ICanMotteBelieveIt
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- Jan 11, 2013
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I'd rank Hasek #1 and Roy #2, but that's just a matter of taste. I would also rank Lundqvist higher than Luongo. Lundqvist got a few records, Vezina and so on.
HOH Top 40 Goaltenders of All Time
- Thread starter TheDevilMadeMe
- Start date
jcbio11
Registered User
quoipourquoi
Goaltender
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=58585857&postcount=1
So did most of the voters going into the discussion.
Rob Scuderi
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- Sep 3, 2009
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zenthusiast
cybersabre his prophet
- Oct 20, 2009
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Having only read the OP and jumping to the last page, would Hasek have finished #1 without that curious outlier?
TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
Going into the discussion, Hasek had a substantial lead over Roy - Roy was actually closer to #3 than he was to #1. After a long, detailed discussion, they were effectively tied. That's what seems to be lost in this endless discussion of a single vote - Hasek was pretty far above Roy going into the discussion phase and the discussions seemed to change enough minds to make it possible for a single vote to matter.
Tied with Roy with no "outlier." Read the results threat that is linked to the OP.
Tied with Roy with no "outlier." Read the results threat that is linked to the OP.
zenthusiast
cybersabre his prophet
- Oct 20, 2009
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Thanks, sorry I missed it. Also, quotation marks? I wasn't implying anything, and it's clearly apart from the majority. Just a word
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TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
Thanks, sorry I missed it. Also, quotation marks? I wasn't implying anything, and it's clearly apart from the majority. Just a word
No worries. I just find it funny that a 7th place vote for Hasek legitimately is a major outlier on hfboards, while it would be squarely in the mainstream (though on the low side of mainstream) in the general media.
Anyway, the links to all the source threads are at the bottom of the OP, except for the participant voting records, and they'll be added there as soon as they are all released.
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
The traditional hockey media places a very high emphasis on team achievements like wins and Cups. Compare where Brodeur ranks here to where most journalists would put him.
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
I know its true with Brodeur, but I don't recall many people in hockey, be it media or insiders, claiming Hasek was overrated or not a top 5 goalie.
quoipourquoi
Goaltender
I'm sure you're familiar with the THN lists. On their Top-60 since 1967 (2007), they put Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur up with Mark Messier, Steve Yzerman, and Ray Bourque. They put Dominik Hasek down with Bobby Clarke, Paul Coffey, and Larry Robinson. Though with a different panel, these three players were placed similar to each other in 1998 (#24, #25, #29) - quite a bit behind Sawchuk, Plante, and Hall.
A more recent list in 2011 had Hasek behind all of Sawchuk, Roy, Brodeur, and Plante - but ahead of Hall. So they're not "claiming Hasek was overrated," but then again, I don't believe they have had a reaction to HFBoards at all - which as far as I can tell is the only place that had formerly placed him #1. So if the media or insiders do not know that someone is claiming Hasek to be the best of all-time, I can't imagine anyone would have written a piece arguing against a position that from their perspective, no one seems to have. But in recent months, some have claimed that he wasn't as good as Niklas Lidstrom in terms of best European players, so there seems to be a definite difference in the perception of Hasek here and elsewhere. The same can be said for Scott Niedermayer and Mark Messier.
Dennis Bonvie
Registered User
Thanks for that. I really am not familiar with the TNH lists. And I get The Hockey News!
I did hear on the Tampa Bay broadcast this week (playing the Devils) color analyst Bobbie Taylor suggest Martin Broduer could go down in history as the greatest goalie ever. Play-by-play man Rick Peckham replied "no could about it".
Recently I watched some old time classics, including the Canada Cup finals.
Conclusion: Tretyak definitely deserves the top spot.
Conclusion: Tretyak definitely deserves the top spot.
Doctor No
Registered User
Tretiak deserves the top spot *of all time* based upon a handful of games?
Have you bothered to read the threads and the amount of work that went into this?
I guess all of that should be trumped by fewer than ten games.
Johnny Engine
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- Jul 29, 2009
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I will give him that the threads are long, full of chit chat and maybe not the best use of everyone's time.
But it is a little sad that he doesn't even ask why Tretiak's not #1, just decides to tell us he's got it figured out.
I am afraid I have to disagree with you.
Tretiak has played loads of great games against world's most talented teams and has been terrific and dominant in most of them.
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
Doctor No
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MXD
Partying Hard
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VMBM
Hansel?!
Bolded. I think that you could say that about many other great goalies on the list. And unlike some others, Tretiak always played for teams (the Soviet ntl team and CSKA) that were nearly always favoured to win their opponents; yet USSR was not the world champion in 1972, 1976 and 1977 and did not win the olympic gold in 1980. CSKA failed to win the Soviet league title in 1974 and 1976. Tretiak was also in goal when Czechoslovakia beat USSR 7-2 in the 1974 WC and 8-3 in the 1977 Izvestia tournament. Obviously, this is not all Tretiak's fault, but there are those occasions when he couldn't help his team to win...
I can understand that watching Tretiak's best games like the 1975 game vs. Montreal and the 1981 Canada Cup final (and there are many other great ones) might give the impression that he was 'the best of all-time'. But unfortunately, he did not always play like that; probably not even 'most of the time'.
e.g.
1979 Challenge Cup, game 2, the highlights (16 shots against, 4 goals against):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvotpb8LuzU
Buffalo Sabres vs CSKA, 1980, the goals:
1-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLQNfZJzuM#t=10m10s 2-0
2-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLQNfZJzuM&t=24m45s
2-1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLQNfZJzuM&t=87m52s
3-1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLQNfZJzuM&t=90m40s
4-1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLQNfZJzuM&t=99m58s
5-1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLQNfZJzuM&t=102m14s
6-1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzLQNfZJzuM&t=108m15s
Last edited:
buffalowing88
Registered User
This list is absolutely perfect. I'm so glad we have a final source that can make knowledgeable decisions about player rankings. Hasek is probably my favorite player of all time but Roy deserves number one. He was a gamer like no other player. I'm also glad that compilers like Brodeur aren't rewarded on their stats. Marty is a legend but he ALWAYS had a great defense and thrived in an era when scoring was down.
Just out of curiosity, with Luongo and Thomas on the list, how long until Miller cracks the top 40? He's got the international credentials and he has outplayed some other guys on this list a number of times. I imagine by the time he retires he will be top 30...
Just out of curiosity, with Luongo and Thomas on the list, how long until Miller cracks the top 40? He's got the international credentials and he has outplayed some other guys on this list a number of times. I imagine by the time he retires he will be top 30...
Johnny Engine
Moderator
- Jul 29, 2009
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I would say probably not if he plays out a few more years as a top-10 starter and then declines.
If he has a few more years like 2009-10, the sky's the limit.
