada as a whole.

 

[VanIslander]

I used to coach goalies to "play like Hasek". The structure works.

You be you! Break every rule. Throw your stick away. Turn your back to the play. Be gumby-like foolish as long as you get the job done. Do whatever it takes to get the job done regardless how it looks. Use whatever means possible to succeed, however it may be seen. Just stop the puck.

The snow angel:

 

[Bear of Bad News]

“Break every rule” is the easiest way to say that you don’t know what Hasek is doing.

It’s okay - most don’t. But he’s following rules.

 

[VanIslander]

This isn't really accurate.

Dryden has been a major hockey name since his retirement. He wrote perhaps the most famous hockey book, has had statues erected, his number retired, and even did commentary. His legend has been huge even 45 years post career. Hell, he ran for PM in 2006 solely on the back of his hockey career.

He finished 5th in the 1998 Hockey News list for goalies. He finished 4th on TheScore list. He finished 4th on the Athletic's top since 1967 list. The hockey canon has him firmly as the best NHL goalie ~1965-1985.

Ken Dryden is absolutely loved in the hockey world and Canada as a whole.

All that is true yet what i said is true, too.

I've been talking hockey with guys since the 1970s and Dryden disappeared from best-ever convos ('convo' was not a word back then, btw, but neither was 'btw'). He was respected for backstopping a dynasty but he was kicked out of best ever discussions, which reverted to Sawchuk, Hall and Plante in the 1980s (my middle school and high school years).

 

[seventieslord]

This isn't really accurate.

Dryden has been a major hockey name since his retirement. He wrote perhaps the most famous hockey book, has had statues erected, his number retired, and even did commentary. His legend has been huge even 45 years post career. Hell, he ran for PM in 2006 solely on the back of his hockey career.

He finished 5th in the 1998 Hockey News list for goalies. He finished 4th on TheScore list. He finished 4th on the Athletic's top since 1967 list. The hockey canon has him firmly as the best NHL goalie ~1965-1985.

Ken Dryden is absolutely loved in the hockey world and Canada as a whole.

Don't forget that by 1997 he still carried enough cachet that the Leafs signed him as president, a title he held for 7 years.

 

[Johnny Engine]

I personally find it quite exasperating that every Hasek highlight video is made up of multiple examples if him making the same move in the same situations, over and over again, with 300 comments about how he had no style.
It strikes me as an active unwillingness to learn anything.

 

[VanIslander]

“Break every rule” is the easiest way to say that you don’t know what Hasek is doing.

It’s okay - most don’t. But he’s following rules.

Hence the snow angel vid i linked which breaks it down, showing Brodeur and Miller copying the move.

He also has been analyzed to reduce decision making by going one side and leaving over half the net open, reducing his reflex decision to lunge or not lunge (knowing most shooters are gonna go for the big hole), unlike most goalies who square up and have to decide from 3 options: to stay or go right or left.

“Break every rule” is the easiest way to say that you don’t know what Hasek is doing.

It’s okay - most don’t. But he’s following rules.

Following?

He was making new rules.

 

[MXD]

But he retired early and suddenly the hockey world turned its back on him. He went instantly from hero to zero. He gave up on hockey and lost his gravitas.

That possibly happened in another timeline.

 

[VanIslander]

Don't forget that by 1997 he still carried enough cachet that the Leafs signed him as president, a title he held for 7 years.

I know. I shook his hand in Ottawa when his Leafs were in town for the playoffs (i was a grad student and p/t journo); and i told him he was my first hero and it took Gretzky to "be him" (meant to replace him - he smiled, got the idea). I am 6'1 but he looked 7 feet tall. Maybe his shoes, my fandom, the moment, but i was looking up, felt like a child.

 

[VanIslander]

Fun fan note:

When you see a long line of autograph seekers, and you want to save an hour or more, then simply ditch the ink and cut the queue with a request to shake their hand. I didn't pre-plan it, but Dryden immediately dropped his pen and walked up to me and shook my hand and we talked. Then he went back to the table, i walked away ngaf what the long line of autograph seekers thought. I was only in Ottawa for the day.

 

[VanIslander]

That said, from the late 1970's onwards, i had no confidence that Dryden vs. Tretiak would ever end in other than a tie (as it did in an epic way - thankfully no shoot outs back then - a tie is honorable, as sometimes there is equal play and rock, paper, scissors is not satisfying, aka the last NFL game on Thursday night.

