Head-to-Head Domination Between Superstar Players?

[DitchMarner]

These stats are really jarring - almost hard to believe...


Head-to-head stats (13 games):

Connor McDavid: 9 goals, 18 assists, 27 points, +15, 19 EVP, 57 shots, 21:40 ATOI

Sidney Crosby: 3 goals, 4 assists, 7 points, -12, 5 EVP, 39 shots, 20:24 ATOI


One guy has triple the goals and almost quadruple the points. His plus/minus is also 27 points better.


What are some other examples of one superstar owning another head-to-head?

Click to read more...

 

[Idiot Stick]

are these for the whole game or when both are on the ice?

 

[DitchMarner]

are these for the whole game or when both are on the ice?

For whole games they've played in against each other. I'm not sure what the stats are isolated for when they share the ice, but from what I've seen, they seem to often match up against each other.

 

[blogofmike]

In 25 Gretzky vs. Lemieux games, Gretzky's teams were 17-7-1.

Gretzky: 15G, 45A, 60,PTS, +23
Lemieux: 11G, 27A, 38 PTS, -18

One of their last games is up here:


Their last head to head play is here:

 

[MadLuke]

are these for the whole game or when both are on the ice?

GF-GA
McDavid vs Crosby

From 16-18: 3-1
From 19-21: 0-2
From 22-24: 8-0

That 11 GF for 3 GA in favor of McDavid

 

[GMR]

Gretzky vs. Lemieux were the first names I thought of. And unlike McDavid/Crosby, Wayne/Mario's primes weren't that far apart simultaneously.

 

[VanIslander]

Hasek.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Never forget when lemieux dropped 5 on wayne. All gretzky could do was marvel

 

[VanIslander]

"HASEK robs him AGAIN!"



Earlier, during that regular season, the star goalie of Czechoslovakia (the Soviet team pre-Berlin Wall cold war) made himself known in the NHL, this 1994:

 

[VanIslander]

I ain't sure Lemieux was greater than Hasek.

They may be two of the top 5 talented ever players, but one was gimpy with luckily Scotty Bowman running two cups in Pittsburgh; the other playing with riff raff, not a HHOFer in sight until his 20+ year of pro hockey, in Detroit. After 3 Canada Cups, ... on to 4 Olympic teams (1998 most memorable), Hasek owned the late 1990's and every hockey player knows it.

But, unlike football, where having a great QB & coach pretty much means victory, .. hockey needs a team effort. Hasek could have zero or five cups and he still was as great as he was. Thankfully, like Bourque going to the stacked Avs, Hasek going to Detroit was chef's kiss.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

why are we posting endless Hasek videos (once again) without discussing the thread topic?

Read the first post. It will help.

 

[buffalowing88]

Hasek owned Lindros. Besides the penalty shot save in 98, the stats seem to support this.

Dominik Hašek vs. Eric Lindros: Head-to-Head Stats Comparison | Stathead.com

Compare Players: Check out the head-to-head stats of Dominik Hašek and Eric Lindros including their awards, honors, championships, playoff and regular season stats, and much more on Stathead.com

stathead.com

 

[MadLuke]

"HASEK robs him AGAIN!"

Is this from that game:

1991-92 Stanley Cup Final Game 4, Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Chicago Blackhawks Box Score: June 1, 1992 | Hockey-Reference.com

Get the latest box score updates on the Pittsburgh Penguins vs. Chicago Blackhawks game played on June 1, 1992 on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

A 6-5 Penguins win in which Lemieux scored 3 points then raised the literal Stanley Cup that night ?, not sure how much it can count has being dominated by anyone.

 

[VanIslander]

Yeah. Mario won his 2nd of three Harts that year.

Hasek went on to win 6 of 8 Vezina trophies and - after Mario's last Hart - Hasek took home back to back Hart trophies and Dom-inated internationally.

 

[The Panther]

Yeah. Mario won his 2nd of three Harts that year.

Hasek went on to win 6 of 8 Vezina trophies and - after Mario's last Hart - Hasek took home back to back Hart trophies and Dom-inated internationally.

Why are you posting about Hasek's career after Lemieux's retirement in a thread about players head to head??

 

[VanIslander]

Because they had repeated head to head encounters, including an EPIC one-on-one playoff rush.

Every superstar skater in the 1990's ran into the superstar goalie.

The Great One wasn't relegated to the bench here (but would be deemed not top-5 worthy weeks later in the Olympics because of 'analytics'. F'off! The sports bar i was watching the game in booed Crawford incessantly. Not because Canada lost. Because Gretzky didn't get a shot. ... *ouch* ... it still hurts...

 

[MadLuke]

Yeah. Mario won his 2nd of three Harts that year.

