Hawks of Yesteryear Part II - Madden AHL 17

[Blackhawkswincup]

Not Q's fault that Stanley gave him away and bungled the entire offseason

My god just thinking about that awful trade and how Hawks screwed over Oduya should anger ever Hawk fan

 

[ChiGuySez]

Not Q's fault that Stanley gave him away

No endorsement by Q. Q loves his vets, even if they cant skate or play. When Q and Bowman went to scout Johns late in the season, Q just said Johns was ok.

Well Q, take your deadbeat vets and stick it.

 

[CallMeShaft]

Shaw must've made an agreement with Bowman that he'd sabotage his Habs career by taking needless penalties, forcing them to trade him back to Chicago with Montreal picking up half his cap hit.

Pure genius.

 

[BobbyJet]

Former Hawks performances

PA Parenteau with a goal in his Devils debut
Brandon Saad had an assist
Nick Leddy with a goal
Brandon Pirri with a goal + assist
Kevin Hayes with an assist
Andrew Shaw with a goal + match penalty at end of game (intentional slewfoot) so a suspension seems assured
Stephen Johns has a goal for Stars
Antti Niemi has 20 saves on 22 shots thus far

Watched a period or so of Carolina last night. TT, BB, Nordstrom, Dahlbeck and Stalberg all playing for Canes. 29 and 25 re-united on 4th line there and looked pretty good. BB was not falling all over himself.

 

[BobbyJet]

Shaw must've made an agreement with Bowman that he'd sabotage his Habs career by taking needless penalties, forcing them to trade him back to Chicago with Montreal picking up half his cap hit.

Pure genius.

I didn't see the game but Shaw scored the insurance (4th) goal and waited until the game was coming to an end before the shenanigans. With his 2 agitators both scoring goals on opening night I doubt the coach will be too concerned.

 

[Hawkaholic]

No endorsement by Q. Q loves his vets, even if they cant skate or play. When Q and Bowman went to scout Johns late in the season, Q just said Johns was ok.

Well Q, take your deadbeat vets and stick it.

Pretty sure Q saw him play in the AHL playoffs and thought he could really help the team in our playoffs, but then he was injured the very next game.

Johns didn't even make the Stars to begin last year, so.

 

[Hawkscap]

Johns didn't even make the Stars to begin last year, so.

Because they had 7 D men on one way contracts and Johns was on a 2 way. It was a numbers game.

 

[JaegerDice]

Because they had 7 D men on one way contracts and Johns was on a 2 way. It was a numbers game.

When he did make the team, he was a heavily sheltered #6D through the playoffs. Interested to see if he gets more responsibility moving forward.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Not Q's fault that Stanley gave him away and bungled the entire offseason

My god just thinking about that awful trade and how Hawks screwed over Oduya should anger ever Hawk fan

Never Q's fault.

 

[BK]

Never Q's fault.

I really don't understand how some posters on these boards cannot split blame. These posters are ignorant to think that issues (for the most part) do not have multiple guilty parties. People who think Stan, Q, and players is always acting on their own are honestly just ignorant when it comes to how teams opperate.

Example. Drafting. Stan has drafted well for the most part but he does not deserve all of the credit. The scouting team deserves credit. Q and the coaching staff give their input that so they deserve credit as well.

Another subject: Not sure who said it but the comment about Stan being an idiot for signing Kane and Toews to deals that are the same length. They turned pro the same year so they rookie deals started at the same time, he then signed them to identical deals that they both out performed, and now they are on deals that are identical again. These deals are below market value for what they could have got on the open market. Also if you let them walk you ruin this team.

People keep bringing up Steve Y and what he has done in Tampa but if you look at Stamkos he got what he is worth. He is not a great playoff performer and does not score at the same rate as Kane anymore. The Stamkos of the past two years is Toews scoring with no where close as much defense. The Hedman deal is like a great deal but not as good as Duncan Keiths. Kucherov is a good deal now but he is arbitration eligible once the deal is done, which is a huge risk if he continues to get better like he has. Kucherov in arbitration will be a nightmare situation for Tampa Bay. The Kilorn deal has a good chance of turning into a Bickell type deal once he starts to wear down.

 

[Hawkscap]

Example. Drafting. Stan has drafted well for the most part but he does not deserve all of the credit. The scouting team deserves credit. Q and the coaching staff give their input that so they deserve credit as well.

From 2012-2015 , the Hawks have drafted 1 player who has played more than 10 NHL Games

 

[BobbyJet]

Because they had 7 D men on one way contracts and Johns was on a 2 way. It was a numbers game.

Exactly. The white knight can't come to the rescue this time around.... didn't do his homework before commenting.

Hawks' defense is much better with Forsling/Kempny/Campbell on the roster this season, but they could certainly use the physicality that a Johns would bring.

 

[JaegerDice]

Drafting is nothung without intelligent development and a willingness to integrate them into the lineup ahead of veterans past their due date or favorite 'boys'.

That said, novody should be happy with the #goodhockeymen scouting staff. Taking Schmaltz over Fabbri was the final straw. Im not sure if thee were key changes or merely a new mandate, but some of the picks this last draft, like Debrincat, were far more savvy.

 

[BK]

From 2012-2015 , the Hawks have drafted 1 player who has played more than 10 NHL Games

You know how development works right?

After this year they will have 4-5 players who will have over 10 games.

