Hockey has divided Canada - Canadians Cheering Against Team Canada...

[BCCHL inactive]

I can't believe how many people think that Brent Sutter makes all the decisions on who to invite to camp.

"Brent Sutter invited him, Brent Sutter invited that Western player, etc..."

UGH! Hockey Canada pays people to make those decisions. I'm not saying Sutter doesn't have input, but he doesn't scout the players for months on end deciding who deserves to be invited and who doesn't.

 

[espo*]

His handle is Bob McKenzie. clever huh?

just kidding. he doesn't post often, but he does so under his real name when he does

lol....that's freaky to learn the guy does actually take some time out to post on this site.I'd love to read some of his past stuff.I'll keep my eye out now for that.Thanks for the info.

 

[espo*]

I may be very disappointed with the lack of Steve Bernier and Alex Picard (F), but under absolutely no circumstances would I ever cheer against a Canadian team.

Don't get me wrong, I still think this is a team which is going to win the tournament. The D is, in my opinion, overall, miles ahead of anyone else, that makes up with compensation for the goaltending question. The forward group is the best in teh event, it just frustrated me to know that it could have been better.

Goaltending is what concerns me too...if you had to put money on it right now who would you take as the guy who will end up carrying the mail?.Do you have reasonable confidence in any of the keepers out there in camp to be able to do the job? We need the goaltending,i sure hope one of those guys can emerge.

 

[ZombieMatt]

Ah it's funny to see MacIsaac whine about bias and then display his obvious eastern bias and complete lack of firsthand knowledge of the WHL players in question. How rich.

I don't care where players are picked from as long as they are the best.

I'm a westerner going to university in the Maritimes (and I do not living in the Maritimes) so I'm hardly bias towards the lack of Eastern players. My concern is that this is not the best team that could have been taken.

I just don't think you could find a single NHL team who would trade MacArthur, Fraser, Boyd, or Meyer for either Bernier or Picard.

I agree role players are necessary. But Picard is better, in my opinion, at every aspect of the game than the guys who did make camp. And, Bernier is simply one of the best talents in the CHL.

Oh well, the team is named, I hope that they are able to come together quickly and that a #1 goalie steps up.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I just don't think you could find a single NHL team who would trade MacArthur, Fraser, Boyd, or Meyer for either Bernier or Picard.

I don't see how that is relevent. How good these players will be in 3-4 years in the professional ranks is what would matter to the NHL teams. How good these players are RIGHT NOW against junior aged competition is what matters to Team Canada. The two clearly are not the same thing.

 

[ZombieMatt]

I don't see how that is relevent. How good these players will be in 3-4 years in the professional ranks is what would matter to the NHL teams. How good these players are RIGHT NOW against junior aged competition is what matters to Team Canada. The two clearly are not the same thing.

Okay then, to be more succinct.

Picard is a more effective grinder than any of those players.

Steve Bernier is a better all around player than any of those previously mentioned.

I don't think Meyer can play any role effectively other than an offensive player, for instance. Bernier is a significantly more talented offensive player and I think would also be better if used in a depth line role.

My point, I think Hockey Canada has made two pick mistakes by omitting those two players.

 

[Mess]

Okay then, to be more succinct.

Picard is a more effective grinder than any of those players.

Steve Bernier is a better all around player than any of those previously mentioned.

I don't think Meyer can play any role effectively other than an offensive player, for instance. Bernier is a significantly more talented offensive player and I think would also be better if used in a depth line role.

My point, I think Hockey Canada has made two pick mistakes by omitting those two players.

Fair enough but in who's opinion did they make mistakes?? ....which really is the purpose of the thread ...

Who logically would be more qualified to make that decision the WJC selection committee or posters on a message board ??? ....and that's not meant to be disrespectful to you or anyone else ..

Sometimes there is no wrong or write answer ... You might pick Bernier on the team instead of Fehr or Perry and if the team wins you could not be proved wrong, but otherwise it really doesn't prove anything because even in a loss, no one could prove what Bernier's contribution to the team could have been and if that would have changed the outcome had he been there.

The only other flaw I see is that you are comparing the Q players against players invited to the camp not the final team .. If the Meyer's , Boyd's, Fraser's are all cut, all you are saying is that you would rather prefer to see Bernier cut instead ...

Concluding if Team Canada thought he would have a chance at making the team or they wanted him on the team he would have been invited to the camp .. With a bigger camp roster he would likely have been there, so basically consider him and Picard and Brule & Shantz early cuts .. in this case before the camp even started .. but it is really no different..

A player like Boyd is a long-shot and perhaps expects to be cut .. that may not be the case with a player like Bernier and Brule etc .. and instead of the selection committee having to answer to why Bernier was cut after a strong camp, they avoided the problem and cut him now ... and went with the player Fehr or Perry or whomever they have in mind for the final roster, without the need to find reason to explain their actions. People expect Fehr to make the team over Boyd & Fraser etc. so there is no controversy and perhaps Sutter's goal was to eliminate that problem by the players invited in the first place.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I'm sure they haven't however we haven't been making negative comments towards these players. In fact I believe Picard and maybe even Bernier should have been given invitations to the camp however I don't think either would have made it. How many times has MacIassac seen Stone or MacArthur or Boyd??? Still he seems to think with all the hockey knowledge he possesses that these players are inferior to McGrath, Bourret, Picard, Bernier, etc.

