Post-Game Talk: Hockeytown no more 4-2 Jets

[JetsFan815]

Moving laine up to the first line will never happen...someone doesn't want him up there for some reason, ehlers and conners have been moved up there with no hesitation yet laine isn't in the consideration, rather oddly....either its Maurice or the big man with the "C", wheeler has been known to be a bit of a cry baby and wonder if he doesn't care for the attention being diverted from him onto someone else who has more talent them himself.... there is no doubt or rather very obvious someone who doesn't want him on the first line.

That is factually incorrect, he was moved to the top line this season and that line shat the bed... it was more of the same.

Edit:

Here's the answer for you and it's not a silly conspiracy that you are espousing. Look at the matchups that the coach uses for the top line and what he uses for Laine when he has the choice. Here's the Center Scheifele was matched up against the most and here's who Laine was matched up against the most in their last 10 homegames:

This should solve that mystery for you rather than your conspiracy theories.

The coach is matching up Scheifele against the other teams top line/star players every single game (other than the Hawks game where Lowry took that matchup) whereas Laine is going up against either the 3rd line or 2nd line depending on how deep the other team is.

That shows the level of trust the coach has in each player defensively. And to be fair, it's not like Laine has demolished the relatively easy competition that he has faced so that probably contributes to the reluctance.

Now I agree that Connor probably isn't much better than Laine in his own zone but let's not just make things up out of thin air to explain why he isn't on the top line.

 

[HannuJ]

I do not think that Croissant had a great game.
he got damn lucky on that breakaway. he was moving the wrong way.

 

[Whileee]

Do you seriously think Chevy is going to build a dynasty by signing Myers to big money and Brossoit to 2.5m?
Myers was scoring at the same pace as Trouba last year with less than half the defense.
Coming from someone that thinks Trouba was playing poorly so Chevy would trade him doesn't really surprise me.
The fact remains, Myers has 13 points this year and is taking up 5.5m of the caphit.
I suggested trading Ehlers for Lindholm from the ducks and would still do it in a heartbeat.

Chevy hedged heavily when asked about re-signing Myers. Gave me the impression that he has a sense that he won't be signing him as a UFA.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Being at last night game, it had a great energy in the building. Almost felt like a year 2 home game return of the Jets.

Probably all the drunk and disorderly Wings fans.

 

[KingBogo]

He's proving a point to young players by spiting his team? I disagree entirely that putting young players in the worst possible scenario is best for their development in the long run.

But is it really spiting the team? We are cruising along with the 5th best point% in the NHL who has a 100% chance of the playoffs even if we go fake 500 the rest of the way according to Sports Club. Why is putting players in a tougher spot bad for their development? It not like he was throwing them out against TB's top line and top pairing. He was matching them up against a very young and inexperienced Red Wing team.

 

[GNP]

Chevy hedged heavily when asked about resigning Myers. Gave me the impression that he has a sense that he won't be signing him as a UFA.

________________________________________________________

I would think this is going to be a tough signing for Chevy and or Myers. I would think Myers will want term --like about 6 years, and likely ask $ 6.5 to 7mil per year.

I don't think Chevy would feel comfortable at all with these kind of terms --and probably would like to sign Myers in the $ 5 to 5.5 mil range, so I would think the 2 parties are far apart. I heard that Chevy has been talking to Myer's agent about 2 months ago, and I never heard anything after that.

Usually when Chevy wants to sign someone, it get's done quickly, like was done with Buff, Ehlers and then just recently with Wheeler. If Chevy has reservations, like he did with Ladd, and other players, and things drag on--then likely that player won't be signed.

It may be that Myers is not a Jet next year, because of financial roadblocks ??

This would be disappointing in my mind, as Myer's is a great offensive defenseman.

 

[Ducky10]

But is it really spiting the team? We are cruising along with the 5th best point% in the NHL who has a 100% chance of the playoffs even if we go fake 500 the rest of the way according to Sports Club. Why is putting players in a tougher spot bad for their development? It not like he was throwing them out against TB's top line and top pairing. He was matching them up against a very young and inexperienced Red Wing team.

