HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Preliminary Discussion Thread

[Michael Farkas]

Just to get help "proofreading" my list further, and if it serves Mr. FarKarakas, so be it.

The "Contemporary with Jose Theodore but retired since a while" group. That feels really random, but it fits the period of netminders that I have more than a passing memory of watching.

IN :
Tim Thomas - no
Patrick Roy - oh yes
Nikolai Khabibulin - yes, with Nabokov
Ed Belfour - yes, with Brimsek types
Miikka Kiprusoff - yes, with Gardiner types
John Vanbiesbrouck - yes, near Ryan Miller
Curtis Joseph - yes, with Bobrovsky
Dominik Hasek - yes, with Sawchuk
Evgeni Nabokov - yes, with Khabibulin
Grant Fuhr - yes, with Vernon
Tom Barrasso - yes, with Fuhr
Martin Brodeur- yes, with Plante
Olaf Kolzig - yes, with Schneider
Mike Richter - ugh...yes. With the other positionally or otherwise challenged bubble guys like Liut
Arturs Irbe - yes, with the fun athletes like Rinne and Turco

NOT RANKED, as of now - no to all, except where noted

Guy Hebert - hmm, worth a look
Jose Theodore
Jon Casey
Felix Potvin
Marty Turco - yes, bubble add, with the fun athletes like Irbe and Rinne
JS Giguère
Ilya Bryzgalov
Tomas Vokoun - yes, bubble add, with the adaptable, but flawed types like Sean Burke
Sean Burke - uhh, that's convenient.
Tommy Salo
Ron Tugnutt
Roman Turek
Chris Osgood
Jeff Hackett
Darren Puppa
Bill Ranford
Mike Vernon - yes, with Fuhr
Kelly Hrudey
Ron Hextall
Kirk McLean
Tim Chevaldae
Chris Terrerri
Andy Moog
Dwayne Roloson
Nicklas Backstrom

On surface level, of that group : Vokoun feels like the closest to the list, while Potvin, Hebert and (of all people) Hrudey made it to second thoughts and look, superficially, like decent candidates.

ARE YOU SERIOUS
Jim Carey
Byron Dafoe

Colored text in the quote...for fun!

I've succumbed to putting Gump Worsley on my list...which isn't the best precedent to set. Six spots left...

 

[Weztex]

Damn I'm late to the party. That's a project I'd very like to participate in. I see there's still lists that haven't been submitted and I could get mine by Wednesday top.

 

[blogofmike]

Now I feel bad about excluding Varlamov.

Saros was a later cut because I'm not a fan of his playoff performances.

I included Shesterkin (I thought pretty high, but apparently not as high as others), because if he retires tomorrow, he isn't very far off Gardiner.

With the addition of Varlamov and Leif Holmqvist, I have just 8 spots left (they will not be going to Ylonen or holy piss, Valtonen...yuck) and I have to ref tonight. so if I have to call on my bubble cross-outs I will...I'm doing one last video sweep to see if anyone doesn't suck and then my list will come in and destroy your aggregation, in good faith...

Have you thought of Kirk McLean?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Personally, the one current netminder that puzzles me the most, and that I'd REALLY like to benefit from 24-25 before ranking, is Linus Ullmark. I can absolutely not touch him as things stand.

It just occurred to me that if you believe that Ullmark is a season away, then Jacob Markstrom should probably be on your list.

It took him a while, he was giving up some bad goals in early part of his career, but he's been a top 5-ish talent for the last several years and now accolades are coming in a bit to follow...

Have you thought of Kirk McLean?

Haha never more than I have today, I'll tell you that much...I have three spots left. It's getting close.

 

[nabby12]

With the addition of Varlamov and Leif Holmqvist, I have just 8 spots left (they will not be going to Ylonen or holy piss, Valtonen...yuck) and I have to ref tonight. so if I have to call on my bubble cross-outs I will...I'm doing one last video sweep to see if anyone doesn't suck and then my list will come in and destroy your aggregation, in good faith...

This is a preliminary top-80 list... There's a LOT more work to do after this. No one here is taking your precious list as gospel, so just send it in already.

The fact that you've been basically living and breathing on this thread for the past two months, and are now three days late in sending in your list is truly unbelievable.

