Proposal: Hertl to BOS

[zar]

It’s not a player signing with the original team and then getting traded, it’s the player agreeing to a contract extension with the new team as part of the trade. In recent years Pacioretty, Stone, Karlsson are all names off the top of my head.

I read it as a Subban type transaction... signs extension then traded.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Hypothetically speaking:

Sharks are completely out of contention at the dead line.
Hertl has made it clear that he has no intention on staying long term in SJ.
Sharks ask him for his three team list and he lists Arizona (no interest in signing there long term they don't give an offer for him),
Vegas (just traded for 10M worth of Eichel and now are trouble with the cap so do not give an offer for him), and Boston because he wants to play long term with Pastrnak.

Is that still the offer Boston gives SJ for Hertl?
Is that still the only offer SJ would accept from Boston for him?

Boston isn’t going to know who the three teams are. Nor if that list expands or not. If a team is going to lowball offer, they’re not going to trade him.

 

[LTIR]

Boston isn’t going to know who the three teams are. Nor if that list expands or not. If a team is going to lowball offer, they’re not going to trade him.

Doesn't seem like a lowball offer at all and more of an overpayment for a rental.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Seems like a bit of an overpay IMO.

A recent 1st round pick, and another 1st round pick. DeBrusk IMO still holds value right now but if he doesn't start to turn things around he could be perceived as a cap dump by the deadline. Lysell is arguably Boston's very best prospect and you basically never see that tier of prospect traded for a rental. Even with an "extension in place" you dont see it often and if you do there's not another 1st attached to it. I've said this in multiple Hertl threads now, but the Mark Stone trade really is the perfect comparable here.


Hertl's value is going to be largely effected by just how strict he is on that NTC. If he ends up waiving that NTC and opens the floor for a bidding war, yeah he might end up going for something roughly close to this(Still dont think it will be 2 1sts like this deal essentially is though). But if he sticks to his NTC and tells San Jose he's only willing to go to the three teams he lists... Its probably going to be difficult for San Jose to get great value on him. They should still get that 1st round pick, but the prospect included wont be nearly to the level of a guy like Lysell IMO. Even more so if Hertl decides he only wants to play for one team, and includes teams like Arizona and Buffalo as 2/3 of his trade teams.


It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. Not very often you see a potential UFA still in his prime with a NTC as limiting as what Hertl's is. Not very often you see a 3 team NTC in general. San Jose gives them out like candy though.

 

[Syckle78]

I would hope Yzerman would top that for an extended Hertl.

 

[OrrNumber4]

It’s not a player signing with the original team and then getting traded, it’s the player agreeing to a contract extension with the new team as part of the trade. In recent years Pacioretty, Stone, Karlsson are all names off the top of my head.

Karlsson?

 

[EK392000]

As a Bruins fan, realistically I think the window is closed now, and Lysell is going to hopefully be a fixture on the team moving forward. Boston isn't going to need a full, tear it all down rebuild. They already have a young, stud #1 d-man, a Rocket-winning scoring winger, and a young goalie that is looking like he could be a game-stealer for a long time. The core of the future is already there, Lysell is a nice piece to hopefully compliment that.

I love the idea of Hertl as a rental to maybe go for another run with Bergy and Marchand, but I don't love the idea of extending Hertl into his mid-30s when they should be focused on getting younger. I want to see more out of the Bruins current roster before I start trading away futures though.

That’s fair. The Bruins do need to restock the prospect cupboard.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Seems like a bit of an overpay IMO.

A recent 1st round pick, and another 1st round pick. DeBrusk IMO still holds value right now but if he doesn't start to turn things around he could be perceived as a cap dump by the deadline. Lysell is arguably Boston's very best prospect and you basically never see that tier of prospect traded for a rental. Even with an "extension in place" you dont see it often and if you do there's not another 1st attached to it. I've said this in multiple Hertl threads now, but the Mark Stone trade really is the perfect comparable here.


Hertl's value is going to be largely effected by just how strict he is on that NTC. If he ends up waiving that NTC and opens the floor for a bidding war, yeah he might end up going for something roughly close to this(Still dont think it will be 2 1sts like this deal essentially is though). But if he sticks to his NTC and tells San Jose he's only willing to go to the three teams he lists... Its probably going to be difficult for San Jose to get great value on him. They should still get that 1st round pick, but the prospect included wont be nearly to the level of a guy like Lysell IMO. Even more so if Hertl decides he only wants to play for one team, and includes teams like Arizona and Buffalo as 2/3 of his trade teams.


