Maybe saying ok for Lemieux is implying greatness, but it was quite literal of being "ok"
When it mattered Lemieux had 3pts in 1992 and 7 pts in 7 games in 2001 (ppg in dpe playoff being ok even for Mario)
Points but not goal I think, at least I went with this:
Gretzky's goals against Hasek, Roy, Brodeur...
The main argument against Gretzky for many detractors seems to be that Gretzky would have a difficult time scoring against the elite goalies of today. So I thought we could post some of Gretzky's goals against the best goalies of the 90s and 2000s to see if there is enough evidence against this...forums.hfboards.com
Date | G | A | Pts | +/- | Shots |
01/11/1986* | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 |
02/24/1986 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 3 |
10/11/1986 | 2 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 2 |
11/08/1986 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 3 |
10/28/1987 | 0 | 1 | 1 | -2 | 3 |
03/09/1988 | 0 | 0 | 0 | -1 | 1 |
11/02/1989 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 1 |
03/15/1989 | 0 | 1 | 1 | -2 | 3 |
11/11/1989 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 2 |
03/07/1990 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 3 |
11/24/1990 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 2 |
03/10/1991 | 0 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 1 |
5 | 19 | 24 | 0 | 25 |
1. Um... Gretzky raised it a few more times than Roy.Again, this way of talking do not seem to take into account who rose the Stanley Cup enough here.
1. Um... Gretzky raised it a few more times than Roy.
2. What is your point?
Statement was:1. Um... Gretzky raised it a few more times than Roy.
2. What is your point?
Did YOU know Bourque was a pretty good defenseman?Did you guys know that Hasek was a pretty good goalie?
This one is a bit like Crosby vs. McDavid, though, in that Gretzky's' and Roenick's primes overlap by only one season, which is 1990-91. In that one season (3 games played) however, they each had only three points head-to-head.Jeremy Roenick had Wayne Gretzky's number in real life, not just in the movies.
Roenick: 24 GP, 16 G, 16 A, 32 P, +9
Gretzky: 24 GP, 3 G. 22 A. 25 P, -11
I wonder if Roenick being a more knees and elbows pumping, hockey sense is for nerds, sort of star would explain why. Gretzky was better at predicting players that make the hockey sense sort of plays, but a neil sheehy tripped him up by being out of position and therefore unpredictable?This one is a bit like Crosby vs. McDavid, though, in that Gretzky's' and Roenick's primes overlap by only one season, which is 1990-91. In that one season (3 games played) however, they each had only three points head-to-head.
I get that we'd expect post-prime Gretzky to still outscore Roenick a bit, so maybe it's a little surprising, but not much when one guy is almost entirely post-prime.
It's probably that Roenick spent most of that time on Chicago, one of the strongest defensive teams in the NHL, and therefore Chelios as well.I wonder if Roenick being a more knees and elbows pumping, hockey sense is for nerds, sort of star would explain why. Gretzky was better at predicting players that make the hockey sense sort of plays, but a neil sheehy tripped him up by being out of position and therefore unpredictable?
Yeah but Gretzky was known to own Roy in big moments:
Two giants of the era.Surprisingly, 90s Scott Stevens was able to go point for point with prime Mats Sundin.
Well that website I did not knew about make things quite easierSurprisingly, 90s Scott Stevens was able to go point for point with prime Mats Sundin.
Scott Stevens vs. Mats Sundin: Head-to-Head Stats Comparison | Stathead.com
Compare Players: Check out the head-to-head stats of Scott Stevens and Mats Sundin including their awards, honors, championships, playoff and regular season stats, and much more on Stathead.comstathead.com
Not sure if its domination, but Crosby has better stats than Ovi in their H2H games:
Crosby 31-59-90 in 69 GP.
Ovi 37-30-67 in 69 GP.
OV scored more goals but his linemates scored less.
That tracks.
"HASEK robs him AGAIN!"
Earlier, during that regular season, the star goalie of Czechoslovakia (the Soviet team pre-Berlin Wall cold war) made himself known in the NHL, this 1994:
It's not even mildly surprising.Surprisingly, 90s Scott Stevens was able to go point for point with prime Mats Sundin.
Scott Stevens vs. Mats Sundin: Head-to-Head Stats Comparison | Stathead.com
Compare Players: Check out the head-to-head stats of Scott Stevens and Mats Sundin including their awards, honors, championships, playoff and regular season stats, and much more on Stathead.comstathead.com
Carbonneau and Fedorov are two interesting cases.Over the decade from 82-83 to 91-92, Paul Coffey more than doubled Guy Carbonneau in points (993 to 491). But head-to-head, Carbonneau had the edge (27 GP, 26-25 in points).
Paul Coffey (1983-1992) vs. Guy Carbonneau (1983-1992): Head-to-Head Stats Comparison | Stathead.com
Compare Players: Check out the head-to-head stats of Paul Coffey (1983-1992) and Guy Carbonneau (1983-1992) including their awards, honors, championships, playoff and regular season stats, and much more on Stathead.comstathead.com
Sergei Fedorov got the better of Wayne Gretzky head to head (27 GP, 38-35 in points). Maybe not a huge surprise, considering that Fedorov only faced 90s Gretzky. But it is pretty cool that Fedorov beat both Gretzky and Lemieux head to head.
Sergei Fedorov vs Gretzky or Lemieux: 37 GP, 30 G, 28 A, 58 P, +22, 1.57 P/GP
I checked Eric Lindros vs Gretzky and Lemieux as well. And Lindros did outscore Gretzky head to head. But he got absolutely crushed by Lemieux in 10 regular season GP.
Eric Lindros - 10 GP, 4 G, 5 P, 7
Mario Lemieux - 10 GP, 14 G, 24 P, +5
Mario Lemieux vs. Eric Lindros: Head-to-Head Stats Comparison | Stathead.com
Compare Players: Check out the head-to-head stats of Mario Lemieux and Eric Lindros including their awards, honors, championships, playoff and regular season stats, and much more on Stathead.comstathead.com
But Lindros got the better of him in the 1997 playoffs.