 

[MXD]

It just occurred to me that if you believe that Ullmark is a season away, then Jacob Markstrom should probably be on your list.

It's more "I want to see what he does as the actual starter on a team like Ottawa" than "I want him to have one more season". Both in terms of quality of teams support and of games/minutes played.

Markstrom is someone I really should've put in my "thought about it but decided no". Though he was close-ish : super well perceived lately, BUT :
- Not particularily consistent on a year-to-year basis
- Switch turned on a bit too late

Actually, my barometer for Markstrom was Ryan Miller. His career is, basically, Miller, but upside down, and worse at everything, including playoffs. In a world where Miller is in my 2nd half, I can't justify ranking Markstrom, but I do reckon he's close and I suppose I could reevaluate if I end up ranking guys I don't really want to rank. Thanks for the hint.

 

[bobholly39]

It just occurred to me that if you believe that Ullmark is a season away, then Jacob Markstrom should probably be on your list.

It took him a while, he was giving up some bad goals in early part of his career, but he's been a top 5-ish talent for the last several years and now accolades are coming in a bit to follow...


Haha never more than I have today, I'll tell you that much...I have three spots left. It's getting close.

Do you still really not have Tim Thomas on it at all? Or was that just an exaggeration from a previous post?

I think he sometimes get overrated too - but to not find him a spot in a top 80 seems rather extreme imo.

 

[bobholly39]

Amongst active netminders and/or recent retirees, did I miss someone?

Jonathan Quick
MAF
Carey Price
Henrik Lundqvist
Ryan Miller
Andrei Vasilevskyi
Igor Shesterkin
Pekka Rinne
Connor Hellebuyck
Brayden Holtby
Sergei Bobrovsky
Tuukka Rask
Roberto Luongo
Juuse Saros
Semyon Varlamov (who has been moved up)


(Thought about, but not ranking as of now)
- Ilya Sorokin (which I won't rank)
- Corey Crawford
- Craig Anderson
- Cam Ward
- Jaroslav Halak
- Linus Ullmark
- Robin Lehner
- Jakob Markstrom (Playoffs somewhere between "not good" and "incomplete/inconclusive", too a long time to turn the switch on, but super well perceived since the late '10s)
- Ben Bishop (probably good enough for the list with a more substantive career, but 100 less games than Holtby, whose career isn't exactly long in the first place, and generally inferior to him in every aspect as well, requires a decent distance to Holtby; not in same stratosphere as Saros in terms of level)

Please be serious
- Antti Niemi
- Brian Elliott

I didn't rank Sorokin and didn't evn consider it. Great goalie but 3 seasons is just not enough...he'll get there in time, and maybe high, but not as of today. I did rank both Saros and Shesterkin, but was also very strict on them. Lack of longevity more than anything.

I ranked all the ones in your top list. And a couple in second one.

Just to get help "proofreading" my list further, and if it serves Mr. FarKarakas, so be it.

The "Contemporary with Jose Theodore but retired since a while" group. That feels really random, but it fits the period of netminders that I have more than a passing memory of watching.

IN :
Tim Thomas
Patrick Roy
Nikolai Khabibulin
Ed Belfour
Miikka Kiprusoff
John Vanbiesbrouck
Curtis Joseph
Dominik Hasek
Evgeni Nabokov
Grant Fuhr
Tom Barrasso
Martin Brodeur
Olaf Kolzig
Mike Richter
Arturs Irbe

NOT RANKED, as of now

Guy Hebert
Jose Theodore
Jon Casey
Felix Potvin
Marty Turco
JS Giguère
Ilya Bryzgalov
Tomas Vokoun
Sean Burke
Tommy Salo
Ron Tugnutt
Roman Turek
Chris Osgood
Jeff Hackett
Darren Puppa
Bill Ranford
Mike Vernon
Kelly Hrudey
Ron Hextall
Kirk McLean
Tim Chevaldae
Chris Terrerri
Andy Moog
Dwayne Roloson
Nicklas Backstrom

On surface level, of that group : Vokoun feels like the closest to the list, while Potvin, Hebert and (of all people) Hrudey made it to second thoughts and look, superficially, like decent candidates.

ARE YOU SERIOUS
Jim Carey
Byron Dafoe

From that second group I have a few of them ranked....Chris Osgood in particular jumps out though. Not even sure i have him highest in this group - but great career. Strong teams for sure, but lots of consistency in regular season and playoffs.

