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Hockey has divided Canada - Canadians Cheering Against Team Canada...

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Why all of a sudden are fans of the Q complaining?

1996- 1 forward and 1 D plus goalies
1997- 2 forwards and 1 D "" ""
1999- 1 forward and 1 goalie
2000- 4 forwards and 1 d and 1 goalie
2001- 1 forward
2002- 2 goalies
2003- 1 forward 1 D and 1 goalie
2004- 3 forwards

Its not like the players from the Q ever take up too much room on Team Canada. Is the crying this much every year? Is it because they arent supplying the goalies?
 
letterH said:
Why all of a sudden are fans of the Q complaining?

1996- 1 forward and 1 D plus goalies
1997- 2 forwards and 1 D "" ""
1999- 1 forward and 1 goalie
2000- 4 forwards and 1 d and 1 goalie
2001- 1 forward
2002- 2 goalies
2003- 1 forward 1 D and 1 goalie
2004- 3 forwards

Its not like the players from the Q ever take up too much room on Team Canada. Is the crying this much every year? Is it because they arent supplying the goalies?
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Maybe thats why we aren't winning much over that stretch.
 
By the way, do you think Bernier, Picard et al will be rooting AGAINST Canada because they weren't picked? You know that they won't. And they are the ones with the most legitimate gripes.

Every year we go through this same scenario on this board where Hockey Canada and the coaches are all described as idiots, that the team will surely be a poor one and some posters will hope that the team loses --- and all because they think that one or two deserving players (usually from their 'home' league) were not selected to the training camp (let alone actually being on the final roster!).
 
steblick said:
By the way, do you think Bernier, Picard et al will be rooting AGAINST Canada because they weren't picked? You know that they won't. And they are the ones with the most legitimate gripes.

Every year we go through this same scenario on this board where Hockey Canada and the coaches are all described as idiots, that the team will surely be a poor one and some posters will hope that the team loses --- and all because they think that one or two deserving players (usually from their 'home' league) were not selected to the training camp (let alone actually being on the final roster!).
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Steblick.....many of the wrong players were selected weither you agree or not. The majority of us who are argueing will still cheer Canada on, hell its our home country. We just feel that the wrong players were selected and want to voice our opinion. Untill they get a good mix of everything I feel Canada will continue to lose. This year I don't feel they have enough speed. Size and grit is overated up front at the WJC.
 
I had to come back one more time just to see how long the thread had gotten and whether or not the whiners had come up with any legitimate arguments for selecting a different team. It now turns out that the real argument is that Team Canada should be "representative", regardless of talent, and regardless of any realisitic assessment of players.

Too funny. :lol

I think that the team should be truly representative - half should be girls, and representation should be based on population of where they are from - 7 should be from Toronto; 4 from Montreal; 3 from Vancouver; 1 each from Calgary and Edmonton; and the rest should be from the rest of Canada proportionately. Unfortunately, Dixon gets the returning player nod for the Maritimes so Crosby has to stay home, but the team will suck anyway so a real hockey player like Crosby will be glad to have Christmas at home and read about it.

Seriously, two thoughts. One, it is a damn good thing Hockey Canada could care less about what the so-called fans think. Two, now I understand where the socialists in Canada get their votes. Pathetic.
 
gb701 said:
I had to come back one more time just to see how long the thread had gotten and whether or not the whiners had come up with any legitimate arguments for selecting a different team. It now turns out that the real argument is that Team Canada should be "representative", regardless of talent, and regardless of any realisitic assessment of players.

Too funny. :lol

I think that the team should be truly representative - half should be girls, and representation should be based on population of where they are from - 7 should be from Toronto; 4 from Montreal; 3 from Vancouver; 1 each from Calgary and Edmonton; and the rest should be from the rest of Canada proportionately. Unfortunately, Dixon gets the returning player nod for the Maritimes so Crosby has to stay home, but the team will suck anyway so a real hockey player like Crosby will be glad to have Christmas at home and read about it.

Seriously, two thoughts. One, it is a damn good thing Hockey Canada could care less about what the so-called fans think. Two, now I understand where the socialists in Canada get their votes. Pathetic.
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Yea, because they have been so successfull with the under 20 team in the past few years.

Want a legit reason why the roster should change? 1.) McGrath, Bourret, Brule, Picard, Hunter and Bernier are better then many of the names listed there. That there is enough reason for us to complain. Sutter said he would pick the best players and it is apparent he went against his word.
 
