Hockey Canada should be accountable

[blindpass]

Every year it's the same. Observers try to extrapolate the results of this tournament with the broader issues of which nation is ascending and which is descending. First off, this is a tournament for basically 19-year old hockey players. And it's often the case that some of the best players in that age group aren't even playing. I believe McDavid was eligible for this tournament during his first two NHL seasons.

With the NHl getting younger, more and more teams aren't releasing players for this tournament. So the WJC is basically a tournament for 'some 19-year olds'. This year's Finnish team for example has five players on NHL teams who weren't released by their NHL teams to play.

More and more, this tournaments means nothing in terms of assessing the strength of national programs. The TSN hype machine would like you think otherwise. I don't even think the NHL scouts are placing much emphasis on this tournament anymore because most of them are already drafted. And if history is any guide, many will top out as either AHL players or bound for Europe.

So the WJC is much ado about nothing imo.

No offense, but this comes across as sour grapes.

The WJC isn't the preview of the future senior best-on-best, because there are no future senior best-on-bests coming; as things stand. Even if there were, there's no reason not to enjoy it on its own, as a preview of future talent, and a tournament played between unjaded non-millionaires.

If you are feeling defensive because your country is losing its stranglehold on success then you are investing too much of your ego on external things. You've got f***-all to do with their success.

Of course on another level you are completely right, the WJC, like all sports, is much ado about nothing.

 

[Fearnot]

Canada probably shouldn't be allowed to attend next year and just reflect on the year prior.

 

[golfortennis]

I disagree. Its their job to promote the tournament and it isnt their fault that people on the internet can't behave themselves.

If you need to blame some kind of entity then blame Hockey Canada and the IIHF for chasing the money. TSN is no better or worse than any other network trying to attract viewers.

Um, this is the network that would ambush junior hockey players at 5:30 am that were leaving the hotel after being told they were cut from the team.

TSN has * a lot* to do with the current state of affairs in terms of the importance put on the tournament.

 

[blindpass]

Um, this is the network that would ambush junior hockey players at 5:30 am that were leaving the hotel after being told they were cut from the team.

TSN has * a lot* to do with the current state of affairs in terms of the importance put on the tournament.

I agree it is stupid to ambush the cut players.

I think it is a strange thought process that leads to concluding that the tournament getting attention is a bad thing. Should they hold it in secret so nobody gets upset by a disappointing outcome ? Fans could grow up a bit instead.

 

[snipes]

Does the NHL give money to Hockey Canada like they do the USNTDP?

 

[blindpass]

Does the NHL give money to Hockey Canada like they do the USNTDP?

Is there a reference to this USNTDP funding?

 

[golfortennis]

Does the NHL give money to Hockey Canada like they do the USNTDP?

Better. They agree to send any players who don't make the clubs back to CHL franchises rather than the AHL. This keeps the value of franchises up.

 

[golfortennis]

I agree it is stupid to ambush the cut players.

I think it is a strange thought process that leads to concluding that the tournament getting attention is a bad thing. Should they hold it in secret so nobody gets upset by a disappointing outcome ? Fans could grow up a bit instead.

Please. Calling TSN's coverage and overall attitude towards the event "the tournament getting coverage" is like dismissing the idiot who told COmtois he hoped died of AIDS by saying he was just having a conversation.

And again, it's not the disappointing outcome. It's the fact that outcome happened due to organizational decisions that basically amounted to actively neutralizing whatever opportunities to win the squad may have had. Management is the problem.

TSN's contributions is that they have made this thing into a cash cow for HC.

Making of a monster: How TSN transformed the world juniors from small-time curiosity into must-see TV

Being based on Canada, HC is going to cash in on this. And as they have shown, it will lead to arrogance in management.

 

[JackSlater]

Does the NHL give money to Hockey Canada like they do the USNTDP?

As far as I know it is only given to USA Hockey.

 

[snipes]

As far as I know it is only given to USA Hockey.