Unless you are a top pick or an anomaly it takes 2-4 years to make it to the NHL, this is not the NBA or NFL. The straight jump to the NHL does not happen (similar to baseball)>

You add in the 2011 draft and the Hawks will have 10-11 players who are full time in the NHL.

2-3 players per draft making it to the NHL and playing is a good drafting record.

 

[BK]

Drafting is nothung without intelligent development and a willingness to integrate them into the lineup ahead of veterans past their due date or favorite 'boys'.

That said, novody should be happy with the #goodhockeymen scouting staff. Taking Schmaltz over Fabbri was the final straw. Im not sure if thee were key changes or merely a new mandate, but some of the picks this last draft, like Debrincat, were far more savvy.

You talk about Fabbri like he is this great player. He is a decent NHL player with potential. Schmaltz has just as much potential (or more) than Fabbri. There is literally nothing other than Fabbri being in the NHL sooner that is a huge indicator that he will be better than Schmaltz. You keep harping on this but a few buddies who played at UND (they are older) all say he is the real deal and should succeed in the NHL.

 

[JaegerDice]

He also scored more points in a much tougher league at the junior level.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Because they had 7 D men on one way contracts and Johns was on a 2 way. It was a numbers game.

If he was good enough, the Stars would have made room for him. Much like Forsling and us this year.

 

[BK]

He also scored more points in a much tougher league at the junior level.

Do you need me to list players that have done that and then turned to nothing?

UND plays in the the best college hockey conference in the country. Top level college hockey is on par with the CHL leagues. Dismissing US college hockey leagues as a lesser quality is funny to me (and very Canadian of you).

 

[Blue Liner]

He also scored more points in a much tougher league at the junior level.

Offense is tougher to come by in the USHL than the OHL. It's one of the criticisms of USHL hockey is that it's more defensive and boring, whereas the OHL is way more wide open and offensive. Especially since the CHL import ban on goaltenders and all those goaltenders going to the USHL now who want to come overseas that has shifted even more so.

You also really need to get off the whole "good hockey men" nonsense. The Hawks have some younger/younger-minded scouts on their staff. It's not a bunch of crusty 70 year olds who still think they need to fax their hand-written reports in the next day. Good grief. It's also odd how Schmaltz over Fabbri is some "final straw". Why that, of all things? Your Fabbri love and subsequent Schmaltz dislike is almost BWC-like in nature in how particular you are about it. Not an attack here, just kinda..odd to me all around. Maybe that's just me and it's my own problem.

As for the draft comments elsewhere, using 2012-2015 as a barometer is rather arbitrary. It's leaving out a 2011 draft that has produced quite well and is including 2014 and 2015 which are very recent and you aren't expecting a lot of instant NHL production that soon, realistically. How many players total from 2014 and 2015 are regular NHL'ers or played a significant amount of NHL games already? I am going to guess off the top of my head not very many, especially outside for the first couple/few picks in the 1st Round. That's a really skewed time frame to make an argument on.

 

[David Castillo]

If he was good enough, the Stars would have made room for him. Much like Forsling and us this year.

The Stars made room for him as soon as they had room because he was tearing it up in the AHL. He immediately took Jason Demers' spot on Johnny Oduya's left after a handful of games, staying there even after Demers came back. His goal last night was the result of a beautiful rush up ice before pinching for the win. And last season he only started in the offensive zone at a 47% rate.

I'm not here to rub it in as a Stars fan. I think Bowman appears to have a pretty good handle on his organization given how often the team SHOULD look depleted, and yet rarely does with new faces filling in old roles more efficiently than other teams.

But Stephen Johns has been great for the Stars, and is very clearly part of Dallas' future top four (having already started brilliantly last night).

 

[Hawkaholic]

The Stars made room for him as soon as they had room because he was tearing it up in the AHL. He immediately took Jason Demers' spot on Johnny Oduya's left after a handful of games, staying there even after Demers came back. His goal last night was the result of a beautiful rush up ice before pinching for the win. And last season he only started in the offensive zone at a 47% rate.

I'm not here to rub it in as a Stars fan. I think Bowman appears to have a pretty good handle on his organization given how often the team SHOULD look depleted, and yet rarely does with new faces filling in old roles more efficiently than other teams.

But Stephen Johns has been great for the Stars, and is very clearly part of Dallas' future top four (having already started brilliantly last night).

After half a season in the AHL.

 

[hockeydoug]

You know how development works right?

After this year they will have 4-5 players who will have over 10 games.

Unless you are a top pick or an anomaly it takes 2-4 years to make it to the NHL, this is not the NBA or NFL. The straight jump to the NHL does not happen (similar to baseball)>

You add in the 2011 draft and the Hawks will have 10-11 players who are full time in the NHL.

2-3 players per draft making it to the NHL and playing is a good drafting record.

Just to add on:

Only 4 picks in the top 50 overall from those years too, and 3 of those 4 are currently on an NHL roster. 10 or 11 are still in NCAA programs if I'm not mistaken too. A handful still have overseas eligibility too.

I don't see a problem, it will take a couple more years to evaluate.

 

[David Castillo]

After half a season in the AHL.

Wait....you mean prospects sometimes spend time in the AHL?!

 

[Blue Liner]

After half a season in the AHL.

Who cares? He's there now doing well. What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Blue Liner]

Just to add on:

Only 4 picks in the top 50 overall from those years too, and 3 of those 4 are currently on an NHL roster. 10 or 11 are still in NCAA programs if I'm not mistaken too. A handful still have overseas eligibility too.

I don't see a problem, it will take a couple more years to evaluate.

Exactly this.