Has the time come to name a Captain?

[Kev22]

Would it be too much to ask to stop this ruse that Dubinsky is not the Captain of this team? He just absolutely proves it every night. This is just another example of how inept this franchise is. Frankly, it gets old after a while. Watch their performance, they are a rudderless ship.

 

[db2011]

Would it be too much to ask to stop this ruse that Dubinsky is not the Captain of this team? He just absolutely proves it every night. This is just another example of how inept this franchise is. Frankly, it gets old after a while. Watch their performance, they are a rudderless ship.

Seconded, except for the part about the ineptness of the franchise, which has never been less true than it is today.

 

[Robert]

Would it be too much to ask to stop this ruse that Dubinsky is not the Captain of this team? He just absolutely proves it every night. This is just another example of how inept this franchise is. Frankly, it gets old after a while. Watch their performance, they are a rudderless ship.

It's frustrating but if one looks at SL when Davidson got there it took years before they were good... We might be in this for the long haul before the Jackets are consistent winners...

 

[JKinCLE]

It's frustrating but if one looks at SL when Davidson got there it took years before they were good... We might be in this for the long haul before the Jackets are consistent winners...

agreed. Just last year we were beginning our rebuild, or "reshape" or whatever XGMSH called it. A remarkable 25 game stretch made us think we had arrived. The foundation is definitely looking strong, we are forming our identity (even though we dont show it every game). We may be a bubble team again this year assuming all goes well, but I also think it may take a year or two until we are on par with the Pens and Bruins in the East.

Since this is the captain thread... Dubi needs the C already. I do fear they are saving it for Horton though, as someone mentioned. I can't think of a guy I would rather see receiving the cup than Dubi.

 

[Crede777]

Also, the Jackets remain the youngest team in the league.

 

[db2011]

agreed. Just last year we were beginning our rebuild, or "reshape" or whatever XGMSH called it. A remarkable 25 game stretch made us think we had arrived. The foundation is definitely looking strong, we are forming our identity (even though we dont show it every game). We may be a bubble team again this year assuming all goes well, but I also think it may take a year or two until we are on par with the Pens and Bruins in the East.

Since this is the captain thread... Dubi needs the C already. I do fear they are saving it for Horton though, as someone mentioned. I can't think of a guy I would rather see receiving the cup than Dubi.

I don't really buy the "saving it up for" player x, be it Horton, Murray or whoever. I mean, I really hope that's not the case because that's a horrible idea- it neglects the team presently.

At this point I think the answer to the OP is yes, the time has come to name a captain. I think the team would benefit from having a captain named, given the situation. So I wouldn't be down with saving it for someone.

 

[db2011]

Also, the Jackets remain the youngest team in the league.

Are they really the absolute youngest? That puts some perspective on things.

 

[Crede777]

Are they really the absolute youngest? That puts some perspective on things.

Right now we're around 4th youngest. To start the season we were tied with Buffalo but then they moved Vanek.

 

[EdwardG]

I'm probably showing my ignorance of hockey here, but is what we see out of the Blue Jackets pretty typical of other teams? Letestu- looked good last year, now invisible. Nikitin- was it last year or year before when many he was our best D guy to sitting in the press box. Prout- last year one of best D guys to sitting in press box. We could go through another half-dozen guys like this. It's not like these guys just turned 35, they should be up and coming or in the prime of their careers.

Umberger and Wiz, I can write them off to par-for-the-course, overpaid, bad Howson signings that we have to live with for years.

 

[major major]

I don't really buy the "saving it up for" player x, be it Horton, Murray or whoever. I mean, I really hope that's not the case because that's a horrible idea- it neglects the team presently.

At this point I think the answer to the OP is yes, the time has come to name a captain. I think the team would benefit from having a captain named, given the situation. So I wouldn't be down with saving it for someone.

There's a widespread belief in hockey circles that the captaincy is primarily a thing for the fans. The implication here would be that if the brass names a captain it will be to placate us fans and not because they think Dubi needs a C to lead.