Wonder why that is? Bettman’s “grow the game” only in the USA philosophy?

 

[JackSlater]

Wonder why that is? Bettman’s “grow the game” only in the USA philosophy?

Hockey Canada isn't lacking for money. I doubt that USA Hockey has many revenue streams.

 

[TheTwelfth]

Canada is about as good as it always has been. The tournament started getting broadcast in European countries about a decade back, and it is now a big deal in Sweden and Finland too. 2019
Draft is looking very Canada heavy at the top.

Game has grown. Give credit to the US, Sweden and Finland for being able to produce top talent consistently now, and being able to compete with Canada in international tournaments. It pushes Canadians to be better too.

 

[Sigismund]

Lol, the Canadians were hyping this tournament like 10-15 years ago, when, for instance, no one in Finland even knew what the f this was about.

Now that we have won the tournament, Canadians say that this tournament isn't what it used to be.

Come on, Canucks. Americans. Swedes.

We won - the Finns won. We have the best juniors in 2019.

So sour. Soooooooo sour.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Accountable for the fact that the sport of Hockey is slowly slipping away in the consciousness of our country? What type of children play Hockey anymore? Maybe time for government intervention, Hockey was never suppose to be a upper class sport. It was a game for the masses and now that you've lost that, so have all the elite talents that should be developing.

Imagine Gretzky growing up in this era, he would have never played Hockey. Is that the way Hockey in Canada was meant to be?

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

For Canada's defense, they have lost to world champions often.

 

[Psych0dad]

The sooner TSN realizes this, the better it'll be for all of us.

Every year they dress this up like it's "Canada's march to a well-deserved gold medal.....oh and there's some other teams involved too, we think".

Whenever Canada loses, though, it's like a goddamn funeral. "Shocking upset! What happened? What went so horribly wrong? Here's some post-game interviews we did with Canadian players heartbroken at letting the nation down!"

I get that it's a Canadian network and all but the amount of pressure that TSN's treatment of this tournament has placed on these kids, year after year, must be incredible.

Yeah it's nuts. In Finland it's kinda like a nice bonus gift every year if they win. But nobody goes nuts if they don't.

 

[hangman005]

Yeah it's nuts. In Finland it's kinda like a nice bonus gift every year if they win. But nobody goes nuts if they don't.

You’ll get there in time, but like in NZ we are the best at rugby and if we lose a game there are like 26 government inquiries 18 criminal investigations. Well maybe I’m exaggerating a lot but you get the gist.

 

[Psych0dad]

You’ll get there in time, but like in NZ we are the best at rugby and if we lose a game there are like 26 government inquiries 18 criminal investigations. Well maybe I’m exaggerating a lot but you get the gist.

Yeah i know what you mean. In Finnish hockey though the idea has for a while been, to have courage to play the way you want to play, and even though expectations are high every year, fear of losing is not going to stop them from trying. Helps to have that mentality.

Better to hate losing than fear it.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Canadian arrogance in full display by some in this thread

news flash--other countries play hockey and produce pretty good hockey players

we get this thread EVERY time we do not win GOLD

 

[blindpass]

Please. Calling TSN's coverage and overall attitude towards the event "the tournament getting coverage" is like dismissing the idiot who told COmtois he hoped died of AIDS by saying he was just having a conversation.

I've agreed that the practice of interviewing cut players is too much. Other than that I can't see how their close coverage could be a bad thing to anyone who enjoys the tournament. You are more than welcome to take in as little of it as you like.

And again, it's not the disappointing outcome. It's the fact that outcome happened due to organizational decisions that basically amounted to actively neutralizing whatever opportunities to win the squad may have had. Management is the problem.

I think roster selection was fine, and there wasn't much criticism of that ahead of time.
Better coaching could have helped somewhat, I don't disagree, but I also have a bit of humility about that opinion. We love to second guess when things go wrong, thinking this or that adjustment would have made all the difference. We don't get to rerun the experiment to find out if we were right or wrong so the exercise is cheap.