 

[VanIslander]

TIERS is about how close guys are to each other.

Roy & Hasek are on a tier.
Dryden & Tretiak are on a tier.
Hall, Sawchuk and Plante are on a tier.

Maybe the tiers mesh. But everyone on those tiers deserves to be CLOSE to someone else on their tier.

 

[rmartin65]

TIERS is about how close guys are to each other.

Roy & Hasek are on a tier.
Dryden & Tretiak are on a tier.
Hall, Sawchuk and Plante are on a tier.

Maybe the tiers mesh. But everyone on those tiers deserves to be CLOSE to someone else on their tier.

The fact that the players in the tiers you listed largely had significant career overlap is suspicious to me.

 

[VanIslander]

Yes!

 

[overpass]

I'm just going to write down where I am now.

Patrick Roy - I'm almost ready to have him #1. Good discussion about his team support - I think he was better than his numbers in Colorado, but he definitely had great support early in his career. He was basically at least very good for his whole career. But I keep wondering if he has the peak level of play to be #1.

Dominik Hasek - I appreciate hearing his side of the story about 1997. But he has the 2006 playoffs against him as well. It's pretty clear he refused to play if he wasn't at his best, at times when others might have tried. He has incredible career length and maybe the highest peak, but the lack of reliability hurts. His time in Ottawa is still easily the best goaltending I've seen the Ottawa Senators get.

He might end up at #1 for me if I can be convinced his peak is solidly ahead of Roy. But I keep looking at 2001-02 when Hasek changed teams and Colorado played more defensively and suddenly Roy was better, and wondering if the save percentage really tells an accurate story from 1993-2000.

Martin Brodeur - I've typically ranked him around #6, based on his strong team support throughout his career and lack of peak. But I'm keeping an open mind and reading the deeper dive into his team support. He could move up.

Terry Sawchuk - We've discussed his incredible peak, and why he didn't maintain that level. One thing that I still find hard to square with his record in the second half of his career is that NHL teams basically never stopped believing in him. The Red Wings had a good team in the early-mid 60s and kept bringing Sawchuk back as the starter, even as he kept fading in the second half of the season. And when he was signed by the Los Angeles Kings for the first expansion season, they paid him $40,000 for that season, one of the highest salaries in the league. Hall and Plante were paid the same and signed after Sawchuk, who set the market.

Sawchuk deserves credit for playing at a very difficult time for goaltenders, when it took a ton of mental and physical courage to play the position in the NHL. When he broke into the NHL, most teams had two or three players with a hard shot, and most goals were scored on deflections and rebounds. Sawchuk played in a crouch to track the puck better with no mask, taking shots to the face and famously getting hundreds of stitches over his career. By the end of his career, almost every player shot the puck hard, and he was putting his face out there the whole time, only wearing a primitive mask in the second half of his career. Maybe it's too much to expect consistency under those conditions. What would he look like if he was born 40 years later, with better masks and equipment?

Jacques Plante - There's a lot to like. Yes he played for a great team, but that's not his fault. He definitely could have played in the NHL earlier but was behind Gerry McNeil. Like the high end hockey sense, like the fact that he basically wrote the book on the position.

Glenn Hall - I know he has all the all star votes, but I don't know if anybody ever thought he was the best ever. I can't put him over Plante, and I think I'll have Sawchuk ahead as well on peak. I'd like to look into his playoffs more to see how much he was to blame for Chicago falling short - I think Billy Reay and the skaters had a lot to do with it, but that doesn't mean Hall was blameless. I'll probably have him below Tretiak unless I can be convinced he was good in the playoffs. Right now my 6-7-8 are Tretiak-Hall-Dryden.

 

[blogofmike]

You may have missed 1968 when Hall won the Conn Smythe trophy.

No, I noticed. If you didn't know he won the trophy, would you guess that he did just based on his play?



This is among the best playoff showings Hall had, but the trophy had more to do with there being no standout Canadiens scorers. From the video, Gump Worsley looks clumsy. Hall's better, and can scramble for a second save far better than Worsley did, but they are often coming off some pretty juicy rebounds. This is one of his best showings, and Hall looks like the guy who absolutely would (and outside of 1961, the record shows every time he did) let in the next goal. The goal in the 1-0 loss in Game 2 is reminiscent of the Beliveau 2-0 goal in Game 7 of 1965 (again, we're talking about his best showings) where Hall clears himself out of the way and gives the shooter almost the whole net to shoot at.