No, just in the sense I don't think that was the best way to deploy them necessarily . I don't think throwing a guy who hasn't played in as long as Niku has, and who is as inexperienced as Niku is with Morrow is much to base things on, especially with as poorly as the 4th line played . Those 5 did get pummeled all night, it wasn't working .

The NHL is a tough enough assignment for most young players without having to manage it without much security . I don't think it's great for a young players confidence. Maurice has sheltered lots of players before, not sure why he sees putting Niku in tougher spots as better for his development. Let him gain some experience first.

 

[PhilJets]

That is factually incorrect, he was moved to the top line this season and that line shat the bed... it was more of the same.

Edit:

Here's the answer for you and it's not a silly conspiracy that you are espousing. Look at the matchups that the coach uses for the top line and what he uses for Laine when he has the choice. Here's the Center Scheifele was matched up against the most and here's who Laine was matched up against the most in their last 10 homegames:

This should solve that mystery for you rather than your conspiracy theories.

The coach is matching up Scheifele against the other teams top line/star players every single game (other than the Hawks game where Lowry took that matchup) whereas Laine is going up against either the 3rd line or 2nd line depending on how deep the other team is.

That shows the level of trust the coach has in each player defensively. And to be fair, it's not like Laine has demolished the relatively easy competition that he has faced so that probably contributes to the reluctance.

Now I agree that Connor probably isn't much better than Laine in his own zone but let's not just make things up out of thin air to explain why he isn't on the top line.

Hello

Questions

1)
That moved to the top line howmany minutes was that? Including last year if you have the data?

2)
That match up minutes does that include the empty net situations? Minutes


Thanks

 

[Ducky10]

I do not think that Croissant had a great game.
he got damn lucky on that breakaway. he was moving the wrong way.

He got a bit lucky on a breakaway so he didn't have a good game? He looked pretty solid to me, made lots of great saves, was in position and controlled the puck.

 

[KingBogo]

No, just in the sense I don't think that was the best way to deploy them necessarily . I don't think throwing a guy who hasn't played in as long as Niku has, and who is as inexperienced as Niku is with Morrow is much to base things on, especially with as poorly as the 4th line played . Those 5 did get pummeled all night, it wasn't working .

The NHL is a tough enough assignment for most young players without having to manage it without much security . I don't think it's great for a young players confidence. Maurice has sheltered lots of players before, not sure why he sees putting Niku in tougher spots as better for his development. Let him gain some experience first.

I guess the other option is putting him with Kuli, but then there are more minutes against tougher competition. And if he didn't fair well would it have been unfair to him?

 

[Ducky10]

________________________________________________________

I would think this is going to be a tough signing for Chevy and or Myers. I would think Myers will want term --like about 6 years, and likely ask $ 6.5 to 7mil per year.

I don't think Chevy would feel comfortable at all with these kind of terms --and probably would like to sign Myers in the $ 5 to 5.5 mil range, so I would think the 2 parties are far apart. I heard that Chevy has been talking to Myer's agent about 2 months ago, and I never heard anything after that.

Usually when Chevy wants to sign someone, it get's done quickly, like was done with Buff, Ehlers and then just recently with Wheeler. If Chevy has reservations, like he did with Ladd, and other players, and things drag on--then likely that player won't be signed.

It may be that Myers is not a Jet next year, because of financial roadblocks ??

This would be disappointing in my mind, as Myer's is a great offensive defenseman.

If Myers wants 6.5-7 mil for 6 years, run screaming.

No way in hell do the Jets do that for a 3rd pairing guy simply no way in hell.

Unless he's cheap, the Jets already have options in house .

 

[Ducky10]

I guess the other option is putting him with Kuli, but then there are more minutes against tougher competition. And if he didn't fair well would it have been unfair to him?

No I don't think that would have been unfair. I think it would have allowed to manage the minutes better and balance who he played with more equally.

I guess my issue is I don't take much from his game yesterday based on the circumstances. If probably have felt differently if he had been with someone like Kuli, to at least give him a chance to hold water.

 

[KingBogo]

No I don't think that would have been unfair. I think it would have allowed to manage the minutes better and balance who he played with more equally.