TSN's contributions is that they have made this thing into a cash cow for HC.

Making of a monster: How TSN transformed the world juniors from small-time curiosity into must-see TV

Thank you, this is a really good article. Have you read it? My favorite point is the observation that the tournament is just really compelling hockey. That's why they've been able to grow it so much.

There was a time when the standard dismissal of Canada's success was that nobody else cares, and that might have been true then. Nobody can claim that now, and the hockey is all the better for it. This is a big deal to many hockey fans in many countries and that makes it more fun. TSN is a big part of that.

Being based on Canada, HC is going to cash in on this. And as they have shown, it will lead to arrogance in management.

I don't follow this. How does it being a cash cow lead to mismanagement? If it brings money to HC then it's probably really good for the success of hockey in Canada.

So to sum up, you think it is TSN that makes too much of the WJC, not the people who get so worked up over a disappointing outcome that they need to aggressively pinpoint a narrow locus of blame (HC, Hunter, Comtois, pick your favorite); who are attaching too much pride to the outcome of events they aren't personally part of rather than recognizing that it is entertainment.

I think you've got it backwards.

 

[golfortennis]

I've agreed that the practice of interviewing cut players is too much. Other than that I can't see how their close coverage could be a bad thing to anyone who enjoys the tournament. You are more than welcome to take in as little of it as you like.


I think roster selection was fine, and there wasn't much criticism of that ahead of time.
Better coaching could have helped somewhat, I don't disagree, but I also have a bit of humility about that opinion. We love to second guess when things go wrong, thinking this or that adjustment would have made all the difference. We don't get to rerun the experiment to find out if we were right or wrong so the exercise is cheap.



Thank you, this is a really good article. Have you read it? My favorite point is the observation that the tournament is just really compelling hockey. That's why they've been able to grow it so much.

There was a time when the standard dismissal of Canada's success was that nobody else cares, and that might have been true then. Nobody can claim that now, and the hockey is all the better for it. This is a big deal to many hockey fans in many countries and that makes it more fun. TSN is a big part of that.


I don't follow this. How does it being a cash cow lead to mismanagement? If it brings money to HC then it's probably really good for the success of hockey in Canada.

So to sum up, you think it is TSN that makes too much of the WJC, not the people who get so worked up over a disappointing outcome that they need to aggressively pinpoint a narrow locus of blame (HC, Hunter, Comtois, pick your favorite); who are attaching too much pride to the outcome of events they aren't personally part of rather than recognizing that it is entertainment.

I think you've got it backwards.

TSN has everything to do with the fact the other countries are into it. They produce all 31 games and are host broadcaster everywhere. They have made available every game for broadcast that never was available before. "Its just really compelling hockey." To a degree, sure, but is someone from TSN really going to say otherwise? A lot of hockey is compelling, but only some of it makes it on the front page and takes up how many hours of programming(TSN replays these games over airing something happening live at many points during the year. Why would they do that?)

Hockey Canada is the same organization that would not allow kids from a local hockey association to skate in between periods at the under-17 event here a couple years ago. "insurance" was the BS reason given, but it was because they did not want an "outlaw" league(read, don't pay the tribute) to have any benefit. HC, thanks in no small part to TSN's money(which conveniently they never announce any amounts that I could find when they announce the "strengthening of their partnerships), is fast heading down the path of the IOC or FIFA as opposed to the benevolent organization you seem to think they are. Like several non-profit organizations, there's lots of fluff in their annual report they publish, but I don't see much in the way of financials.

Lots of money to HC means good things for those on the inside of HC. but that's a very different thing from the success of hockey in Canada.

 

[jj cale]

Lol, the Canadians were hyping this tournament like 10-15 years ago, when, for instance, no one in Finland even knew what the f this was about.

Now that we have won the tournament, Canadians say that this tournament isn't what it used to be.

Come on, Canucks. Americans. Swedes.