I would ask you to defend your assertion, but the annoying thing about this thread is that we on this board are not qualified to speak about what goes on in the locker room or in player to player communication more generally. So don't bother.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I'm probably showing my ignorance of hockey here, but is what we see out of the Blue Jackets pretty typical of other teams? Letestu- looked good last year, now invisible. Nikitin- was it last year or year before when many he was our best D guy to sitting in the press box. Prout- last year one of best D guys to sitting in press box. We could go through another half-dozen guys like this. It's not like these guys just turned 35, they should be up and coming or in the prime of their careers.

Umberger and Wiz, I can write them off to par-for-the-course, overpaid, bad Howson signings that we have to live with for years.

When Umberger was re-signed, he'd put up 94 goals and 198 points in the preceding four years. Wisniewski's previous three years saw him put up 105 points in 192 games. Let's not act like these were unproven guys who were signed to huge contracts despite there being no track record that they were actual NHL players.

Don't forget that it was a short period of time ago that the public wanted the C taken from Nash and given to Umberger.

 

[major major]

I'm probably showing my ignorance of hockey here, but is what we see out of the Blue Jackets pretty typical of other teams? Letestu- looked good last year, now invisible. Nikitin- was it last year or year before when many he was our best D guy to sitting in the press box. Prout- last year one of best D guys to sitting in press box. We could go through another half-dozen guys like this. It's not like these guys just turned 35, they should be up and coming or in the prime of their careers.

Umberger and Wiz, I can write them off to par-for-the-course, overpaid, bad Howson signings that we have to live with for years.

Actually I think all of the players you cited - Letestu, Nikitin, Prout, and yes Umberger and Wiz too, are typical around the league. I've been a fan of a lot of teams (though my main team has been Columbus since year 1) and you see the same patterns team to team. If you think something is peculiar to Columbus, look on another team's boards. Bizarre coaching moves? Overpaid players? Very inconsistent players? Mistake prone d-men? You'll find it everywhere.

 

[RogerSterling]

Seconded, except for the part about the ineptness of the franchise, which has never been less true than it is today.

Your comment about ineptness being "...less true than it is today" must be relative because the franchise is currently in last place in the worst division in the NHL. Just because there seems to be a plan this time around doesn't mean the franchise has its act together.

 

[db2011]

There's a widespread belief in hockey circles that the captaincy is primarily a thing for the fans. The implication here would be that if the brass names a captain it will be to placate us fans and not because they think Dubi needs a C to lead.

I would ask you to defend your assertion, but the annoying thing about this thread is that we on this board are not qualified to speak about what goes on in the locker room or in player to player communication more generally. So don't bother.

How true do you suppose that is, that the captaincy is only a thing for the fans? If it's very true, then this whole thread is hollow. I don't know much about hockey circles, but I find the sentiment that the captaincy is really just this thing that players and teams barely register is a bit hard to believe.

My assertion stems from a point of view that the captaincy does mean something to players and teams and not just to fans. And, although the LOFT theme has been raised on these boards, so has the "lacks an identity" theme. To me, these guys aren't playing to their abilities. Last year's finish was an outlier (there you go, stat guy) but so is this year's start, if you ask me. There are a lot of guys out, we find ourselves waiting on the big free-agent signing to show up, and we're losing games we shouldn't. The team feels unsettled, and I feel like naming a captain would be a step towards squaring away some things. I don't really understand why they haven't named a captain at this point.

 

[db2011]

Your comment about ineptness being "...less true than it is today" must be relative because the franchise is currently in last place in the worst division in the NHL. Just because there seems to be a plan this time around doesn't mean the franchise has its act together.

Relative to what? It's not relative. It doesn't make sense to imply this continuum from Kekalainen to MacLean; all of the personnel have changed over at least once, including the owner.

Early in this season the team if performing poorly, which reflects on the franchise but isn't a surrogate for the franchise. As I see it, we have several promising young players on the NHL roster and our prospect pool is better than it's ever been. There are now several competent people in charge who seem to be on the same page and not one guy on an island, and ownership seems willing to trust in the process. Mike Priest has been sidelined, that can only mean good things.

So yeah, wear out your "last place in the worst division" line 17 games in. There have been dark, dark days with this franchise and they weren't that long ago. Would you rather be Buffalo? Or Philly? I appreciate your high standards, but if you thought last year's finish would smoothly roll over into this season, that's silly.