I guess my issue is I don't take much from his game yesterday based on the circumstances. If probably have felt differently if he had been with someone like Kuli, to at least give him a chance to hold water.

When I go to natural stat trick and match up shift charts he looked pretty sheltered to me. No one is worried about Morrow playing with a raw rookie against the same competition. My point was he wasn't thrown to the wolves. With both Buff and Myers out and having to dress 5 LHD you can't fully shelter and the Wings can only offer limited competition so other than for a couple players Niku was not up against players that were overwhelming. And with that he was mostly up against the Wings 4th line.

 

[surixon]

I like many here don't really buy the pacing argument. I think its a too many minutes a game issue that is leading to fatigued play. Its no surprise Scheifele and Wheeler didn't have much in the tank after playing big minutes the night before.

Maurice's presser last night also sheds more light on this, he clearly doesn't trust a number of our kids out there and that is leading to him running his vets hard.

Its a hard situation for some of the kids who don't play many minutes. The last thing I want is for a number of our kids to start to play timid hockey trying not to make mistakes in fear of getting benched.

 

[Ducky10]

When I go to natural stat trick and match up shift charts he looked pretty sheltered to me. No one is worried about Morrow playing with a raw rookie against the same competition. My point was he wasn't thrown to the wolves. With both Buff and Myers out and having to dress 5 LHD you can't fully shelter and the Wings can only offer limited competition so other than for a couple players Niku was not up against players that were overwhelming. And with that he was mostly up against the Wings 4th line.

Well let's face it, neither of those guys were going to be helping the other . My sympathy for Morrow is lessened by the fact he has zero future with us and is nothing but a depth org player.

In reality I don't think Niku fared that poorly actually. Just limited opportunity to show his game. It didn't help that it happened to be on a night the team as a whole was pretty gassed and the 4th line had its collective head up it's ass.

 

[KingBogo]

Well let's face it, neither of those guys were going to be helping the other . My sympathy for Morrow is lessened by the fact he has zero future with us and is nothing but a depth org player.

In reality I don't think Niku fared that poorly actually. Just limited opportunity to show his game. It didn't help that it happened to be on a night the team as a whole was pretty gassed and the 4th line had its collective head up it's ass.

I don't think he fared that poorly either. And in all honesty all he will get is limited opportunity to show his game. The Jets aren't in developmental mode any more. If you are # 8 on the depth chart which Niku is, and there are 2 defensemen out above you, then it is very likely you will be matched in the bottom pair with #7 (Morrow). If another D man goes down above them he will be paired with #9 on the depth chart on the bottom pair and be even less sheltered. And in all these situations they will play most of their shifts with the Jets 4th line against the oppositions 4th line.

 

[Ducky10]

I don't think he fared that poorly either. And in all honesty all he will get is limited opportunity to show his game. The Jets aren't in developmental mode any more. If you are # 8 on the depth chart which Niku is, and there are 2 defensemen out above you, then it is very likely you will be matched in the bottom pair with #7 (Morrow). If another D man goes down above them he will be paired with #9 on the depth chart on the bottom pair and be even less sheltered. And in all these situations they will play most of their shifts with the Jets 4th line against the oppositions 4th line.

Oh, I'm under no illusion he's getting any bigger opportunity to show his game, nor do I think he should when the Jets are a healthy team.

 

[JetsFan815]

Hello

Questions

1)
That moved to the top line howmany minutes was that? Including last year if you have the data?

2)
That match up minutes does that include the empty net situations? Minutes


Thanks

1) Granted, he was only with Scheifele and Wheeler for like maybe 4 periods total but that still disproves the person who was claiming that "he will never or hasn't been on the top line"

2) No, all those matchups were 5 on 5.

 

[KingBogo]

Oh, I'm under no illusion he's getting any bigger opportunity to show his game, nor do I think he should when the Jets are a healthy team.

Agreed. It will be harder and harder for promising prospects to establish themselves. That is the nature of having a strong contending team. At the same time there remains the opportunity for good young players to push themselves into the discussion. IMO that is what Niku and others after him will need to do. Push themselves in and demonstrate they are better than other options.