It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. Not very often you see a potential UFA still in his prime with a NTC as limiting as what Hertl's is. Not very often you see a 3 team NTC in general. San Jose gives them out like candy though.

A bit possibly. Patches trade is a good example. Got Suzuki, a 2nd and Tatar who is much, much better than Debrusk. Signed extension with the trade I believe.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

It would be like someone offering a really good 30 year old goalie with a year left on his deal to SJ for Bordeleau and a 1st. I mean, Karlsson, Couture, etc are getting up there, why not try to win now....

Except San Jose hasn't been rumoured to be looking for goalies since they signed Hill/Reimer, and Boston has been rumoured to centers since Krejci retired. San Jose is also a borderline basement dweller while Boston is a borderline cup contender. These really aren't similar situations at all.

 

[wintersej]

Boston isn’t going to know who the three teams are. Nor if that list expands or not. If a team is going to lowball offer, they’re not going to trade him.

Meh, that's what Sabres fans said.

 

[wintersej]

If I am Boston, I stare at this proposal for a real long time. And ultimately say no.

And then I go see if I can get someone like Rakell for a lot cheaper. Bruins just need a legit top 6 talent to pair with Hall on the 2nd line. It doesn't have to be a center, it can be a RW. If they went for a center, a right shot center that can play catch with Hall would be better.

If Hertl flexes his NMC in a way where Boston could move 1st+Studnicka/Beecher+ I think Boston is all over it, but Lysell is really out performing his draft position right now and Boston's is a system full of 2 way grinders and short on talent.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

Boston’s window is closing and will be closed by the time Lysell enters his prime. Bergeron and Marchand will likely have retired, or be very close to it, so hanging on to Lysell until then does very little for the cup aspirations now.

Bruins have very little in the cupboard for potential top 6 forwards.

I understand give-to-get, but Lysell does a lot for them.

I think their cup aspirations ended in 2019, quite honestly. Sure they can be a playoff team, but taking a hard honest look at the team, Hertl definitely fills a need, but not sure if it would be enough to push them over again. I personally am embracing the eventual rebuild. I think Lysell is a big part of that. In terms of prospects, I'd say Swayman and Lysell are the only ones I'd have on a very short list of prospects I wouldn't trade in this deal.

This said, what management does and what I'd like to see happen differ a lot. So who knows.

 

[Groo]

Bruins have very little in the cupboard for potential top 6 forwards.

I understand give-to-get, but Lysell does a lot for them.

I think their cup aspirations ended in 2019, quite honestly. Sure they can be a playoff team, but taking a hard honest look at the team, Hertl definitely fills a need, but not sure if it would be enough to push them over again. I personally am embracing the eventual rebuild. I think Lysell is a big part of that. In terms of prospects, I'd say Swayman and Lysell are the only ones I'd have on a very short list of prospects I wouldn't trade in this deal.

This said, what management does and what I'd like to see happen differ a lot. So who knows.

That's too bad as those are the two it would no doubt take

 

[Hookslide]

That’s fair. The Bruins do need to restock the prospect cupboard.

Yes they do , the problem with restocking is the guy doing the restocking.............Donnie Sweeney

 

[BlackFrancis]

Tatar who is much, much better than Debrusk

At the time of the trade?

lol, no he was not.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Doesn't seem like a lowball offer at all and more of an overpayment for a rental.

It's under the impression that the poster I quoted was going to change the offer based on limited suitors which isn't going to happen here.

Meh, that's what Sabres fans said.

Difference being the Sharks are content to keep him and try to re-sign or try to compete with him. It's not a long term contract to deal with. It's this season. If Hertl tries to hardball the organization with his trade list then they'll let him finish his contract here if there isn't a good deal out there. The op is a good deal clearly but what I quoted was a different scenario.

 

[wintersej]

It's under the impression that the poster I quoted was going to change the offer based on limited suitors which isn't going to happen here.



Difference being the Sharks are content to keep him and try to re-sign or try to compete with him. It's not a long term contract to deal with. It's this season. If Hertl tries to hardball the organization with his trade list then they'll let him finish his contract here if there isn't a good deal out there. The op is a good deal clearly but what I quoted was a different scenario.