I should add something about the NCAA, there wasn't much room for Zajac this year considering he only plays Center but in the future Canada has to do a better job looking at all their talent gone south of the border to play. How much recognition is Bertram and Cogliano going to get next year. Cogliano and Bertram stepped up big for Canada at the under 18 and I am starting to wonder if Canada brass will give them a fair shot at Team Canada next year. Brock Bradford is another.
 
JasonMacIsaac said:
many of the wrong players were selected weither you agree or not.
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Since when does your opinion make it a fact?


JasonMacIsaac said:
Want a legit reason why the roster should change? 1.) McGrath, Bourret, Brule, Picard, Hunter and Bernier are better then many of the names listed there. That there is enough reason for us to complain. Sutter said he would pick the best players and it is apparent he went against his word.
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He did not go against his word.

1. Sutter doesn't choose the evaluation camp by himself. The majority of the decisions on who goes to camp are made by Blair Mackasey and other scouts because Sutter has a full time job in Red Deer that prevents him from travelling the country day in, day out. Those players are invited based on how well the scouts have judged them to play so far this season.

2. Sutter's word is dependant on who he selects from the selection camp, and even then, nobody can say he went against his word because the team he selects will be the best players he has to choose from in his coaching opinion.

Not enough people understand just how the selection process is done, yet those same people whine the most.
 
Hart_House_Ca said:
I can't say I will be cheering for fully for team Canada. But I will have a huge smile on my face if Team Canada does lose.

Hockey will divide Canada if it already hasn't.
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This is an act of treason...
 
JasonMacIsaac said:
Yea, because they have been so successfull with the under 20 team in the past few years.

Want a legit reason why the roster should change? 1.) McGrath, Bourret, Brule, Picard, Hunter and Bernier are better then many of the names listed there. That there is enough reason for us to complain. Sutter said he would pick the best players and it is apparent he went against his word.
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Let's see:

- missed medals once in the last 12 years;
- 5 Golds in that span;
- 4 Silvers - including the past 3 years;
- 2 Bronze;
- How many O/T's for those silvers?

Yah - the programme sucks. Everyone should be fired, and we should let the team be run out of Halifax and the Q.

I might even give you two of the people on your list as being "better" than a couple of the names Sutter picked, but your list raises two points - first, by naming a list that long you demonstrate that you really don't know much of what you are talking about since more than half of the players you name wouldn't even expect to be there (particularly with twelve returning players); second, none of these players stand out enough to make a particle bit of difference to the TEAM overall.

Finally, Sutter never promised to pick the best "players", to my knowledge. He promised to pick the best TEAM - a concept that is clearly eluding a lot of whiners.
 
Van said:
Since when does your opinion make it a fact?




He did not go against his word.

1. Sutter doesn't choose the evaluation camp by himself. The majority of the decisions on who goes to camp are made by Blair Mackasey and other scouts because Sutter has a full time job in Red Deer that prevents him from travelling the country day in, day out. Those players are invited based on how well the scouts have judged them to play so far this season.

2. Sutter's word is dependant on who he selects from the selection camp, and even then, nobody can say he went against his word because the team he selects will be the best players he has to choose from in his coaching opinion.

Not enough people understand just how the selection process is done, yet those same people whine the most.
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It is fact to those who want it to be fact and false to those who don't. Why does that matter. I feel it is the wrong decision and I will back that up 100%.


When I say Sutter I mean him and his people. Obviously he gets the final say with the evaluation camp and if it came between Stone and Picard he will go with the one he is more familiar with, and probably the wrong one.

Van you are the last one anyone would believe in a debate over players from different CHL leagues. You are known as WHL supporter through and through and have gotten in trouble over it in the past.
 
JasonMacIsaac said:
No they are not. The best numbers from goaltenders are comming from the WHL. That doesn't mean they are the best. I would take Houle over any goaltender in the CHL at the moment. Like LaLaLaprise said though, Houle is small and everyone frowns upon small goaltenders. I actually feel like an ass for not including Houle on my Team Canada, the change will be made.

"Young players make mistakes" What are you, the head of a NHL team or something. Age makes a difference in the NHL but not near as much in an event like this. All junior players make mistakes. Look at Colburn or Fleury. I am willing to bet Colburn and Belle will make mistakes this year also. Bourret and Brule are better then some of the players on the team now, isn't that what Sutter had set out to do, get the best 30 players. Pile of BS.
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Pile on the BS .. What are talking about .. I am giving my reason why I believe the team is what it is .. I didn't pick it .. You have the problem with it that you feel that you know more than Team Canada Selection committee ...

