Hockey Canada should be accountable

[Al Camino]

Really, this thing a has evolved into a TSN made for TV event. After it's over it's TSN and everyone that doesn't live in junior market can go back to not covering or caring junior hockey until two weeks before the draft again.

 

[Pouchkine]

It's also that unlike the senior IIHF worlds the Junior-tournament gets a lot of media-coverage in Canada.

These days the Senior Worlds get a lot of coverage on TSN as well, they are showing a ton of games.

 

[Pouchkine]

By this logic, the 98-04 drought should have translated to disasters in 2002, the 2004 WC and 2010. A group of kids getting together only once for 3 weeks in December isn't going to dictate our senior level results.

2002 we were very lucky Belarus surprised the Swedes if not we would most probably have won 0 of the first 3 nhl olympics and the 2005 nhl worlds.

What we see now is Canada playing 1990's New Jersey Devils kind of hockey at home, that should never happen especially in a Junior tournament in which we should dominate most of the time.

 

[RandyBobandi]

We lost in the QFs of a U20 tournament to a Finland team who could very well win gold. I'm not heartbroken by it, and people should stop freaking out over the results of this tournament.

Sure, I'd love to have seen Canada win gold in Vancouver, again, but wasn't meant to be this time. We won gold last year, came up short in the GMG in a shootout in 2017 and won gold in 2015. It's not like the 98-04 drought. .

Exactly we lost to a team that could win the gold, it's not like we lost every game in the tournament. It sucks we lost it was a bad break on the tying goal and once you get to overtime it's anyone's game. Dobson could have easily scored if his stick didn't break and we could easily be in the semi finals. That's hockey sometimes she goes sometimes she doesn't. We can't expect to win every year people need to realize that. Yes it would be awesome if we dominated like we use to but that's not going to happen anymore. Other countries have caught up to us and that's okay. Like Rocko said we won gold last year, came up short in the GMG in a shootout in 2017 and won gold in 2015. If we weren't winning any medals the past couple years then yeah I would be upset and say we need to change things. We just need to realize a gold medal every year isn't going to happen.

 

[wishywashy19]

I just read the team didn't practice at all during the tournament. not even on off days. the late afternoon start time and players tired were the reasons given by the coaching staff for not having morning on ice sessions. Great decision there coach. the PP could have used some work.

lesson to Hockey Canada. next time you have a tournament on the west coast play the evening game PST and forget primetime viewership EST.

Do you think Hockey Canada learns this lesson or will they still just continue to cater to TSN and their corporate sponsors?

i have another idea.
something has to stick.
the CHL seems to not mind giving up the top players for a week in early November for the useless canada/russia series.
First of all- who did that series benefit the most???? BRAGIN of course. We junk it up and pretend it matters.
dump it!!!!
take the players that matter and work on skills- power play- penalty killing and goaltending skills
A skills camp for those who have skills.
If we had a half decent special teams- we would have won.
the two areas that used to suck.. goaltending and flagrant penalties are weeded out aren't they?
we are good 5 on 5. no worse than any other.
but special teams screws us over this year.
lets work on that.

 

[Pilky01]

Maybe if they didnt treat every loss like the worst thing that's ever happened in the history of Canadian hockey, there wouldn't be a mountain of pressure on the players every single year.

I like how OP's ridiculous post has zero like while this one has over 60.

 

[Dr Pepper]

I like how OP's ridiculous post has zero like while this one has over 60.

I didn't want to bring it up but I've been getting bombarded by "like" notifications for that one.

Was merely making an opinionated response to the OP, who by the looks of it created his account yesterday just so he could start this thread. Still stand by my post, too. TSN's partly to blame but the pressure Canada puts on these kids can definitely be a factor. Not to take anything away from the skilled players/teams/countries that have surpassed Canada in recent years, of course. Sometimes they're just flat out better, with or without the added media cheerleading.

 

[Pilky01]

I didn't want to bring it up but I've been getting bombarded by "like" notifications for that one.

