Has Connor Bedard quietly became underrated ?

[authentic]

Disagree on the first two, as someone who is old enough to be around for Hull, and know how Richard was regarded in his day. There was always a massive controversy as to whether Howe or Richard was better. Lidstrom I am less sure about ...

Lidstrom I'd say was definitely not. He was consistently the best defenseman for a number of years on a stacked team, but during his time there were a few who were around his level if not even better at their best like Pronger. There were several forwards who were considered better players than Lidstrom during his entire career, heck he was rarely considered the best player on his team even between Yzerman, Fedorov and Datsyuk. That to me makes it a no brainer that he wasn't generational. He wasn't even the best Swedish player from his generation.

 

[MadLuke]

Just read the first messages, I feel like there is a bit of downplay on how hyped as a prospect he was, that was his

draft -1:

Rank	Player	Team	Goals
1	Ben King	Red Deer	52
2	Connor Bedard	Regina	51
3	Jackson Berezowski	Everett	46
4	Dylan Guenther	Edmonton	45
4	Logan Stankoven	Kamloops	45

draft year goals:

Rank	Player	Team	Goals
1	Connor Bedard	Regina	71
2	Kai Uchacz	Red Deer	50
3	Jackson Berezowski	Everett	48
4	Chase Wheatcroft	Prince George	47
4	Josh Filmon	Swift Current	47

Draft year:

Rank	Player	Team	Points
1	Connor Bedard	Regina	143
2	Chase Wheatcroft	Prince George	107
3	Zachary Benson	Winnipeg	98
4	Logan Stankoven	Kamloops	97
4	Riley Heidt	Prince George	97

23 points at the world junior your draft year, 36 in 16 games during his short career, going over Lindros 31 in 21.

 

[Brookbank]

Some people have loose definitions of generational. Will be a great player, won’t be generational.
I’m a big hawks fan.

This isn't about some people. The hockey establishment already deemed Bedard generational. Just as the hockey establishment deemed Lindros, Crosby and McDavid generational. The same thing happened to Bedard.

You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it. But Bedard is already defined as generational.

Just like you didn't have to like or agree that Crosby or McDavid were generational in 2004 and 2014.

 

[Waterbuf]

He's rated

 

[Brookbank]

About Crosby.

2005-06 was the highest scoring season in league history thanks to the new rules coming out of the lockout. There was no players over 100 points and one over 90 in the previous season of hockey (2003-04). In 2005-06, there was 7 players over 100 points.

Interesting how Crosby topped out at 120 points the next year and never reached that mark again. He really nailed those new rules. As did Ovechkin. Nothing against Crosby. I am just saying, its not like Crosby had light your hair on fire stats for his first 5 years and that is why he's considered generational.

But here everyone is, watching Bedard goal totals nightly. And if he doesn't get XX goals and points by XX, he's not generational, bruh. Except no. That's not actually how it works.

 

[Golden_Jet]

This isn't about some people. The hockey establishment already deemed Bedard generational. Just as the hockey establishment deemed Lindros, Crosby and McDavid generational. The same thing happened to Bedard.

You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it. But Bedard is already defined as generational.

Just like you didn't have to like or agree that Crosby or McDavid were generational in 2004 and 2014.

The hockey establishment never deemed him generational, just because a few said it, does not mean he is. There are a lot more people in the hockey establishment than a few.
Sorry but he is not generational, as a hawk fan, it would be great, but he’s not on that tier.

 

[Brookbank]

The hockey establishment never deemed him generational, just because a few said it, does not mean he is. There are a lot more people in the hockey establishment than a few.
Sorry but he is not generational, as a hawk fan, it would be great, but he’s not on that tier.

This has nothing to do with the Hawks. I can't stand the Hawks. My 2nd most hated team. Thankfully Bedard isn't putting any roots down in the city.

And no. The establishment did in fact, deem him generational. And that can be proven.

 

[MadLuke]

2005-06 was the highest scoring season in league history

You posted a graph that seem to indicate this is obviously false, in the same message.

Nothing against Crosby. I am just saying, its not like Crosby had light your hair on fire stats for his first 5 years and that is why he's considered generational.

Without being Gretzky-esque or prime Jagr, he did lead the league in ppg his first 5 years in the regular season and among the people with a lot of playoff games.

Crosby january 1, 2006 to january 1, 2007 had the most points in the nhl, at a very young age:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

 

[Golden_Jet]

This has nothing to do with the Hawks. I can't stand the Hawks. My 2nd most hated team. Thankfully Bedard isn't putting any roots down in the city.

And no. The establishment did in fact, deem him generational. And that can be proven.

lol, funny story though

 

[ClydeLee]

This has nothing to do with the Hawks. I can't stand the Hawks. My 2nd most hated team. Thankfully Bedard isn't putting any roots down in the city.

