Hearing for Torres on Stoll hit (Thurs 9am PT, NYC; w/DW); out for rest of WCSF

[do0glas]

Yes you can. He is saying the contact to the shoulder was incidental. It is unquestionable that Stoll took the brunt of the blow to the head. Shannahan is saying Torres did it on purpose

lol what?

its completely questionable that he took the brunt of the blow to the head. ive watched that video a ton of time, obviously im not an expert...but there is nothing conclusive.

his explanation that it was shoulder to shoulder just makes it lose all credibility, imo.


listen, im no raffi apologist. i wasnt against the trade when it happened, and i wont knee jerk about the suspension and say it was a bad idea.

i think raffi got jobbed here. if wingels goes out of that game, the penner hit gets looked at too.

if shanny is saying he intended to hit the head on purpose, why is it just the rest of the series? when the last one was 25 games? cant make it make sense there.

 

[WantonAbandon]

No he did not say he targeted Stoll's head. In fact he conspicuously did NOT address the targeting issue -- because it would nullify his case. Which it does since he did not target Stoll's head.

"rather than hit stoll through the core of his body, Torres takes a route that makes Stolls head the principal point of contact."

You are arguing semantics and every thing in this quote by Shanahan is absolutely 100% true. Are you saying that that Stoll did not take the brunt of the hit to his head? If so you are kidding yourself. Of course the head was the principal point of contact...

 

[Berto2k]

now penner on wingels on the other hand...

I tweeted about that hit to @NHLPlayerSafety. blow up their inbox.

 

[WantonAbandon]

lol what?

its completely questionable that he took the brunt of the blow to the head.

You are straight up being dishonest with yourself

 

[do0glas]

You are straight up being dishonest with yourself

no...im not.

I and a **** ton of other people disagree with you.

 

[WantonAbandon]

no...im not.

I and a **** ton of other people disagree with you.

I understand the bias, but you are clearly wrong

 

[dwood16]

Here's the Torres hit:

Here's the Desjardins hit on Mayers earlier in the year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHgT_ccSTA4



The best view is at the 1:58 mark.

Desjardins hits Mayers squarely in the shoulder and Mayers' body goes flying. Mayers' head tilts side to side with the force of the impact, but if you watch carefully, his head really doesn't turn/rotate much. Mayers' nose/face stay pretty much in line with his chest. There is some turning of the head, but it is minor and follows along with his mid-section.

That's what happens when you have solid shoulder-shoulder contact. It's like being in a car crash. Your head may tilt side to side with the body impact, but it will typically remain facing in the same direction as the rest of the torso. Your head isn't going to violently rotate 90* to one side.

Contrast that with the Torres .gif.

Stoll's head turns sharply and it's the first thing to turn. Head/jaw/face rotates quickly to the left, then the rest of the body follows. If it was pure shoulder-shoulder, his face would have stayed mostly in line with his torso, and any head movement would have come as an after effect of the body collision.

Stoll's head turns first, THEN his skate lifts off the ice. Head goes first. It snaps 90* to the left in the same time and direction as Torres shoulder.

Can I have a link to this GIF? Please?

 

[Adam Jones]

I tweeted about that hit to @NHLPlayerSafety. blow up their inbox.

Still haven't seen the hit anywhere.

 

[WantonAbandon]

Still haven't seen the hit anywhere.

Check the sharks website

 

[SharksFan1]

There is 0% chance Torres targeted the head. That would basically be asking to be banned from the league.

A lot of people like to call him stupid, but no one is that stupid to willingly through away their carrier.

 

[Alwalys]

"rather than hit stoll through the core of his body, Torres takes a route that makes Stolls head the principal point of contact."

You are arguing semantics and every thing in this quote by Shanahan is absolutely 100% true. Are you saying that that Stoll did not take the brunt of the hit to his head? If so you are kidding yourself. Of course the head was the principal point of contact...

I am not arguing semantics, the rule states very clearly that principal point of contact is NOT the only standard. It has to be principal point AND targeted, i.e. deliberate. He basically admits it was not so he cannot speak to targeting at all; he has to ignore it to make his case.

Furthermore he mentions Stoll's head position not moving while completely ignoring that his upper body moved significantly -- which is what caused the blow to glance. So this fails 2 out of 3 standards set by the rules, making this a flat-out travesty.

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

Can I have a link to this GIF? Please?

I assume it's this gif

 

[WantonAbandon]

A lot of people like to call him stupid, but no one is that stupid to willingly through away their carrier.

Intentional or not Torres is responsible for his actions and he clearly hit Stoll in the dome

 

[do0glas]

I understand the bias, but you are clearly wrong

im not sure what bias youre talking about other than being blinded by raffi hate.

i said it was questionable that he took the brunt against the head. maybe he did get in the head. but i think torres went for the shoulder there. I personally think its body on body. Raffi is actually rather low for a head shot, dont you think?

there is no ground to stand on that you can for sure say raffi intended to target the head. nor do i think gliding into a hit at a reasonable amount of speed calls into anything, being wreckless.

shanny also violated the CBA by not giving a set amount of games, whatever suits the suits though.

 

[WantonAbandon]

I am not arguing semantics, the rule states very clearly that principal point of contact is NOT the only standard. It has to be principal point AND targeted, i.e. deliberate. He basically admits it was not so he cannot speak to targeting at all; he has to ignore it to make his case.