Was merely making an opinionated response to the OP, who by the looks of it created his account yesterday just so he could start this thread. Still stand by my post, too. TSN's partly to blame but the pressure Canada puts on these kids can definitely be a factor. Not to take anything away from the skilled players/teams/countries that have surpassed Canada in recent years, of course. Sometimes they're just flat out better, with or without the added media cheerleading.

I think putting any blame on TSN is really misplaced. They're just a network presenting a sporting competition. And we all watch plenty of people younger than these boys compete. The Olympics is full of young teenagers.

I don't think its about "pressure" from Canadian fans or high expectations. This is about the times we live in and the technology we all have available to us.

 

[PG Canuck]

Reading this and about Comtois Instagram account, it seems to be big thing in Canada. At the 98 Olympic loss level.

When the tournament is done, people will literally forget and move on. It'll be fresh for a few weeks then it'll be over with.

 

[JackSlater]

I just read the team didn't practice at all during the tournament. not even on off days. the late afternoon start time and players tired were the reasons given by the coaching staff for not having morning on ice sessions. Great decision there coach. the PP could have used some work.

lesson to Hockey Canada. next time you have a tournament on the west coast play the evening game PST and forget primetime viewership EST.

Do you think Hockey Canada learns this lesson or will they still just continue to cater to TSN and their corporate sponsors?

If they didn't practice at all that's pretty ridiculous.

If we start getting bounced in the quarters of Olympic tournaments (with NHL players) or World Cups (as gimmicky as they might be) then I'll start to worry.

Far better to be proactive than reactive. World junior results are down for Canada in general, but of bigger concern is the quality of Canada's young players once they make the NHL. The general trend for Canada is pretty obvious, there is no need to wait for best on best results, especially when those tournaments happen sporadically and can hinge on a single goal in some instances. If Canada's generation of draft picks from 2003-2010 plus McDavid and MacKinnon can carry Canada to a 2020 World Cup victory, for instance, that doesn't mean that the last decade hasn't been very disappointing for Canada from a development perspective. It isn't as if Canada is ever going to be some weak team internationally, but the goal should be for Canada to be unquestionably on top. The resources are available, it's just a question of how they are utilized.

 

[Dr Pepper]

I think putting any blame on TSN is really misplaced. They're just a network presenting a sporting competition. And we all watch plenty of people younger than these boys compete. The Olympics is full of young teenagers.

I don't think its about "pressure" from Canadian fans or high expectations. This is about the times we live in and the technology we all have available to us.

Yes, TSN's just a network, and yes, ideally their purpose is to present a sporting competition. That's all well and good. I've no problem with the ample technology used to present the WJC's either.

But the way TSN constantly pumps our team's tires each and every year going into the WJCs, it just leads to increased pressure over what is supposed to be a mere showcase of young talent, and then the inevitable collapse and outcry/post-mortem whenever Canada loses. As if Canada's not supposed to lose, or something, and it's a shocking upset whenever it happens.

 

[Pilky01]

But the way TSN constantly pumps our team's tires each and every year going into the WJCs, it just leads to increased pressure over what is supposed to be a mere showcase of young talent, and then the inevitable collapse and outcry/post-mortem whenever Canada loses. As if Canada's not supposed to lose, or something, and it's a shocking upset whenever it happens.

I disagree. Its their job to promote the tournament and it isnt their fault that people on the internet can't behave themselves.

If you need to blame some kind of entity then blame Hockey Canada and the IIHF for chasing the money. TSN is no better or worse than any other network trying to attract viewers.

 

[Fogelhund]

Ultimately, if Canada wanted to continue to produce the best hockey players in the world, a National Developmental program is the best way to do it, not the current CHL method. Many other sports in Canada have already transitioned to such models, and while each has it's own flaws, having the best of the best training together, playing together, and being given the best coaching, training etc., would only benefit our elite athletes at every level.

Development is the key, not a focus on winning at a Midget, or Junior level, where often the focus is on limiting mistakes, instead of skills. Kids of all sports should be encouraged to try things, to make those mistakes, and develop elite skills. That we've continued to have success, despite mediocre efforts, shows how strong we are as a nation at hockey, but I do think we need a newer, and better strategy.