 

[RogerSterling]

Relative to what? It's not relative. It doesn't make sense to imply this continuum from Kekalainen to MacLean; all of the personnel have changed over at least once, including the owner.

Early in this season the team if performing poorly, which reflects on the franchise but isn't a surrogate for the franchise. As I see it, we have several promising young players on the NHL roster and our prospect pool is better than it's ever been. There are now several competent people in charge who seem to be on the same page and not one guy on an island, and ownership seems willing to trust in the process. Mike Priest has been sidelined, that can only mean good things.

So yeah, wear out your "last place in the worst division" line 17 games in. There have been dark, dark days with this franchise and they weren't that long ago. Would you rather be Buffalo? Or Philly? I appreciate your high standards, but if you thought last year's finish would smoothly roll over into this season, that's silly.

I'm assuming you're talking about relative to how the franchise was run in the past. I'd rather talk about how this franchise is run relative to the best run franchises in the league.

I never said this franchise is or is not well run, and I think it is way too early to proclaim either one of those true or false. I pointed out that just because JD and JK have a plan and are executing that plan doesn't mean the plan will work out. It currently isn't working out, yet you're convinced it will. That's fine for you, but I prefer skepticism until they've proven something. This group has not proven to be a winning group - yet. I agree with a lot of the moves the guys in charge of the franchise are making, but again, that means next to nothing if there isn't improvement in the standings. I won't blame them for Gaborik not panning out so far as there was no reason to believe he couldn't be a 30+ goalscorer again instead of the 20+ guy he looks like so far. Horton was a great signing, although he's a second line winger on a good team. We'll see what happens with the prospects.

And the line - I'll keep repeating it until the team pulls it together and proves they're not the worst in the division. Right now it is statistically unlikely that this team will make the playoffs this season - something sorely needed for this franchise. Attendance is down, again, and the games I have attended (aside from the home opener and the Penguins game) have had crowd sizes bordering on comical. Would I rather be Buffalo? No, of course not. Would I rather be Philly? Maybe. I have no reason to believe they're any better or worse run than the Jackets right now. Their roster isn't any worse than this one. I guess for the guys around here who cream themselves over prospect potential the Jackets are better, but I've seen teams with great prospects produce a bunch of busts before.

And about the team this season - I didn't expect the team to do well, and I expected them to miss the playoffs again, despite the end to last season. I didn't think Bobrovsky would be able to keep up his Vezina form (I also don't think he'll ever be in the Vezina conversation again, and was last year due entirely a hot streak during a shortened season) and the team, even when healthy, isn't better than the Penguins, Rangers, and Capitals. That leaves them on some level with the Flyers, Islanders, Devils, and Canes.

Anyway, here's to hoping most of those prospects pan out over the next several years, because if they don't then it's looking like more of the same in Columbus.

 

[EspenK]

I'm assuming you're talking about relative to how the franchise was run in the past. I'd rather talk about how this franchise is run relative to the best run franchises in the league.

I never said this franchise is or is not well run, and I think it is way too early to proclaim either one of those true or false. I pointed out that just because JD and JK have a plan and are executing that plan doesn't mean the plan will work out. It currently isn't working out, yet you're convinced it will. That's fine for you, but I prefer skepticism until they've proven something. This group has not proven to be a winning group - yet. I agree with a lot of the moves the guys in charge of the franchise are making, but again, that means next to nothing if there isn't improvement in the standings. I won't blame them for Gaborik not panning out so far as there was no reason to believe he couldn't be a 30+ goalscorer again instead of the 20+ guy he looks like so far. Horton was a great signing, although he's a second line winger on a good team. We'll see what happens with the prospects.

And the line - I'll keep repeating it until the team pulls it together and proves they're not the worst in the division. Right now it is statistically unlikely that this team will make the playoffs this season - something sorely needed for this franchise. Attendance is down, again, and the games I have attended (aside from the home opener and the Penguins game) have had crowd sizes bordering on comical. Would I rather be Buffalo? No, of course not. Would I rather be Philly? Maybe. I have no reason to believe they're any better or worse run than the Jackets right now. Their roster isn't any worse than this one. I guess for the guys around here who cream themselves over prospect potential the Jackets are better, but I've seen teams with great prospects produce a bunch of busts before.