I actually seen them all atleast 4 times.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

the post was fine until the last sentence.

I don't think many here hate Quebec. but we didn't pick the team. The implication seems to be that Brent Sutter hates Quebec, and I think that's a stretch to say the least (although I know someone several pages back seemed to imply this was all because of Brent Sutter's 'jealousy' towards Denis Savard...one of the stranger things I've read here)

It was a joke. Some people on here...sheeesh.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Ah it's funny to see MacIsaac whine about bias and then display his obvious eastern bias and complete lack of firsthand knowledge of the WHL players in question. How rich.

I have yet to show a bias for any league and have seen every player on the list play. I added Brule to the list of better players that should be on the team along with McGrath and Munce....those are three not from the Q. You must just be to stupid to read through the thread. In the games I seen all Stone had to do is give the puck to Fehr anywhere in the offensive zone and a goal came from it. I have firsthand knowledge along with alot of other sources.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I can't believe how many people think that Brent Sutter makes all the decisions on who to invite to camp.

"Brent Sutter invited him, Brent Sutter invited that Western player, etc..."

UGH! Hockey Canada pays people to make those decisions. I'm not saying Sutter doesn't have input, but he doesn't scout the players for months on end deciding who deserves to be invited and who doesn't.

When we say Sutter we mean Sutter and his scouting team.

 

[reffree]

How about looking at the roll they would be playing? Who is a better fit as a defensive player or multi-purpose player? The one way type players you suggest from the Q or the two way players who have leadership roles with their teams in the WHL? What a player brings to the table is more important than where they are from and how many points they can score. The junior ranks are littered with one way players that end up playing senior men's hockey because they don't have the commitment to two way hockey. The players selected are excellent two way players and superior for the roles they would be expected to play.

Exactly why we have loose the last 7 years !
why we canadians think that a good team have to include grinders?
We play a tournament against the best of best, why can't we send our best to ?
And that's not just a problem for the recent years, during the wining streak it was a problem to ... many of the gold medal we win was by a one line team and a goalie who steals the game (particulary against russia). Remeber the Samsonov Morozov Nabokov year against the Langkow Dominicheli IGinla Theodore ? we win this game 2-1, but we weren't in the same league, only our first line could have stick with them...and theo just steal the game. That's pretty fun to see grinders hit with all their heart every shift ... but now international hockey as change... we won't intimidate the russian or any of our real rival ... Intimidating the Swiss is fun to watch but we need talent to beat the best team, just my opinion.
Don't get me wrong, I still think we will win this year, it will be a shame if we didn't, but at the same, it won't be because we dress the best potential team that we'll win.

And for the one who ask if we preffer to loose with the Q or win with this team, I have to say, two years ago Pouliot and Bernier were the best scorer for the wining U18 team canada ... and I don't think there presence with the team this year will be enough or us to loose. agree ?

 

[WillardJFredricks]

Unbelievable. I don't agree with a lot of the players named to camp, but I for one would NEVER cheer against my country. Everyone who has their panties in a knot over the number of WHL selections needs to post their choices. Even WHL haters will have a lot of trouble getting equal representation from every league in the CHL.

I'm certainly not going to start being like the majority of Americans and blindly cheer for my country. Even when it comes to hockey, if something I don't like happens with a Canadian team, I will not just go along with it and be happy. I love Canada, but I don't think there is any obligation to cheer for them unless you like the players on the team.

 

[espo*]

I think bob nicholson said it best in the papers today.his quote was along the lines of "i'd be worried if there was'nt this *****ing every year about who was selected because that would mean our depth is slipping" That's true.I think the team will be fine....they are damn good players.We need to get behind them starting right now..they represent all of us and they do a good job of it.

 

[MikeC44]

Nope, it's just the same old. Q fans whine about this EVERY year.

I would like to remind you that this thread was started by a Torontonian.


This Haligonian living in Moncton has no problem with the camp roster.

 

[markov`]

JasonMacIsaac, thank you. You just explained exactly the way I feel.

 

[markov`]

I'm certainly not going to start being like the majority of Americans and blindly cheer for my country. Even when it comes to hockey, if something I don't like happens with a Canadian team, I will not just go along with it and be happy. I love Canada, but I don't think there is any obligation to cheer for them unless you like the players on the team.

That's another point of view, and not a stupid one.