Glenn Hall may have the best regular season All-Star voting record of the 1960s, but he had a noticeable decline in the playoffs.

One thing that stood out to me in Hall's career was that he was the goalie to end the Montreal dynasty in 1961. After 5 straight cups, Chicago defeated the Canadiens in the first round, 4-2. Hall shutout Montreal in games 5 and 6. Also won game 3 in triple OT, 2-1. Hall had a .930 SP for the series, Plante .910.

But the following season, Plante was not only the top goalie, he won the Hart trophy as MVP. But again, in round 1 of the playoffs, Chicago won 4-2. Hall again had a shutout in game 6. With 41 saves in a 2-0 final. Hall's SP was .936 for the series, Plante's .904.

Also find it of interest that Hall had 7 first team all-star selections to Plante and Sawchuk's 3 each. All of Sawchuk's came pre-Hall and Plante. Not sure who voted in those days, but the voters really only had 6 goalies to look at, and they probably saw all of them a lot. So I do put a lot of stock in those selections.

I would agree that 1961 is a fine moment, and his best playoff run. It stands out a little too much though.

If covering head to head playoff matchups, we should also note that despite Sawchuk losing to Hall in the 1961 Finals (Sawchuk was injured early in Game 1, returning to win Game 5 and lose Game 6), Hall would be on the losing end in 1963, 1964 and 1967 (mirroring 1961, Hall played half the games in 1967). Chicago had home ice in each series after 61. Hall had 1st or 2nd AS Team nods each year, and then sent Sawchuk to the Finals.

 

[VanIslander]

Glenn Hall may have the best regular season All-Star voting record of the 1960s, but he had a noticeable decline in the playoffs.

You mean, his team didn't win. He was never identified as the fault for their loss. He won the Conn Smythe years after his prime, as a 36 year old; no one older has. For a losing team, no less.

Has Plante ever been the #1 playoff performer in his many cups with the HHOF-loaded Canadiens playing in front of him?

Dominik Hasek - I appreciate hearing his side of the story about 1997. But he has the 2006 playoffs against him as well. It's pretty clear he refused to play if he wasn't at his best, at times when others might have tried. He has incredible career length and maybe the highest peak, but the lack of reliability hurts.

He was 41 years old in 2006, had a 28-10-4 season with a great .925 season in Ottawa.

He came back the next season in Detroit to be 3rd in all-star voting at age 42.

And the NHL's all-time career save percentage leader is being labelled "not reliable" because of a MOMENT in Ottawa.

A Moment in Ottawa, ... sounds like the title of a Harlequin.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

No, I noticed. If you didn't know he won the trophy, would you guess that he did just based on his play?



This is among the best playoff showings Hall had, but the trophy had more to do with there being no standout Canadiens scorers. From the video, Gump Worsley looks clumsy. Hall's better, and can scramble for a second save far better than Worsley did, but they are often coming off some pretty juicy rebounds. This is one of his best showings, and Hall looks like the guy who absolutely would (and outside of 1961, the record shows every time he did) let in the next goal. The goal in the 1-0 loss in Game 2 is reminiscent of the Beliveau 2-0 goal in Game 7 of 1965 (again, we're talking about his best showings) where Hall clears himself out of the way and gives the shooter almost the whole net to shoot at.

Glenn Hall may have the best regular season All-Star voting record of the 1960s, but he had a noticeable decline in the playoffs.

I would agree that 1961 is a fine moment, and his best playoff run. It stands out a little too much though.

If covering head to head playoff matchups, we should also note that despite Sawchuk losing to Hall in the 1961 Finals (Sawchuk was injured early in Game 1, returning to win Game 5 and lose Game 6), Hall would be on the losing end in 1963, 1964 and 1967 (mirroring 1961, Hall played half the games in 1967). Chicago had home ice in each series after 61. Hall had 1st or 2nd AS Team nods each year, and then sent Sawchuk to the Finals.

Pretty sure we could pick out horrendous goals allowed in the playoffs for all of the great goaltenders.

Hall played all the games in 1961, not half the games as you stated.