I can't imagine he wouldn't make my top 80 list.

 

[MXD]

I can't imagine he wouldn't make my top 80 list.

Not in because :
- Skill level meh as far as I'm concerned
- Looked pretty bad when not on a powerhouse
- He's basically a league-average goaltender (and not a league-average starting netminder) in an era of big NHL for 15 years. There's value in that, but if you somehow put him in the exact same context as Felix Potvin, I'm not even sure he makes it to the Kings-stage of his career.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Do you still really not have Tim Thomas on it at all? Or was that just an exaggeration from a previous post?

I think he sometimes get overrated too - but to not find him a spot in a top 80 seems rather extreme imo.

The bar for him to exceed is Cechmanek, right? Cechmanek isn't close, so Thomas is even further away than that.

It's not anything to do with Thomas, I just don't want goalies that don't have a good process. Gump Worsley, for instance, is a regrettable add by me...he'll be well into the 70s if he hangs on.

"Top 80 goalies" not "top 80 corpses throwing themselves at pucks" haha

 

[Michael Farkas]

This is a preliminary top-80 list... There's a LOT more work to do after this. No one here is taking your precious list as gospel, so just send it in already.

The fact that you've been basically living and breathing on this thread for the past two months, and are now three days late in sending in your list is truly unbelievable.

There is a lot more work to do...but why spend time working on the wrong goalies? The prelim list is super important as we don't get a chance to talk about goalies that aren't on them. So, having a good evaluation process is key to having a good project. Otherwise, it's garbage in and garbage out.

Re: Being "late", it was declared to be a soft deadline and I've been in communication with the admin the whole time. If it's a not problem for the person running the show, is it really a problem for you?

 

[jigglysquishy]

It's a "top" goalies list, not "best" or "most skilled".

I'm not arguing for Thomas top 40. I'm not arguing for him top 50. But 80 goalies is a lot of names. It's easy to fit in a middling goalie that had wild success. I think our lists are best when everything is taken into account, including both skill level and actual on-ice results.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Well, I think it's up to interpretation intentionally, right? I believe that top heavily leans into skill. And, as I've stated, I think goaltenders are very subject to team effects. So I want the most scalable goalies at the top.

There will be a ton of overlap with how I see it and with "success" or "actual on-ice results", but there will be some differences too. I'm just one list.

*"I'm Just Ken" plays softly in the background*

 

[seventieslord]

Just to get help "proofreading" my list further, and if it serves Mr. FarKarakas, so be it.

The "Contemporary with Jose Theodore but retired since a while" group. That feels really random, but it fits the period of netminders that I have more than a passing memory of watching.

IN :
Tim Thomas
Patrick Roy
Nikolai Khabibulin
Ed Belfour
Miikka Kiprusoff
John Vanbiesbrouck
Curtis Joseph
Dominik Hasek
Evgeni Nabokov
Grant Fuhr
Tom Barrasso
Martin Brodeur
Olaf Kolzig
Mike Richter
Arturs Irbe

NOT RANKED, as of now

Guy Hebert
Jose Theodore
Jon Casey
Felix Potvin
Marty Turco
JS Giguère
Ilya Bryzgalov
Tomas Vokoun
Sean Burke
Tommy Salo
Ron Tugnutt
Roman Turek
Chris Osgood
Jeff Hackett
Darren Puppa
Bill Ranford
Mike Vernon
Kelly Hrudey
Ron Hextall
Kirk McLean
Tim Chevaldae
Chris Terrerri
Andy Moog
Dwayne Roloson
Nicklas Backstrom

On surface level, of that group : Vokoun feels like the closest to the list, while Potvin, Hebert and (of all people) Hrudey made it to second thoughts and look, superficially, like decent candidates.

ARE YOU SERIOUS
Jim Carey
Byron Dafoe

Alright, now that I have my list semi-finalized after the harsh realization that I had to turn 109 names into 80, not 100...

From the 1st list:

Khabibulin and Irbe out, the rest in

From the 2nd list:

Moog is in, comfortably
Osgood is in (maybe too comfortably?)
Hextall is in
Burke, Giguere, Vokoun and Hrudey were very close