And no. The establishment did in fact, deem him generational. And that can be proven.

Sorry that they fired Sheldon.

But proven? If your conclusion from before was exceptional status in the chl equals generational... but how could you asert that's 1 to 1.

Sports terminology is stupid as obviously people don't have set meaning on these words. So noone can say something is proven with no set definitions.

 

[Brookbank]

You posted a graph that seem to indicate this is obviously false, in the same message.


Without being Gretzky-esque or prime Jagr, he did lead the league in ppg his first 5 years in the regular season and among the people with a lot of playoff games.

Crosby january 1, 2006 to january 1, 2007 had the most points in the nhl, at a very young age:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

In terms of total goals scored during an NHL regular season, the 2005–06 regular season turned out to be the highest-scoring in NHL history, with 7,443 goals scored in 1,230 games. The highest-scoring season in terms of goals per game still belonged to the 1992–93 regular season, in which 7,311 goals were scored in only 1,008 games.

Conor Bedard was 18 last season. Not 18 at the start of the season, but 18 for the entire season -- that is, a high school student for his entire rookie NHL season. Bedard scored at a 74-point pace overall. So, how many players, before turning 19, have scored at that pace since 1990 ?

Sidney Crosby. (In the post lockout year)

 

[MadLuke]

In terms of total goals scored during an NHL regular season

Why would anyone look at the total numbers of goals (which will change a lot by the numbers of teams), you have a nice graph there that show you want interest you, gpg, and it clearly show 06 was not close to be the highest scoring season of all time:

NHL League Averages | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the latest NHL League Averages including shots, saves, goal averages and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Hockey reference boost post lockout scoring a bit by counting the goal winning shootout goals as a goal and yet, 2005-2006 is just out of the Top 40 season with the most goal scored per games as the #41 highest offense season in league history.

2021-2022, 2022-2023 and 2023-2024 should have had way more goals, more teams, more goal per games, I am unsure where you get that information about 2006.

As for a good sign of power at be feeling Bedard could be generational, you have the first game he had in the nhl, being against Crosby, the sit down interview, etc...

So, how many players, before turning 19, have scored at that pace since 1990 ?

McDavid before turning 19, scored 12 in 13, I would not imagine anyone else did (Ovechkin, Malkin, Lindros, Forsberg, Yashin were all a bit old rookie)

 

[crowfish]

In terms of total goals scored during an NHL regular season, the 2005–06 regular season turned out to be the highest-scoring in NHL history, with 7,443 goals scored in 1,230 games. The highest-scoring season in terms of goals per game still belonged to the 1992–93 regular season, in which 7,311 goals were scored in only 1,008 games.

Conor Bedard was 18 last season. Not 18 at the start of the season, but 18 for the entire season -- that is, a high school student for his entire rookie NHL season. Bedard scored at a 74-point pace overall. So, how many players, before turning 19, have scored at that pace since 1990 ?

Sidney Crosby. (In the post lockout year)

Pace isn't as important as the pts/game relative to the league. Crosby was 6th in pts/game and Bedard was 57th...

There is a big difference between producing like a top 6 player right away vs a top 50 player.

 

[PainForShane]

IMO

Rocket
Howe
Hull
Orr
Gretz
Lemieux
Lidstrom?
Crosby
Ovi
McDavid

Guys like Morenz, Shore, Beliveau, Harvey, Lafleur, Espo, Bourque, Dionne, Jagr, Trottier, Bossy, Potvin, Yzerman, Sakic, Messier, Coffey, Mackinnon, among many others, have strong cases, but fall just below the line, for me. All the guys above dominated the league for a time, and were acknowleged as the best. Ovi is the one guy you can argue, but he scored so often, for so long, that I think he belongs.

Bedard is still super young, so it's too early to say anything definitive about him(Lafleur was underwhelming in his first three years), but I don't see generational. If he can be mentioned in the same breath as the group in the paragraph, or in the Kane/Mahovlich/Perreault/Mikita tier, it would be a great accomplishment.

Great post. Also want to mention Howe took a few years to start scoring, obvi we know how his career ended up.

My thought is, like any young player, for too early to tell about Bedard either way. And arguing he's certainly generational is equally dumb as arguing he certainly won't be generational

 

[authentic]

You posted a graph that seem to indicate this is obviously false, in the same message.


Without being Gretzky-esque or prime Jagr, he did lead the league in ppg his first 5 years in the regular season and among the people with a lot of playoff games.

Crosby january 1, 2006 to january 1, 2007 had the most points in the nhl, at a very young age:

NHL Stats

The official source for NHL Stats including skaters, goalies, teams stats and more.

www.nhl.com

Actually you could argue Crosby was better than Gretzky from 18 and a half to 19 and a half since that was basically Gretzky's rookie season. Pretty crazy really.

