Confirmed with Link: Head Coach Vacancy Pt IV — Rangers get permission to speak to Ruff

[Krams]

It will end up being Vigneault or Messier, and knowing Glen Sather, it will be the latter.

 

[nyranger61494]

I can't disagree but he has been sitting up in the box for two years with Sather, who was a pretty good coach back in his day. It's not like he's been playing golf in Hilton Head and is coming back.

Rangerboy posted this quote from Craig Custance article where he spoke to Gordie Clark earlier in the thread but it's worth copying:

Would Messier's coaching style fit with the Rangers' current personnel?

"I've never really talked to him about that. He liked our team last year," Clark said. "If you talk to him a lot, he talks a lot about the Oilers days. Our team didn't play like that last year. It was blocking shots. I think he saw it working. He saw it was that group of guys, I don't know if that group of guys could have played the game that maybe he talks about all the time. He thought the team was really good and fun to watch."

http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog/...w-york-rangers

People were complaining about Tortorella being stuck in pre-2005 lockout hockey. Some of these same people are championing Messier whose major qualification is winning a championship 20 years ago and is trying to relive his glory days from 30 years ago.

 

[Jersey Girl]

I'm preparing myself for him getting hired.

I just cannot do that for my own mental health. I'm going to hold onto the notion that Sather is not quite THAT incompetent as to make Messier the head coach.

 

[JanErixon20]

Rangerboy posted this quote from Craig Custance article where he spoke to Gordie Clark earlier in the thread but it's worth copying:


http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog/...w-york-rangers

People were complaining about Tortorella being stuck in pre-2005 lockout hockey. Some of these same people are championing Messier whose major qualification is winning a championship 20 years ago and is trying to relive his glory days from 30 years ago.

Messier probably would have loved/hated playing for Tortorella. He would have loved the ice time he gave to his top lines, but hated the style of play with the shot blocking and defense first. Messier liked an up-tempo style, where you spent more time in their zone then your own.

 

[JanErixon20]

I just cannot do that for my own mental health. I'm going to hold onto the notion that Sather is not quite THAT incompetent as to make Messier the head coach.

Who would you prefer? And why?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I just cannot do that for my own mental health. I'm going to hold onto the notion that Sather is not quite THAT incompetent as to make Messier the head coach.

Hah, the fact that you have to pretend Sather is not incompetent must give you a bit of a twitch.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I just cannot do that for my own mental health. I'm going to hold onto the notion that Sather is not quite THAT incompetent as to make Messier the head coach.

It's not a question of Sather being incompetent. It's more that he's smarter than everyone.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Who would you prefer? And why?

Someone who has coaching experience because I believe that is important.

 

[RangerBoy]

The Rangers hired an experienced and pro head coach in Torts. Sather experienced his only success with Torts as coach. The Rangers won 3 playoff series with John. Sather's teams won 2 in 9 years before Torts. Let him hire Messier. Its all on Sather.

 

[Jersey Girl]

The Rangers hired an experienced and pro head coach in Torts. Sather experienced his only success with Torts as coach. The Rangers won 3 playoff series with John. Sather's teams won 2 in 9 years before Torts. Let him hire Messier. Its all on Sather.

It's never all on Sather. Nothing is on Sather...he reports to nobody.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

The Rangers hired an experienced and pro head coach in Torts. Sather experienced his only success with Torts as coach. The Rangers won 3 playoff series with John. Sather's teams won 2 in 9 years before Torts. Let him hire Messier. Its all on Sather.

It doesn't seem to ever be on Sather. Dolan at least knows enough to know he knows nothing about hockey and Sather takes care of everything for him. If Sather hires Messier, the PR of the move will pull the wool over Dolan's eyes so he can't see what stupid hockey move it is.

 

[Jersey Girl]

It doesn't seem to ever be on Sather. Dolan at least knows enough to know he knows nothing about hockey and Sather takes care of every for him. If Sather hires Messier, the PR of the move will pull the wool over Dolan's eyes so he can't see what stupid hockey move it is.

Thank you for articulating that much better than I did!

 

[I Am Chariot]

Dolan loved Isiah ... He will embrace Messier as coach.

But will the players?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

If this team didnt have Lundqvist, I would almost welcome a Messier hire, the subsequent disaster, the (hopefully, but unlikely) death knell to the good ol' boy Oilers' network here in NYC.

But the fact the organization is wasting a HOF goalies career is a really sad thing.

 

[Inferno]

Seriously.

I dont get how one can rationalize that anyone, no matter how great of a "born leader" or legend of the game or savior of a particular franchise can become a top level, professional league coach without having SOME experience at SOME level without SOME sort of an adjustment period.

The first 100+ days (not even games) of Messiers coaching experience here is going to be all brandy-new, and hes going to be learning on the job, regardless of how awesome some may HOPE he will be. I've got some real questions here if he is hired:

What kind of camp is he going to run?
What is he going to do about all of his off-ice commitments?
What assistant coaches is HE going to recommend?
How is he going to communicate to the team, through the captain? As an authoritative figure Autocratic? Democratic?
Whats his policy regarding curfews?
What kind of practices is he going to run?
What are his feelings on game day skates and optionals?
How is he going to handle off-days and rest?
What are his plans for managing goaltenders?
etc., etc., ETC., ETC., ETC.