We will see. Really depend on if Hertl seems interested in re-signing or not. I have seen the public comments from Hertl, but we have no idea on reality. If he ain't coming back, the Sharks aren't just going to pout and let him walk for nothing.

Its really hard to talk about a Hertl deal because we don't really know what is going on. He could be open to anywhere as a rental, in which case the OP will be one of several similar offers, or he could try to force the Sharks hand...and the Sharks aren't going to not take a 1st over nothing on principle... or so many options in the middle.

 

[Gecklund]

Hurts from the Bruins which probably means it’s fair value. I don’t do it because the Bruins will be rebuilding soon and would love to kee that 1st in 2022 (deep draft) and Lysell.

what about
Studnicka
1st in 2023
+DeBrusk

That’s bad

 

[Pinkfloyd]

We will see. Really depend on if Hertl seems interested in re-signing or not. I have seen the public comments from Hertl, but we have no idea on reality. If he ain't coming back, the Sharks aren't just going to pout and let him walk for nothing.

Its really hard to talk about a Hertl deal because we don't really know what is going on. He could be open to anywhere as a rental, in which case the OP will be one of several similar offers, or he could try to force the Sharks hand...and the Sharks aren't going to not take a 1st over nothing on principle... or so many options in the middle.

But the situation isn't including any of the assumptions you've got going on here. At this point, there's no reason to assume that Hertl wants out. Keeping Hertl will be the best outcome for the Sharks because any deal has a high likelihood of not returning anything at his level.

 

[wintersej]

But the situation isn't including any of the assumptions you've got going on here. At this point, there's no reason to assume that Hertl wants out. Keeping Hertl will be the best outcome for the Sharks because any deal has a high likelihood of not returning anything at his level.

Well, the only real evidence we have right now of anything is that he doesn't have a contract signed with the Sharks beyond this season. Everything about him wanting to stay or leave beyond that is just folks making things up.

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

no thanks.
I'd think Lysell has a good chance to make the B's next season.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Well, the only real evidence we have right now of anything is that he doesn't have a contract signed with the Sharks beyond this season. Everything about him wanting to stay or leave beyond that is just folks making things up.

If we take him at his word, he doesn't know. Until he knows he wants to leave, it's in the Sharks' best interest to keep him.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

According to EHM, (this was a CPU trade), this was all that it took for UFA Hertl. (this is not serious, for anyone that thinks otherwise)

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

That's too bad as those are the two it would no doubt take

If you want both, my guess is that the Bruins easily pass. Even if Hertl is signed.

Where the Bruins currently stand organizationally, I would not give up either Swayman or Lysell. They are going to need young upcoming players. Acquiring Hertl would be nice, but there's just too many roster holes to make that a worthwhile acquisition at a premium price IMO.

Hertl will get a decent package, but things to consider.
1. Sign-and-trades don't happen. Unless SJ has granted the acquiring team to discuss a contract beforehand, no one is paying more than rental prices.
2. No more conditions on signings, neither team can add conditions based on Hertl re-signing.
3. Hertl has an NTC, which will likely lower the cost quite a bit.

My guess to whatever team he goes to:
Cap + 1st + prospect (depending on if the other team is allowed to discuss extension and by when).

 

[Groo]

If you want both, my guess is that the Bruins easily pass. Even if Hertl is signed.

Where the Bruins currently stand organizationally, I would not give up either Swayman or Lysell. They are going to need young upcoming players. Acquiring Hertl would be nice, but there's just too many roster holes to make that a worthwhile acquisition at a premium price IMO.

Hertl will get a decent package, but things to consider.
1. Sign-and-trades don't happen. Unless SJ has granted the acquiring team to discuss a contract beforehand, no one is paying more than rental prices.
2. No more conditions on signings, neither team can add conditions based on Hertl re-signing.
3. Hertl has an NTC, which will likely lower the cost quite a bit.

My guess to whatever team he goes to:
Cap + 1st + prospect (depending on if the other team is allowed to discuss extension and by when).

The Bruins aren't mu team but I got to think management and the current roster will be trying to win it all.
What the real difference between Swayman and Lysell vs 1 st and a prospect?