 

[markov`]

Exactly why we have loose the last 7 years !
why we canadians think that a good team have to include grinders?
We play a tournament against the best of best, why can't we send our best to ?
And that's not just a problem for the recent years, during the wining streak it was a problem to ... many of the gold medal we win was by a one line team and a goalie who steals the game (particulary against russia). Remeber the Samsonov Morozov Nabokov year against the Langkow Dominicheli IGinla Theodore ? we win this game 2-1, but we weren't in the same league, only our first line could have stick with them...and theo just steal the game. That's pretty fun to see grinders hit with all their heart every shift ... but now international hockey as change... we won't intimidate the russian or any of our real rival ... Intimidating the Swiss is fun to watch but we need talent to beat the best team, just my opinion.
Don't get me wrong, I still think we will win this year, it will be a shame if we didn't, but at the same, it won't be because we dress the best potential team that we'll win.

And for the one who ask if we preffer to loose with the Q or win with this team, I have to say, two years ago Pouliot and Bernier were the best scorer for the wining U18 team canada ... and I don't think there presence with the team this year will be enough or us to loose. agree ?

 

[ZombieMatt]

Fair enough but in who's opinion did they make mistakes?? ....which really is the purpose of the thread ...

Who logically would be more qualified to make that decision the WJC selection committee or posters on a message board ??? ....and that's not meant to be disrespectful to you or anyone else ..

Sometimes there is no wrong or write answer ... You might pick Bernier on the team instead of Fehr or Perry and if the team wins you could not be proved wrong, but otherwise it really doesn't prove anything because even in a loss, no one could prove what Bernier's contribution to the team could have been and if that would have changed the outcome had he been there.

The only other flaw I see is that you are comparing the Q players against players invited to the camp not the final team .. If the Meyer's , Boyd's, Fraser's are all cut, all you are saying is that you would rather prefer to see Bernier cut instead ...

Concluding if Team Canada thought he would have a chance at making the team or they wanted him on the team he would have been invited to the camp .. With a bigger camp roster he would likely have been there, so basically consider him and Picard and Brule & Shantz early cuts .. in this case before the camp even started .. but it is really no different..

A player like Boyd is a long-shot and perhaps expects to be cut .. that may not be the case with a player like Bernier and Brule etc .. and instead of the selection committee having to answer to why Bernier was cut after a strong camp, they avoided the problem and cut him now ... and went with the player Fehr or Perry or whomever they have in mind for the final roster, without the need to find reason to explain their actions. People expect Fehr to make the team over Boyd & Fraser etc. so there is no controversy and perhaps Sutter's goal was to eliminate that problem by the players invited in the first place.

This is true. It is sort of pointless to argue over some of the invites until the team itself is made, but honestly, to not at least give Bernier and Picard the chance to show how they would gel with this team was a major oversight.

That said, this is definitely a team that can win this tournament. I'm not trying to say that these (in my opinion) mistakes are going to cost them the gold. I just think the team is less strong as a result of some of the decisions that have been made.

 

[Flames Draft Watcher]

It is sort of pointless to argue over some of the invites until the team itself is made, but honestly, to not at least give Bernier and Picard the chance to show how they would gel with this team was a major oversight.

They had a chance to show themselves to Sutter. It's called the summer camp. Both were there. Neither did much in the scrimmages I watched. Don't think it didn't play a role.

 

[gb701]

I actually seen them all atleast 4 times.

Wow - a whole 4 times.

Absolutely unbelievable!

Hockey Canada has been watching these guys for years, scouting them, evaluating them, bringing them to camps, having them perform against each other at last summer's camp, interviewing them, talking to them in dressing rooms, following stats, etc.etc.etc.

But you know better because you have seen them 4 times.

Like I said, unbelievable. This debate has become stupid to the point of idiocy.

 

[gb701]

They had a chance to show themselves to Sutter. It's called the summer camp. Both were there. Neither did much in the scrimmages I watched. Don't think it didn't play a role.

Well said. The entire evaluation process, over a period of years, seems to have been missed by our arm chair experts.

 

[looooob]

I'm certainly not going to start being like the majority of Americans and blindly cheer for my country. Even when it comes to hockey, if something I don't like happens with a Canadian team, I will not just go along with it and be happy. I love Canada, but I don't think there is any obligation to cheer for them unless you like the players on the team.

well you are entitled to your view point. say what you will about the USA, but personally I think it makes sense to cheer for your OWN country when its a bunch of 18 and 19 year old kids playing for joy and national honor. if you don't feel that way, fair enough

 

[Senator Stanley]

I have only one problem with these selections as an Ontario resident, and that is Colin Fraser. Sutter obviously got him in. But this has happened before, and not just with WHL coach's. Jay McClement played two years in a row for Stan Butler and the only reason he was there was because Butler was his coach in Brampton of the OHL. It was obvious before the selections where announced that this was going to be a good year for the WHLers. No big surprise. Lets just drop this subject.

 

[gretzky99]

Notice how the majority of the people defending this team is from Western Canada. Isn't that ironic?

Notice how you are from Ontario and you were the one who brought this up? How Ironic.

Honestly, I respect you less now because of your lack of intelligence. How can you begin to call others biast when it is so blatantly obviuos that you yourself are the most biast here?