This isn't a hot take reaction on a singular event either. This result should have been an expected result from the beginning. The team Captain was a mid second round pick, the team scoring leader a #27 pick, and the fourth top scorer went through two drafts without being drafted at all. The only top ten pick of the forwards of the top four scorers is Cody Glass, and even then he's only a #6. Take a look a recent NHL drafts, and you will notice, fewer and fewer Canadian forwards among the top players selected in the draft. One last year in the top ten, three the year before, two the year before that.

2010 had 5 Canadian Forwards...

 

[blindpass]

Yes, TSN's just a network, and yes, ideally their purpose is to present a sporting competition. That's all well and good. I've no problem with the ample technology used to present the WJC's either.

But the way TSN constantly pumps our team's tires each and every year going into the WJCs, it just leads to increased pressure over what is supposed to be a mere showcase of young talent, and then the inevitable collapse and outcry/post-mortem whenever Canada loses. As if Canada's not supposed to lose, or something, and it's a shocking upset whenever it happens.

They broadcast to Canada, obviously they will emphasize the Canadian team. I generally find them realistic about the level of competition. Maybe the history of great success has expectations too high, and it is probably a big part of how TSN has been able to build their coverage and audience to what it is. When we win five in a row people started to take out for granted, but it was crazy to think that would continue forever.

Sorry that you got the wrong idea and can't accept that the gold isn't guaranteed, but that isn't coming from TSN.

 

[blindpass]

But the way TSN constantly pumps our team's tires each and every year going into the WJCs, it just leads to increased pressure over what is supposed to be a mere showcase of young talent, and then the inevitable collapse and outcry/post-mortem whenever Canada loses. As if Canada's not supposed to lose, or something, and it's a shocking upset whenever it happens.

The distortion is here. There was no collapse! There was a decent, but not overwhelming team, narrowly defeated by a couple of other decent . not overwhelming teams.

The outcry and postmortem is on forums like this, TSN moved on preety quickly and is broadcasting the rest and it's also balanced and high quality. Haven't heard any moaning or head scratching about Canada being out on the broadcast, because it was always a real possibility to anyone with any knowledge of the scene.

 

[stonec]

Ultimately, if Canada wanted to continue to produce the best hockey players in the world, a National Developmental program is the best way to do it, not the current CHL method. Many other sports in Canada have already transitioned to such models, and while each has it's own flaws, having the best of the best training together, playing together, and being given the best coaching, training etc., would only benefit our elite athletes at every level.

Development is the key, not a focus on winning at a Midget, or Junior level, where often the focus is on limiting mistakes, instead of skills. Kids of all sports should be encouraged to try things, to make those mistakes, and develop elite skills. That we've continued to have success, despite mediocre efforts, shows how strong we are as a nation at hockey, but I do think we need a newer, and better strategy.

This isn't a hot take reaction on a singular event either. This result should have been an expected result from the beginning. The team Captain was a mid second round pick, the team scoring leader a #27 pick, and the fourth top scorer went through two drafts without being drafted at all. The only top ten pick of the forwards of the top four scorers is Cody Glass, and even then he's only a #6. Take a look a recent NHL drafts, and you will notice, fewer and fewer Canadian forwards among the top players selected in the draft. One last year in the top ten, three the year before, two the year before that.

2010 had 5 Canadian Forwards...

Development is a key, but no focus on winning? Surely winning is ultimately the goal. You can develop players all you want, but if the team loses, something is going wrong. And no matter if the talent has gone down, a loss against Finland shouldn't have been an expected result. Canada has 600 000 registered hockey players, Finland has 70 000. Finland had no top 10 picks and the highest pick is Vaakanainen as number 18, the captain is a 160th pick.

 

[Get North]

Ultimately, if Canada wanted to continue to produce the best hockey players in the world, a National Developmental program is the best way to do it, not the current CHL method. Many other sports in Canada have already transitioned to such models, and while each has it's own flaws, having the best of the best training together, playing together, and being given the best coaching, training etc., would only benefit our elite athletes at every level.