 

[Blue and Green]

Actually you could argue Crosby was better than Gretzky from 18 and a half to 19 and a half since that was basically Gretzky's rookie season. Pretty crazy really.

After putting up 55 points in the first half of his rookie season, Gretzky ballooned to 82 points in the second half-- which started in the month that he turned 19.

 

[Brookbank]

IMO

Rocket
Howe
Hull
Orr
Gretz
Lemieux
Lidstrom?
Crosby
Ovi
McDavid

Guys like Morenz, Shore, Beliveau, Harvey, Lafleur, Espo, Bourque, Dionne, Jagr, Trottier, Bossy, Potvin, Yzerman, Sakic, Messier, Coffey, Mackinnon, among many others, have strong cases, but fall just below the line, for me. All the guys above dominated the league for a time, and were acknowleged as the best. Ovi is the one guy you can argue, but he scored so often, for so long, that I think he belongs.

Bedard is still super young, so it's too early to say anything definitive about him(Lafleur was underwhelming in his first three years), but I don't see generational. If he can be mentioned in the same breath as the group in the paragraph, or in the Kane/Mahovlich/Perreault/Mikita tier, it would be a great accomplishment.

Thats the thing about generational though. You get nominated as generational before your career starts. And unless you did , it doesn't matter how good you were. If you weren't declared generational before your career started , you won't be generational. It's not something you transcend to. If you could transcend to it , many of the players in that list would have.

If Ovie wasn't in the same rookie year as Crosby , he would have been declared generational. But he wasn't. And there's lots of other players on that list that were overshadowed by others.

 

[PainForShane]

Thats the thing about generational though. You get nominated as generational before your career starts. And unless you did , it doesn't matter how good you were. If you weren't declared generational before your career started , you won't be generational. It's not something you transcend to. If you could transcend to it , many of the players in that list would have.

If Ovie wasn't in the same rookie year as Crosby , he would have been declared generational. But he wasn't. And there's lots of other players on that list that were overshadowed by others.

Nah man. You get nominated as generational after your career ends

 

[Golden_Jet]

Thats the thing about generational though. You get nominated as generational before your career starts. And unless you did , it doesn't matter how good you were. If you weren't declared generational before your career started , you won't be generational. It's not something you transcend to. If you could transcend to it , many of the players in that list would have.

If Ovie wasn't in the same rookie year as Crosby , he would have been declared generational. But he wasn't. And there's lots of other players on that list that were overshadowed by others.

No you don’t. Some could be labelled that beforehand, but you need to play first.

There are less than 10 players in history that hit that mark.

 

[MuckOG]

Thats the thing about generational though. You get nominated as generational before your career starts. And unless you did , it doesn't matter how good you were. If you weren't declared generational before your career started , you won't be generational. It's not something you transcend to. If you could transcend to it , many of the players in that list would have.

If Ovie wasn't in the same rookie year as Crosby , he would have been declared generational. But he wasn't. And there's lots of other players on that list that were overshadowed by others.

This is nonsense.

The players that we all agree are generational, are so based on what they did in the NHL, not what they did in Juniors.

If Connor Bedard turns into a generational player, it will be based on his career and nothing more.

 

[KeyserSoze81]

I think the real question on all of our minds:

Can someone become underrated, loudly? The semantic implications are boundless.

Personally, my career goal is to become quietly overrated. I want people to think of me as a near deity, but in the comfort of their own homes. A modest worship.

 

[authentic]

After putting up 55 points in the first half of his rookie season, Gretzky ballooned to 82 points in the second half-- which started in the month that he turned 19.

Crosby had 96 points after 56 games in his 19 year old season, in a significantly lower scoring league

 

[CallMeShaft]

Bedard is not as good as Crosby was at 19. He likely won't have as good of a career as Crosby.

But the line between generational and non-generational player isn't Sidney Crosby. It's not McDavid either. Hell, there really isn't even a line to describe what "generational" means in the NHL.

The kid is good, despite possessing some current and noticeable flaws in his game. He might end up being the 3rd best player in the cap era when his career comes to an end. If he does, I'd say he earned the title of generational, though that's obviously a huge challenge and a long way from now. Currently, he's simply an elite, gamebreaking center carrying a mediocre forward group.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Ppg guy , great player

 

[Brookbank]

This is nonsense.

The players that we all agree are generational, are so based on what they did in the NHL, not what they did in Juniors.

If Connor Bedard turns into a generational player, it will be based on his career and nothing more.

Not really , no. Not in the modern era.

Which players that was unknown by name in their junior years and never went #1 over all became generational ? Going #1 by a mile is all part of it.

Lindros , Crosby and McDavid were considered generational before their careers started. Even casual hockey fans knew Crosby and McDavid by name before their careers started. (and also Bedard)

I was there to see it for Crosby and McDavid. (and now Bedard) And i was too young for Lindros but he demanded the biggest salary in the NHL before he played a game.