Has Peak/Prime McDavid surpassed Peak/Prime Crosby and Peak/Prime Jagr already?

[lbj23]

He has 5 Art Ross Trophy tying Jagr, better than Crosby 2 Art Ross Trophies. Has he already surpassed Crosby and Jagr who are generally acknowledged as the two best forwards post the Mario Lemieux era? Would love to hear arguments. And btw, McDavid can add to his accomplishments as he's still in his prime while Crosby is on the tail end of his career. But right now, has he already surpassed the latter two in terms of peak accomplishments?

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[jigglysquishy]

 

[The Panther]

Yes.

In terms of peak, there's no doubt that McDavid is ahead of Crosby. Comparing his peak to Jagr's is a little closer.

This forum is really obsessed with player comparisons. I sometimes wonder why we don't spend more time with interesting historical stories, facts, anecdotes, etc., or why we don't compare teams more than individual players (as hockey fundamentally isn't about individual players). But I guess it's just a human thing to obsess over individuals. I've noticed that whenever I start a thread about a historical season, or a thread comparing teams, it dies after about 4 posts. But if I go on to the forum and type "Sakic vs. Yzerman... ENTER" or whatever, it'll become a thread that goes of for 46 pages. I dunno, it's weird.

 

[gretzkyoilers]

How about comparing Jagr's first three seasons to his last three full seasons? This might be a better comparison with the perception that the NHL was "easier" in the early 90's versus the 2010's where most players from the 80's and 90's could play in this "new" NHL....

 

[VistamarCroissants]

McDavid has surpassed Crosby and is close to surpassing Jagr

 

[MadLuke]

I doubt McDavid has yet to peak, did he had a better peak than Jagr should not be too quick to answer, if he has a better year than the 153 + playoff, better playoff than last year..... we can re-take a look at it, but that would be quite something.

 

[Crosby2010]

So basically we are looking at a 153 point season where he dominates the scoring race at a level not seen since Mario and obviously Gretzky prior to that. Not just that but also a 42 point playoff. Neither Jagr or Crosby have done either of these. I know we never saw Crosby play at this level. With Jagr there are the times between 1995-'00 where he certainly looked McDavid-esque when looking at the scoring race. 1999 and 2000 come to mind. And even then, is that 2021 or 2023 McDavid? It isn't better I don't think but how much worse is it? I'd say just a little inferior. He did hit 149 points. So there is definitely an argument. As for careers it is still Crosby and Jagr over McDavid. He is just in his 10th year. They played a lot of hockey, Crosby is in his 20th. Both Jagr and Crosby are tied for 5th all-time in playoff points, so it is not as if they have never been here before. But I don't think we have seen a player at his best as good as McDavid since Mario, and that's almost three decades worth.

 

[The Panther]

So basically we are looking at a 153 point season where he dominates the scoring race at a level not seen since Mario and obviously Gretzky prior to that. Not just that but also a 42 point playoff. Neither Jagr or Crosby have done either of these.

I agree with you, but it's worth noting that in the calendar year of 1999, Jagr scored 152 points in 84 games played. That's 1.81 points-per-game, with the next-best player of that calendar year being Selanne at 1.30, an enormous separation.

Now, Jagr didn't do that in any one actual season (post 1995-96 anyway), but 150 points or whatever in 82 games in 1999 (full-on Dead Puck Era) probably "adjusts" to about 170 points or something crazy.

 

[MadLuke]

So basically we are looking at a 153 point season where he dominates the scoring race at a level not seen since Mario and obviously Gretzky prior to that.

1998-99 NHL

1.	J. Jágr	127
2.	T. Selänne*	107
3.	P. Kariya*	101
4.	P. Forsberg*	97
5.	J. Sakic*	96
6.	A. Yashin	94
7.	T. Fleury	93
	E. Lindros*	93
9.	J. LeClair	90
10.	P. Demitra	89

vs
2022-23 NHL

1.	C. McDavid	153
2.	L. Draisaitl	128
3.	N. Kucherov	113
	D. Pastrňák	113
5.	N. MacKinnon	111
6.	J. Robertson	109
	M. Tkachuk	109
8.	M. Rantanen	105
9.	R. Nugent-Hopkins	104
10.	E. Pettersson	102

It is true

McDavid scored 152 when the average top 10 players (excluded himself) scored 110.44 pts, or 37.6% more than the average top 10, 19.5% gap with number 2#10
Jagr scored 127 when the average top 10 players (excluded himself) scored 95.56 pts, or 32.9% more than the average top 10, 18.7% gap with number 2.

We saw something really close since Lemieux before that too playoff aside, in 2021 by McDavid:
2020-21 NHL

1.	C. McDavid	105
2.	L. Draisaitl	84
3.	B. Marchand	69
4.	M. Marner	67
5.	P. Kane	66
	A. Matthews	66
	M. Rantanen	66
8.	N. MacKinnon	65
9.	M. Scheifele	63
10.	S. Crosby	62

He scored 105 when the rest of the top 10 averaged 67.56 pts, 55% more, a bigger domination than the 153 pts season, but in a shorter year and obviously early first round exit.

In his last 82 games of Mack scored 150 pts (the 10th players during that time has 97), will see what should soon end of his peak look like but could be impressive has well.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Yes, I don't think it's too controversial to say he has the best peak since Lemeiux.

The only players with more Ross trophies are Howe, Mario and Gretzky

The only players with more Harts are Howe, Gretzky and Shore

 

[bobholly39]

Peak and prime are two different things.

Crosby's peak isn't all that impressive. It would have been more impressive without major injuryes in 11, 12 & 13. So yes - McDavid has surpassed Crosby's peak.

Crosby's prime? For me prime is loosely defined as seasons in which you're at ~85%+ of your "best" level, and considering's Crosby's insane consistency, I'd argue his whole career so far can be said to be part of his prime. No - I don't think McDavid has surpassed that yet. He likely will in time, but needs more years.

Jagr's peak is stronger than Crosby because he has more full seasons. Despite that, yes I think I'd have McDavid's peak ahead by now.

Prime? I think so too - I think prime McDavid > prime Jagr

Jagr still has impressive longevity outside of his prime, so I still rank Jagr ahead overall, but McDavid is getting close.

 

[daver]

Jagr still has impressive longevity outside of his prime, so I still rank Jagr ahead overall, but McDavid is getting close.

A ranking of their best regular seasons with tiers:

Tier 1

1. McDavid 22/23
2. Jagr 98/99
3. McDavid 202/21
3. Jagr 99/00

5. McDavid 23/24

Tier 2

Jagr 94/95
Jagr 95/96
Jagr 97/98
Jagr 00/01
Jagr 05/06

McDavid 16/17
McDavid 18/19
McDavid 22/23

Tier 3

McDavid 17/18
McDavid 19/20
Jagr 96/97

I would give McDavid the edge in playoff performances


Very close, Jagr perhaps stays ahead with longevity but I think McDavid is arguably is right beside him right now.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Easily surpasses Crosby’s peak unless you extrapolate a whole lot for Crosby.

In the same ballpark as Jagr’s best and probably better depending how you look at the context.