Development is the key, not a focus on winning at a Midget, or Junior level, where often the focus is on limiting mistakes, instead of skills. Kids of all sports should be encouraged to try things, to make those mistakes, and develop elite skills. That we've continued to have success, despite mediocre efforts, shows how strong we are as a nation at hockey, but I do think we need a newer, and better strategy.

This isn't a hot take reaction on a singular event either. This result should have been an expected result from the beginning. The team Captain was a mid second round pick, the team scoring leader a #27 pick, and the fourth top scorer went through two drafts without being drafted at all. The only top ten pick of the forwards of the top four scorers is Cody Glass, and even then he's only a #6. Take a look a recent NHL drafts, and you will notice, fewer and fewer Canadian forwards among the top players selected in the draft. One last year in the top ten, three the year before, two the year before that.

2010 had 5 Canadian Forwards...

That's the best way to win junior tournaments, but not the best way to develop NHL players. You would be taking best players away from CHL teams to compete against other CHL teams? It would be a blow out. The CHL is great for giving players the opportunity to get a lot of ice-time against other good players, that's how players develop, with ice-time. The 4th liners on a national team aren't going to get ice-time. The American U18 team's 4th liners usually end up in Europe/minors or quit hockey. The strongest part of Canada is their depth at hockey, IMO a national team would start to destroy that. It works for USA because they don't have the depth of Canada and the players who are left over usually join the CHL.

I think we need less CHL teams, I'd say cut 1-2 teams in each league. The NHL is expanding and the CHL still has too many teams. There's no need for CHL goons on the 4th line (they still exist), it's a waste of a roster spot because there's no roster spot for a player like that on the NHL. Make the CHL a more competitive league, reduce the schedule (they don't need to play a high amount of games like the NHL, that's what the AHL is for), and join the other nations at the U18s.

 

[JackSlater]

That's the best way to win junior tournaments, but not the best way to develop NHL players. You would be taking best players away from CHL teams to compete against other CHL teams? It would be a blow out. The CHL is great for giving players the opportunity to get a lot of ice-time against other good players, that's how players develop, with ice-time. The 4th liners on a national team aren't going to get ice-time. The American U18 team's 4th liners usually end up in Europe/minors or quit hockey. The strongest part of Canada is their depth at hockey, IMO a national team would start to destroy that. It works for USA because they don't have the depth of Canada and the players who are left over usually join the CHL.

I think we need less CHL teams, I'd say cut 1-2 teams in each league. The NHL is expanding and the CHL still has too many teams. There's no need for CHL goons on the 4th line (they still exist), it's a waste of a roster spot because there's no roster spot for a player like that on the NHL. Make the CHL a more competitive league, reduce the schedule (they don't need to play a high amount of games like the NHL, that's what the AHL is for), and join the other nations at the U18s.

Yes, that is the issue with a centralized national team and the idea to reduce the size of the CHL is better. Honestly though, it would be more effective to improve development before the players are 16.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Hockey Canada has to face the facts. The other big hockey nations have caught up in their development of quality young players. This Juniors team was nothing special, not enough game breakers. So then do something about it, because they are going to continue do hemorrhage good players to the NCAA or elsewhere.

Or just chalk it up as *ahem* tough one, and tow the line.

 

[blindpass]

Hockey Canada has to face the facts. The other big hockey nations have caught up in their development of quality young players. This Juniors team was nothing special, not enough game breakers. So then do something about it, because they are going to continue do hemorrhage good players to the NCAA or elsewhere.

Or just chalk it up as *ahem* tough one, and tow the line.

Uh, NCAA players are still eligible to play for Canada (e.g. Mitchell). Blame the NHLs obsession with growing the game in the US for their gains (e.g. Matthews out of Arizona, among many from non-traditional hockey States)

So, chicken little, I'll take the second option. I mean our one year gold medal drought is rough, but let's give it a bit more time before we panic.

 

[hockey20000]

daIe hunter for 2020 coach

 

[donghabs98]

When the tournament is done, people will literally forget and move on. It'll be fresh for a few weeks then it'll be over with.