We won - the Finns won. We have the best juniors in 2019.

So sour. Soooooooo sour.

So? the tournament only became big in Finland when they saw they could finally win it and have a real chance for Gold most years. If that hadn't happened they would be saying the same thing they used to say about the tournament..........................that it's just a nothing junior tournament. But
of course now it's "important" and a measuring stick of the respective strength of each countries program. Funny how that works eh?

So I think you can get off your high horse about what Canadians think about the tournament, just enjoy your current moment in the sun.

 

[blindpass]

TSN has everything to do with the fact the other countries are into it. They produce all 31 games and are host broadcaster everywhere.

Agreed and I said as much. Seems like a good thing.

They have made available every game for broadcast that never was available before. "Its just really compelling hockey." To a degree, sure, but is someone from TSN really going to say otherwise? A lot of hockey is compelling, but only some of it makes it on the front page and takes up how many hours of programming(TSN replays these games over airing something happening live at many points during the year. Why would they do that?)

Well, they got cut out of NHL broadcasting by the Sportsnet deal. They don't have much else. WJC is compelling because it is international, best-on-best and showcases the next crop of players. I'm not sure how anyone who likes hockey could want less of it. If you think they overdo it, don't watch it.

Hockey Canada is the same organization that would not allow kids from a local hockey association to skate in between periods at the under-17 event here a couple years ago. "insurance" was the BS reason given, but it was because they did not want an "outlaw" league(read, don't pay the tribute) to have any benefit.

I don't know the story you are talking about. A sketchy anecdote isn't much use here. It's there any source for this? Why do you think the "insurance" issue was a facade?

HC, thanks in no small part to TSN's money(which conveniently they never announce any amounts that I could find when they announce the "strengthening of their partnerships), is fast heading down the path of the IOC or FIFA as opposed to the benevolent organization you seem to think they are. Like several non-profit organizations, there's lots of fluff in their annual report they publish, but I don't see much in the way of financials.

Lots of money to HC means good things for those on the inside of HC. but that's a very different thing from the success of hockey in Canada.

So it sounds like your issue is that you think HC is a very corrupt organization. That could be, but you haven't made any convincing case that it is. I believe there's plenty of corruption in the world, and I believe there are people who imagine it where it doesn't exist, so your outrage alone isn't pursuasive. If you have evidence that HC executives are misappropriating funds that would be a big story.

I'm still not seeing how this means TSN's coverage is a problem. They have a business relationship with HC, so what? What am I missing?

Addendum:
I searched a bit on HC corruption and found articles about HC barring players that join non-HC hockey programs. Seems like an interesting topic. I'm definitely inclined not to like that, but can also see some legitimate reasons for wanting to keep standards centralized. Still, nothing to do with TSN coverage as far as I can see, nor anything to do with Team Canada performance.

 

[jj cale]

Wonder why that is? Bettman’s “grow the game” only in the USA philosophy?

Pretty much.

 

[jj cale]

Hockey Canada isn't lacking for money. I doubt that USA Hockey has many revenue streams.

It's a business decision and I get that, still the fact that the top domestic pro league in the world financially supports only one countries hockey program is more then a little greasy and sort of corrupt, the fact that U.S.A hockey may have little revenue streams(though this is difficult to accept for me considering how rich the U.S is, hard to believe they are strapped for cash in anything athletics related) is solely their responsibility to work out, not the N.H.L's, at least it shouldn't be.

It's a loading the dice situation for one country, not what the N.H.L should be about IMO.

If they were doing that only for Canada I would be more then a little sheepish about that as a fan, I wouldn't feel good about it. I would know we would be getting favoured and provided with an edge no one else is provided with and that is not what athletics is supposed to be about, pro leagues shouldn't be about that.

I mean, what's next? FIFA starts pouring massive money into the U.S football program so they can get up to speed in football and win a few world cups?

But I get why they are doing it..................the almighty dollar, you can't talk sportsmanship and morals with owners, they are all about the buck.