And about the team this season - I didn't expect the team to do well, and I expected them to miss the playoffs again, despite the end to last season. I didn't think Bobrovsky would be able to keep up his Vezina form (I also don't think he'll ever be in the Vezina conversation again, and was last year due entirely a hot streak during a shortened season) and the team, even when healthy, isn't better than the Penguins, Rangers, and Capitals. That leaves them on some level with the Flyers, Islanders, Devils, and Canes.

Anyway, here's to hoping most of those prospects pan out over the next several years, because if they don't then it's looking like more of the same in Columbus.

I too am surprised and disappointed that trading for Gaborik and signing Horton, who has yet to play, hasn't produced a Phoenix (the mythical one not the Coyotes)-like rise to a serious contender for the Cup. Another 4 or 5 games and I'm ready to switch allegiance to Colorado or Anaheim who definitely know how to turn around a team quickly. Colorado did it in what 3 years of picking Duchene, Landeskog and MacKinnon, re-incarnating Varlamov as the second coming of their coach and signing Nick Holden as a free agent. Anaheim despite having Getzlaff & Perry managed to suck last year thereby setting the stage for this year's meteoric rise from obscurity. Yep, JD & JK definitely are on the wrong track.

 

[blahblah]

I'll make this simple. This isn't the military in the locker room where a clear chain of command needs to exist. That chain is the coaching staff.

Leaders lead. They don't need a C or an A for validation.

It appears that Dubinsky is leading right now. He didn't need a C to do that.

We could go down the rabbit hole in relations to players coming into a strong leadership groups, so there are times in which you might choose not to lead. But at that point, you can still lead by example.

But the basic premise is the same. We don't need a C for a strong leadership group. Now you can have opposing views and clicks, but those can exist even with someone having the C.

If we are waiting for Horton to join the group and see what happens, I'm not opposed to that.

I stand by what I hinted to at the beginning. This is given far more consideration by the fans than the players. Right now they are trying to win games and I doubt many of they are saying "Damn, if we had a captain we would be in a playoff spot right now.".

 

[Samkow]

Don't forget that it was a short period of time ago that the public wanted the C taken from Nash and given to Umberger.

And everybody wanted Johnson a year ago. Now everybody wants Dubinsky. Next year, we'll probably want somebody else.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

And everybody wanted Johnson a year ago. Now everybody wants Duby.

"Too... many... jokes. Must...remember...not...in...middle...school."

 

[CBJx614]

For those of you that don't play hockey. The only thing a captain is technically for is to have a designated player to talk to the refs. And if the C isn't on the ice that's what the A's are for. That's it. Thats a emotional player such as dubinsky isn't the best choice for captain and someone like Johnson or Murray would make a better captain as they seem to be more even headed, are both young, and have good leadership qualities.

 

[db2011]

I'm assuming you're talking about relative to how the franchise was run in the past. I'd rather talk about how this franchise is run relative to the best run franchises in the league.

I'm talking about relative to how it's been run, although comparing it to how other franchises are run is a good idea. When I think of the CBJ franchise, the NHL roster is only part of the equation. To me the top of the organization seems healthier than it's ever been. The GM hasn't even been here a year, so the franchise as we now know it less than a year old. It's all speculation, but it's not unreasonable to imagine comparing this franchise to the best-run franchises in the not-too-distant future and come away thinking it's not a one-sided comparison.

If you want to base an analysis of the the strength of a franchise purely on NHL rosters and the standings, I guess it's not unreasonable but you may come away with false positives, so to speak. By your own reckoning, this team is not as good as the Rangers; but I'd rather be this team than the Rangers. Sather? Dolan?? There's widespread belief in NY that the priority is to make the playoffs, and the Cup would be gravy- which means they'll never tear down for a full rebuild when they need it. If that's really true, that to me isn't a well-run franchise.

Or the Coyotes, a team I have a soft spot for, have 28 points to our 13, but the woes of that franchise are well known.

I never said this franchise is or is not well run, and I think it is way too early to proclaim either one of those true or false. I pointed out that just because JD and JK have a plan and are executing that plan doesn't mean the plan will work out. It currently isn't working out, yet you're convinced it will. That's fine for you, but I prefer skepticism until they've proven something. This group has not proven to be a winning group - yet. I agree with a lot of the moves the guys in charge of the franchise are making, but again, that means next to nothing if there isn't improvement in the standings. I won't blame them for Gaborik not panning out so far as there was no reason to believe he couldn't be a 30+ goalscorer again instead of the 20+ guy he looks like so far. Horton was a great signing, although he's a second line winger on a good team. We'll see what happens with the prospects. (...)