Furthermore he mentions Stoll's head position not moving while completely ignoring that his upper body moved significantly -- which is what caused the blow to glance. So this fails 2 out of 3 standards set by the rules, making this a flat-out travesty.

Well at least you agree the head was the principal point of contact. Shanahan said he chose a route that made the head a principal point of contact. Shanhan is saying Torres made a conscious decision and Torres chose poorly. The suspension does seem too severe.

 

[dwood16]

Also, did we ever get a video of the Penner Wingels hit?

 

[WantonAbandon]

im not sure what bias youre talking about other than being blinded by raffi hate.

i said it was questionable that he took the brunt against the head. maybe he did get in the head. but i think torres went for the shoulder there. I personally think its body on body. Raffi is actually rather low for a head shot, dont you think?

there is no ground to stand on that you can for sure say raffi intended to target the head. nor do i think gliding into a hit at a reasonable amount of speed calls into anything, being wreckless.

shanny also violated the CBA by not giving a set amount of games, whatever suits the suits though.

He absolutely took the brunt of the hit to the head. There is no way it was body on body.

 

[Alwalys]

Well at least you agree the head was the principal point of contact. Shanahan said he chose a route that made the head a principal point of contact. Shanhan is saying Torres made a conscious decision and Torres chose poorly.

I don't actually agree it is principal, but my case doesn't hinge on that. Shanahan is full of ****, and his route is nothing of the sort, BUT it still doesn't matter if the contact is incidental, as it was.

There's a reason Shanahan can't say he targeted the head -- he wasn't and the video proves it.

 

[do0glas]

He absolutely took the brunt of the hit to the head. There is no way it was body on body.

shanahan even says shoulder on shoulder and it glanced off.

just think about it. why did this hearing take so long? if DW didnt even have a case it wouldve taken an hour tops and the verdict wouldve come out.

the hit absolutely started out body on body. and honestly i cannot tell if his head is severely contacted by torres in that video.

your argument is essentially nothing btw. im done talking to you.

 

[WantonAbandon]

I don't actually agree it is principal, but my case doesn't hinge on that. Shanahan is full of ****, and his route is nothing of the sort, BUT it still doesn't matter if the contact is incidental, as it was.

There's a reason Shanahan can't say he targeted the head -- he wasn't and the video proves it.

You are denying the definition of the word principal now...

principal (ˈprɪnsɪp ə l) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

— adj
1. first in importance, rank, value, etc; chief

 

[lsx]

So basically because I have a different opinion then you I am deluded and it is invalid? Awesome way of thinking.

You are clearly incapable of thinking clearly on this subject. Your opinion is invalid. See how that works?

Torres has a reputation, he is more likely to get suspended for minor infractions. I think he's thrown worse hits than that, but anyone who thought that wasn't getting a suspension is freaking crazy. The NHL has set a very clear precedent and there was NO doubt in my mind he was gone for at least this series, we are lucky that's all it is frankly. My POINT is that the Sharks brought in a guy who they KNEW was likely to get suspended if he so much as blinked funny at another player, and guess what, he got suspended and made an already injured team much worse off.

I will say, that he has been very effective, and that is part of why this sucks so much. If he had been able to keep his nose clean, I was willing to give him a chance, but he blew it. What do you expect me to do? I said that if he screwed up again I want no part of him, and he screwed up again. Getting a 6 game suspension in the playoffs is doing a hell of a lot more harm than good, sorry, I don't know how you can see that any other way.



No ones gloating, I certainly would rather he kept his nose clean and didn't get suspended. But he did, like I expected he would. Being right about something doesn't mean I'm happy about it, I'm not. I think the suspension is excessive, but it is right in line with, knowing the NHL, what I expected (hell I expected more).

Also, calling people pathetic to me broaches on personal attack, so let's not start that yah?



Are you friends with him? Do you have inside information? You have no idea if that's true. I'm pretty sure most people here would have said there is no way the Sharks are bringing Raffi Torres in or Scott Hannan back either.

Absolutely my opinion as well.

The video explanation even pushed me over to the dirty hit camp, if we had that same hit happen to couture by someone like cooke, we'd be calling for an electric chair.

This is simply a very expected outcome to signing someone with arguably the worst reputation in the league as a intent to injure head hunting player.

 

[Alwalys]

You are denying the definition of the word principal now...

principal (ˈprɪnsɪp ə l) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

— adj
1. first in importance, rank, value, etc; chief

No, I'm denying that it was the principal point of contact. I think he hit several points of his body simultaneously. The head happens to be the most free to move so it moves the most but that doesn't mean ****.

 

[Alwalys]

The video explanation even pushed me over to the dirty hit camp, if we had that same hit happen to couture by someone like cooke, we'd be calling for an electric chair.

No we wouldn't. Most of the outcry for the very similar Penner hit was in context of the Torres hit. We expect hard, vicious hits in the playoffs. Or we should.

 

[do0glas]

If stuart makes that hit, we are high fiving each other.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

If stuart makes that hit, we are high fiving each other.

Yup. Good point. Some people can't get over what happened six years ago. Or "I don't want dirty players on my team" well good thing fans aren't listened to in regards to personnel.