 

[GNP]

If Myers wants $6.5 to 7mil for 6 years, run screeming.

No way in hell do the Jets do that for a 3rd pairing guy simply no way in hell.

Unless he's cheap, the Jets already have options in house .

________________________________________________________

I had to laugh when I read your post, and I can tell what you think Myers is worth, and what you'd pay him if you were GM.

I will say this though-- Andrew Ladd ( who's finished) got something like $ 6.5 mil per season over "6 years." Also John Taveres another UFA signed with the Leafs for something like $ 12 mil per season over 6 years, or something like that. Erik Karlson, now with the Sharks wants $ 12 mil ?? -- I wouldn't pay him that. That's cause to run and scream.

It's my guess Myer's will shop the market, like these other guys -- find a team that needs an experienced defenseman -- and will sign in the $ 6 to $ 6.5 mil bracket. There is "always" someone willing to "overpay" if they need a hole filled, but not the Jets.

As for the Jets -- I can't see Chevy going much over $5-to 5.5 mil-- which is something I think is fair. I think he'll get way more on the "open market." I guess we'll see what happens down the road.

 

[AlphaLackey]

Is the fact he is a back up figured into that? .909 as an expected save % feels to high for that group?

I would imagine that it's probably a touch lower for backup. When I first look at it back when the league save% was .907, each team's "starting goalie" (just the one that had the most minutes for that team, I didn't apply anything subjective to it) was .910, presumably meaning that each backup was .904. I don't know what the average a backup (and especially at Brossoit's price) would be expected to provide. If we call it .903 (which is bordering on AHL callup territory) that's an extra 2.3 goals against. Call it a full standings point if you want.

 

[AlphaLackey]

I don't buy this theory that our top guys are conserving themselves.
If that was the plan they would not be near the top of minutes played / game for forwards in the league.
Wheeler and Scheifele have looked exhausted at many points during the season already and it's not even the ASB yet.

As for Brossoit I certainly don't want to get into it math wise...
But all you have to do is look at what our backup (starter) did last year in the same amount of time.

Mason 2 - 8 - 0
Brossoit 9 - 1 - 1

Without Brossoit there's a decent chance we aren't even in a playoff spot at this point.

Hellebuyck 19 - 13 - 1
Not exactly first place results

Goalie WL record is a horrible metric though. Steve Mason was still .906 during that stretch; But the team was horrible overall - the Jets scored 18 goals during those 11 games. Meanwhile, they've scored 41 during Brossoit's 11 games.

So yes, if we erase 15 points off our standings, of course we're (barely) out of the playoffs. But there's no way that's all on goaltending during that stretch or even the majority of it.

 

[HannuJ]

He got a bit lucky on a breakaway so he didn't have a good game? He looked pretty solid to me, made lots of great saves, was in position and controlled the puck.

nah. that was 1 example. detroit put a few shots off of Jets' d legs and Croissant wasn't in position.
not complaining per se, but i think the score did flatter him.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Goalie WL record is a horrible metric though. Steve Mason was still .906 during that stretch; But the team was horrible overall - the Jets scored 18 goals during those 11 games. Meanwhile, they've scored 41 during Brossoit's 11 games.

So yes, if we erase 15 points off our standings, of course we're (barely) out of the playoffs. But there's no way that's all on goaltending during that stretch or even the majority of it.

There was certainly a point last year where it felt like starting anyone but Hellebuyck was a guaranteed loss. That's all I'm saying. The points we've earned while Bros-walish is in net is the difference between being a decent team trying to make the playoffs and a team fighting for top spot in our division and conference.

Some of those early Mason games he looked like swiss cheese.
Letting in a lot of early goals especially a couple of stinkers is a quick way to lose confidence and momentum. I have to think that effected our output a little bit in those games.

 

[DowntownBooster]

It's kind of funny the Jets have so much trouble with Minnesota because of the trap and yet Detroit was able to walk in there tonight and beat the Wild 5-2. Not only that but it was the Red Wings second game in two nights and Minnesota had a day off in between their game with the Jets on Thursday.