It's the same thing every year after a shocking or tough loss. Everyone immediately looks for a scapegoat, followed by insecurity over the strength of Canadian hockey and then once the tournament is over or a week passes everyone moves on and we start talking about something else.

While I do have some concerns over coaching/management decisions, its equally important to think objectively about this loss for Canada. The team was 46 seconds away from moving to the semis against a strong team despite not playing well. No doubt there are lessons to be learned but the roof isnt caving in here because of this loss.

 

[Monaakko]

I don't think the problem (as far as there actually is one) is player development. Canada still produces by far the most talent, and while other nations are catching up, it's not like there's a permanent lull in player development. There's been a couple of weak drafts, but that has happened before, it's just that now when Canada has a weak draft there will be an American or a Swede etc. at the top of that draft instead of a Canadian with a lesser pedigree.

A national development program is an effective tool for player development, but it also narrows the pool of potential players. That's fine for a lesser nation i.e. everyone else where the depth isn't there. Also it raises the question of where a USNTDP team equivalent would play. The CHL is not conducive to allowing a setup where such a team could play and if it played elsewhere it would drain the CHL of talent. Furthermore a canadian version of the USNTDP team would probably be too good for the CHL anyway, which is the same reason Sweden and Finland don't have such a program. I think a better solution is to follow the Swedish or Finnish models and have national team camps every now and again and play friendlies or small tournaments and allow players to become familiar with each other and the system. I don't know how this would work in conjunction with the CHL, but i don't think it would be too difficult to arrange. Furthermore hiring a permanent coaching staff and not just picking one for a particular tournament would probably do wonders. It allows for proper scouting of available players, and establishing a firm system rather than improvising every tournament.

 

[canuck2010]

Ultimately, if Canada wanted to continue to produce the best hockey players in the world, a National Developmental program is the best way to do it, not the current CHL method. Many other sports in Canada have already transitioned to such models, and while each has it's own flaws, having the best of the best training together, playing together, and being given the best coaching, training etc., would only benefit our elite athletes at every level.

Development is the key, not a focus on winning at a Midget, or Junior level, where often the focus is on limiting mistakes, instead of skills. Kids of all sports should be encouraged to try things, to make those mistakes, and develop elite skills. That we've continued to have success, despite mediocre efforts, shows how strong we are as a nation at hockey, but I do think we need a newer, and better strategy.

This isn't a hot take reaction on a singular event either. This result should have been an expected result from the beginning. The team Captain was a mid second round pick, the team scoring leader a #27 pick, and the fourth top scorer went through two drafts without being drafted at all. The only top ten pick of the forwards of the top four scorers is Cody Glass, and even then he's only a #6. Take a look a recent NHL drafts, and you will notice, fewer and fewer Canadian forwards among the top players selected in the draft. One last year in the top ten, three the year before, two the year before that.

2010 had 5 Canadian Forwards...

4 in 2017 to be accurate, but I understand your point.

 

[VanJack]

Hockey Canada has to face the facts. The other big hockey nations have caught up in their development of quality young players. This Juniors team was nothing special, not enough game breakers. So then do something about it, because they are going to continue do hemorrhage good players to the NCAA or elsewhere.

Or just chalk it up as *ahem* tough one, and tow the line.

Every year it's the same. Observers try to extrapolate the results of this tournament with the broader issues of which nation is ascending and which is descending. First off, this is a tournament for basically 19-year old hockey players. And it's often the case that some of the best players in that age group aren't even playing. I believe McDavid was eligible for this tournament during his first two NHL seasons.

With the NHl getting younger, more and more teams aren't releasing players for this tournament. So the WJC is basically a tournament for 'some 19-year olds'. This year's Finnish team for example has five players on NHL teams who weren't released by their NHL teams to play.

More and more, this tournaments means nothing in terms of assessing the strength of national programs. The TSN hype machine would like you think otherwise. I don't even think the NHL scouts are placing much emphasis on this tournament anymore because most of them are already drafted. And if history is any guide, many will top out as either AHL players or bound for Europe.

So the WJC is much ado about nothing imo.