All of this is unknown, because he's NEVER BEEN A COACH!!!

What does that mean for the Rangers and the fans? They'll all be his guinea pigs to see what its like to be an NHL coach. Its really no different then one of us running an NHL Simulation on XBOX. He may have some idea of what being a coach is like (any of us who have played can) but you dont know what it will be like and how youll react until you actually try it. Spare me the pie-in-the-sky fantasies. This isnt the time for Messier to get his feet wet at the Rangers expense.

Lets think about this for a second. Sather fires Torts and claims that there are a lot of reasons, but namely because the CUP is the ultimate goal, and that's where this team needs to be. (his words) This is a coach who already won a cup, is the winningest american born coach who just lead the team to back to back playoff appearances into the second round. So whats the answer to get to the next level? Bring in someone whos nevers coached a single professional hockey game in his life. OF COURSE! That has to be the answer! It's so clear as day! And to top it off - lets make it one of the best players who's ever played the game! One that thinks the game like .0000000001% of the rest of the world! GENIUS!

Besides, I dont know why someone who is a living legend, who has reached the top of Mt. Olympus and essentially slayed Goliath with the whole world watching on the biggest stage in sports,would want to jeopardize that reputation by taking on a challenge that is destined for failure. Its all silly to me and it will not happen. (better not happen)

there needs to be a high five smiley...i'd give ya one...oh wait...

 

[JanErixon20]

Someone who has coaching experience because I believe that is important.

So Ed Olczyk would be someone you'd consider over a guy like Messier? How about Gretzky?

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

So Ed Olczyk would be someone you'd consider over a guy like Messier? How about Gretzky?

I don't think it's a situation where it's considering Olczyk over Messier. It's more of an issue that there's a body of work to evaluate Olczyk off of and there isn't for Messier.

To me Gretzky's body of work tells me there's no reason to explore him any further.

 

[Jersey Girl]

So Ed Olczyk would be someone you'd consider over a guy like Messier? How about Gretzky?

So you're making the argument that never having coached is better than a poor coaching record. Got it.

Regardless, for all the points HockeyBasedNYC so eloquently stated, hiring Messier would be madness. Please read his post...I could not have said it better myself.

 

[Thirty One]

Sather experienced his only success with Torts as coach.

Tom Renney says "say whaaa...?"

 

[n_a_c]

Dave Tippet

It sounds like Dave Tippet doesn't want to re-sign with Phoenix unless ownership issues are resolved. They won't be before July 1 when his contract expires. Don Maloney has denied requests from unnamed teams to interview Tippet.

His regular season record as a head coach is stellar. Unfortunately his record in the post season is not so stellar, although he did face some hot teams in the first round.

Any opinions on him? Some people claim he hasn't developed young offensive players, and that his PP was never great. But I still like him better than all of the other coaches I've read about.

 

[JanErixon20]

So you're making the argument that never having coached is better than a poor coaching record. Got it.

Regardless, for all the points HockeyBasedNYC so eloquently stated, hiring Messier would be madness. Please read his post...I could not have said it better myself.

If you meant SingnBluesOnBroadway, his post was more anti-Sather/Dolan. I'll look for the other post.

And would I rather have a coach like Messier with no experience over a bad coach with a bad track record? Yes. I was just playing devils advocate with you. Saying you want a "coach with experience" doesn't really mean much.

 

[JanErixon20]

I don't think it's a situation where it's considering Olczyk over Messier. It's more of an issue that there's a body of work to evaluate Olczyk off of and there isn't for Messier.

To me Gretzky's body of work tells me there's no reason to explore him any further.

I agree, was just playing off the comment of, "hiring a coach with experience." Slow day at work.

 

[RangerBoy]

Dolan loves Isiah. Hank Ratner finally convinced Dolan about Zeke was bad for business. Dolan hasn't tried to bring Isiah back since the 2010 offer as consultant was overruled by David Stern. Just look at the remaining coaches. All of them aren't in their first coaching jobs. Three of them have coached at least 3 NHL teams. The other was an assistant coach in the NHL and AHL. Head coach in the AHL.

 

[Jersey Girl]

If you meant SingnBluesOnBroadway, his post was more anti-Sather/Dolan. I'll look for the other post.

And would I rather have a coach like Messier with no experience over a bad coach with a bad track record? Yes. I was just playing devils advocate with you. Saying you want a "coach with experience" doesn't really mean much.

Nope. I really did mean HockeyBasedNYC's post.

Hopefully our options are more than a coach with a bad track record and Messier.

 

[n_a_c]

I don't know if this was posted. Article on Dave Tippet from yesterday:

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coy...njoys-leap-of-faith-he-took-to-lift-team.html

His comments sound like a player who wants to test free agency. Sather said he wanted a head coach by the end of June... I don't think that Sather would specifically rule out Tippet based on wanting a coach before the draft or an arbitrary deadline. But Sather might already not want Tippet – either because of his friendship with Don Maloney, or some other reason.