I never said I was convinced it will work out. It's well known that I feel leaving Vinny to twist in the wind was ridiculous, and there are other moves/non-moves that I question. But at this point, although I'm disappointed in how the team is playing and their place in the standings, I'm not moved by those benchmarks to to think the franchise is in bad shape. I think it's in good shape.

 

[Kev22]

For those of you that don't play hockey. The only thing a captain is technically for is to have a designated player to talk to the refs. And if the C isn't on the ice that's what the A's are for. That's it. Thats a emotional player such as dubinsky isn't the best choice for captain and someone like Johnson or Murray would make a better captain as they seem to be more even headed, are both young, and have good leadership qualities.

I don't buy this for one second. Hockey is not different than any other team sport. Captains keep their cool when speaking to officials, sure, but in my sports experience are some of the most intense people both on and off the field, court, ice, etc. If it is solely to have someone talk to the official, then anyone could be Captain. I just don't buy it. Look at the long history of great captains in hockey. You can't tell me someone like Mark Messier was made Captain to talk with officials. This fan base needs to wake up. Brandon Dubinsky is the Captain of this club, put the damn letter on his sweater and begin creating a lasting identity.

 

[CBJx614]

I don't buy this for one second. Hockey is not different than any other team sport. Captains keep their cool when speaking to officials, sure, but in my sports experience are some of the most intense people both on and off the field, court, ice, etc. If it is solely to have someone talk to the official, then anyone could be Captain. I just don't buy it. Look at the long history of great captains in hockey. You can't tell me someone like Mark Messier was made Captain to talk with officials. This fan base needs to wake up. Brandon Dubinsky is the Captain of this club, put the damn letter on his sweater and begin creating a lasting identity.

Sorry but captaincy isn't for the fan base. It's not for the coaches to decide or management. But the locker room as a whole. And I agree with everyone that Dubinsky is most likely to be named captain if one is named, but naming a captain won't create a lasting identity.

Our players playing the same brand of hockey night in night out, season after season creates a brand of hockey. And it really shouldn't matter what letters are where, you play for the logo on the front of your sweater and it shouldn't take one player getting a C on his for things to magically click.

 

[db2011]

I don't buy this for one second. Hockey is not different than any other team sport. Captains keep their cool when speaking to officials, sure, but in my sports experience are some of the most intense people both on and off the field, court, ice, etc. If it is solely to have someone talk to the official, then anyone could be Captain. I just don't buy it. Look at the long history of great captains in hockey. You can't tell me someone like Mark Messier was made Captain to talk with officials. This fan base needs to wake up. Brandon Dubinsky is the Captain of this club, put the damn letter on his sweater and begin creating a lasting identity.

Evidently, all those great captains were great players who just happened to be captains. You know, for the fans.

Sorry but captaincy isn't for the fan base. It's not for the coaches to decide or management. But the locker room as a whole. And I agree with everyone that Dubinsky is most likely to be named captain if one is named, but naming a captain won't create a lasting identity.

Our players playing the same brand of hockey night in night out, season after season creates a brand of hockey. And it really shouldn't matter what letters are where, you play for the logo on the front of your sweater and it shouldn't take one player getting a C on his for things to magically click.

You don't think there's an expectation in the locker room to organize the captaincy and the A's? Presumably, all these guys have played with captains all their lives, so it might seem like since there will be a captain, why not name one already? It's been since Nash left.

Of course what you say about playing for the logo is true, and the best players playing well and leading in the absence of a captain etc etc- these statements can't be denied. I just don't think it's about something "magically" clicking into place. It's just about getting **** squared away like a real damn NHL hockey club and not be playing under these artificial circumstances.

But whatever, I don't play hockey. I agree with Kev22 that hockey's like any sport, and they all have captains, so what gives here? The too-cool-for-captains, it's only for the fans shtick sounds disingenuous to me though.

I am spending way too much time on this issue.