I sometimes get disappointed when I player I wanted to watch over Christmas does not make the tourney but I have never spent 1 minute thinking or complaining which CHL league the player came from ... and everybody know the whole defense was going to be basically the WHL and many of the forwards are returning and so 8 spots are virtually guaranteed ..So really we are talking about a few forward positions ..and the goalies

This year seems like Q fans have some inferiority complex .. or something really strange ,, and no stranger then the thread starter that will vote against his own country because more Q & O players are not involved ..

This would have been my guess before the names where released (and to be honest despite being a returnee I would have cut Dixon and had Dylan Hunter)

Patrice Bergeron - Sidney Crosby - Jeff Carter
Nigel Dawes - Mike Richards - Antony Stewart
Ryan Getzlaf - Ryan Stone - Eric Fehr
Dylan Hunter (X-Dixon) - David Bolland. - Jeremy Colliton
Gilbert Brule

Dion Phaneuf - Shea Weber
Braydon Coburn - Brent Seabrook
Cam Barker - Mike Green
Shawn Belle

David Shantz
Devan Dubnyk
 
gb701 said:
Let's see:

- missed medals once in the last 12 years;
- 5 Golds in that span;
- 4 Silvers - including the past 3 years;
- 2 Bronze;
- How many O/T's for those silvers?

Yah - the programme sucks. Everyone should be fired, and we should let the team be run out of Halifax and the Q.

I might even give you two of the people on your list as being "better" than a couple of the names Sutter picked, but your list raises two points - first, by naming a list that long you demonstrate that you really don't know much of what you are talking about since more than half of the players you name wouldn't even expect to be there (particularly with twelve returning players); second, none of these players stand out enough to make a particle bit of difference to the TEAM overall.

Finally, Sutter never promised to pick the best "players", to my knowledge. He promised to pick the best TEAM - a concept that is clearly eluding a lot of whiners.
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First smarty, I didn't say the program sucks. Second, we having won a gold in the past 6 or 7 years and you know as well as myself that 2nd and 3rd place finishes mean little in Canada's eyes. It isn't an accomplishment.

Name me which players are not better then Dixon, MacArthur, Boyd or Colliton....you could also put Stone in there since Fehr inflates his numbers.
 
The Messenger said:
Pile on the BS .. What are talking about .. I am giving my reason why I believe the team is what it is .. I didn't pick it .. You have the problem with it that you feel that you know more than Team Canada Selection committee ...

I sometimes get disappointed when I player I wanted to watch over Christmas does not make the tourney but I have never spent 1 minute thinking or complaining which CHL league the player came from ... and everybody know the whole defense was going to be basically the WHL and many of the forwards are returning and so 8 spots are virtually guaranteed ..So really we are talking about a few forward positions ..and the goalies

This year seems like Q fans have some inferiority complex .. or something really strange ,, and no stranger then the thread starter that will vote against his own country because more Q & O players are not involved ..

This would have been my guess before the names where released (and to be honest despite being a returnee I would have cut Dixon and had Dylan Hunter)

Patrice Bergeron - Sidney Crosby - Jeff Carter
Nigel Dawes - Mike Richards - Antony Stewart
Ryan Getzlaf - Ryan Stone - Eric Fehr
Dylan Hunter (X-Dixon) - David Bolland. - Jeremy Colliton
Gilbert Brule

Dion Phaneuf - Shea Weber
Braydon Coburn - Brent Seabrook
Cam Barker - Mike Green
Shawn Belle

David Shantz
Devan Dubnyk
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What part of the QMJHL do you have a grudge against. Crosby and Bergeron the only two from the Q! Why would a player like Brule make it over Bourret? What assets of Brules game make him a better pick then Bourret?
 
JasonMacIsaac said:
It is fact to those who want it to be fact and false to those who don't. Why does that matter. I feel it is the wrong decision and I will back that up 100%.
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Key words here: "I feel."

That means it is your opinion, not a fact. A fact is something that cannot be argued by an opinion.



JasonMacIsaac said:
Van you are the last one anyone would believe in a debate over players from different CHL leagues. You are known as WHL supporter through and through and have gotten in trouble over it in the past.
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I've gotten in trouble? Really? Show me. Either that, or flick your arrogance switch to the 'off' position.