Are you sure

Lemieux Hart were in 88, 93 and 96, that final was in 1992.

Because they had repeated head to head encounters, including an EPIC one-on-one playoff rush.

Single game in 1992 (that Lemieux won), and one playoff series in 2001, that again Lemieux won ?

According to the nature of this thread, who dominated who in those encounters would you say ? At first glance, both player stats seem quite ok and balanced in those head to head, even if it seems like Lemieux won all the very few important of them.

 

[MadLuke]

Neely vs Roy famously back in the day 20 goals in 26 playoff games against those Canadian was quite something, the other way around with Gretzky that did not score well against him, for Gretzky standard.

 

[VanIslander]

Are you sure

Lemieux Hart were in 88, 93 and 96, that final was in 1992.

'92, '93... my university years blur together.

I have a thousand vivid memories. But the order of them? That's not easy.

I saw Vladimir Guerrero score in the Expos beating the Pittsburgh Pirates but i can't recall if that was my trip to Montreal before, during or after my grad school years.

Memories are nuggets. Think of your childhood. Surely you vividly recall multiple moments but not what happened before or after.

 

[VanIslander]

Neely vs Roy famously back in the day 20 goals in 26 playoff games against those Canadian was quite something, the other way around with Gretzky that did not score well against him, for Gretzky standard.

Yeah but Gretzky was known to own Roy in big moments:

 

[alko]

Crosby was 28 years old, when McDavid was drafted.

 

[blogofmike]

Crosby was 28 years old, when McDavid was drafted.

That's fair to account for. It looks like 2019 is the last of prime Crosby.

The ascendant McDavid has taken advantage of the relative decline, outscoring Sid 17-3 over the last three seasons (6 games), and is a +16 to Crosby's -12.

Their primes aren't miles away from each other, but they certainly don't line up all that closely.

 

[blogofmike]

Never forget when lemieux dropped 5 on wayne. All gretzky could do was marvel

Keenan sending Jon Casey to stop Lemieux was like someone sending Craig Ehlo to defend Michael Jordan, but even if you start the clock there with Lemieux's best showing, post-Kings Gretzky still outscored him head to head 10-8 after 4 wins with New York.

According to the nature of this thread, who dominated who in those encounters would you say ? At first glance, both player stats seem quite ok and balanced in those head to head, even if it seems like Lemieux won all the very few important of them.

Lemieux's stats aren't as great as you'd think, but Hasek is 5-6-0, .897, 3.13 in the regular season, and 3-5, .898, 2.38 in the playoffs. It seems like a clear advantage to 66.

Neely vs Roy famously back in the day 20 goals in 26 playoff games against those Canadian was quite something, the other way around with Gretzky that did not score well against him, for Gretzky standard.

Neely vs Roy is a good one.

Roy had a solid .909 save percentage in 24 playoff games, but he was .776 when the shooter was Cam Neely.

Gretzky had 39 points in 26 RS games, and 7 in 5 playoff games. Roy was .840 vs Gretzky shots in the RS and .853 in the playoffs. While he wasn't as much of a Roy-killer as Neely was, the 93 Finals were won when Gretzky was off the ice, as the Kings averaged less than 1 non-Gretzky goal per game.

 

[DitchMarner]

That's fair to account for. It looks like 2019 is the last of prime Crosby.

The ascendant McDavid has taken advantage of the relative decline, outscoring Sid 17-3 over the last three seasons (6 games), and is a +16 to Crosby's -12.

Their primes aren't miles away from each other, but they certainly don't line up all that closely.

I wonder how many other instances there are of a legend in his 30s really struggling with another conspicuous player.

For example, did someone like Sakic, Yzerman or Sundin (who aged very well and was about as good in his 30s as in his 20) really struggle against one of the next generation superstars head-to-head?

 

[MadLuke]

Yeah but Gretzky was known to own Roy in big moments:

Again, this way of talking do not seem to take into account who rose the Stanley Cup enough here.

Lemieux's stats aren't as great as you'd think

Maybe saying ok for Lemieux is implying greatness, but it was quite literal of being "ok"

When it mattered Lemieux had 3pts in 1992 and 7 pts in 7 games in 2001 (ppg in dpe playoff being ok even for Mario)

Gretzky had 39 points in 26 RS games, and 7 in 5 playoff games.

Points but not goal I think, at least I went with this:

Gretzky's goals against Hasek, Roy, Brodeur...

The main argument against Gretzky for many detractors seems to be that Gretzky would have a difficult time scoring against the elite goalies of today. So I thought we could post some of Gretzky's goals against the best goalies of the 90s and 2000s to see if there is enough evidence against this...

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