I support Canadian hockey. If you look at the number of CHL championships over the last 3 decades or so, and the number of QMJHL players who have represented Canada at the U20 tournament for the last 8-9 years, you will see that the WHL and OHL are far above the QMJHL in terms of quality.

Hell, look at the ADT Canada-Russia series this season...

Russia 3-3 QMJHL (RUS Shootout win)
Russia 3-3 QMJHL (RUS Shootout win)

Russia 1-3 OHL
Russia 2-5 OHL

Russia 0-6 WHL
Russia 2-5 WHL

In total goals for, the QMJHL tied Russia 6-6, the OHL outscored Russia 8-3 and the WHL outscored Russia 11-2.

Given the importance of these games in terms of who gets invited to camp and who doesn't (because the scouts have a chance to see them play together), I would say the WHL players earned their spots at this year's camp.
 
Van said:
Key words here: "I feel."

That means it is your opinion, not a fact. A fact is something that cannot be argued by an opinion.





I've gotten in trouble? Really? Show me. Either that, or flick your arrogance switch to the 'off' position.

I support Canadian hockey. If you look at the number of CHL championships over the last 3 decades or so, and the number of QMJHL players who have represented Canada at the U20 tournament for the last 8-9 years, you will see that the WHL and OHL are far above the QMJHL in terms of quality.

Hell, look at the ADT Canada-Russia series this season...

Russia 3-3 QMJHL (RUS Shootout win)
Russia 3-3 QMJHL (RUS Shootout win)

Russia 1-3 OHL
Russia 2-5 OHL

Russia 0-6 WHL
Russia 2-5 WHL

In total goals for, the QMJHL tied Russia 6-6, the OHL outscored Russia 8-3 and the WHL outscored Russia 11-2.

Given the importance of these games in terms of who gets invited to camp and who doesn't (because the scouts have a chance to see them play together), I would say the WHL players earned their spots at this year's camp.
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I knew a hockey fan like yourself would use this data:

1.) Russia's top two players Radulov and the goaltender played vs the QMJHL but didn't play vs OHL or WHL.

2.) Team QMJHL was missing maybe their top two forwards, Sidney Crosby and Alexander Picard.

3.) The QMJHL Team that was not picked well and did not represent our true talent at all. Houle should have been one of the goaltenders.

I would think that one of these 3 points I layed out would cause QMJHL not fair as well as the other leagues.
 
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Van said:
I've called many a penalty I could have let go in hindsight during hockey games. It doesn't make me biased.
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You have been known many times to be biast towards the WHL in general and your home team thereafter.
 
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JasonMacIsaac said:
You have been known many times to be biast towards the WHL in general and your home team thereafter.
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Home team? I don't have a home team in the CHL. Maybe based on where I live, but not based on any team I cheer for.

If you want to continue, send me a PM.
 
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I'm torn.

Who do I trust more? The hockey minds of Mackasey and Sutter or the hockey minds of JasonMcIsaac and Hart House Ca?

I'm terrible with picking sides. Early teenaged posters can sometimes be so darn influential on topics like these..
 
Don_Cherry said:
I'm torn.

Who do I trust more? The hockey minds of Mackasey and Sutter or the hockey minds of JasonMcIsaac and Hart House Ca?

I'm terrible with picking sides. Early teenaged posters can sometimes be so darn influential on topics like these..
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OH, I guess that 6 years you have on me allows you to think more clear on touchy topics like this.....give me a break. I know my hockey and the debate is more on the scouting that Hockey Canada done. I am not sure here but I will go out on a limb saying the scouts payed much more attention on the WHL then the CHL and NCAA ranks. I will still cheer on Canada but IMHO they picked the wrong players for the team. A checking line was not needed when you have Getzlaf and Carter (two amazing defensly skilled forwards) going out vs the opponents top line every game. Carter and Richards were the 1st PK unit last year also. It isn't as if they can't log the extra minutes.
 
JasonMacIsaac said:
OH, I guess that 6 years you have on me allows you to think more clear on touchy topics like this.....give me a break.
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Where did I compare my hockey knowledge to yours? I used very plain English comparing your hockey mind to the Hockey Canada braintrust. And since I agree with them way more than I agree with you, I can proudly say my line of thinking is clearly closer to professional hockey operations people than yours is.
 
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