Prospect Info: Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL)/Maine Mariners (ECHL) Thread *Part X*

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Lias had also very little rest and played tons of games even before he was drafted.
Was always wondering how long he could do this.
 
I hope this isn't directed at me. I've been one of his most outspoken advocates, think it's silly that he's down there, and believe he should have been given an opportunity to take Howden's minutes months ago.

However, the guy I see right now is not the great AHL player I saw at the beginning of the year. I personally think he looks slightly disinterested and not as motivated. I could be COMPLETELY wrong, but that's what I see.

It doesn't change my long term outlook for him or anything. It's just an observation.
You’re not wrong, and the overall aura around Hartford is the pits right now. They’re playing like ass and making peewee level mistakes through all 3 zones. The D is a wreck with all LHD shots, and they just can’t execute.

So factor in Lias not putting in the same effort plus that bad environment, and it’s just the perfect storm of ineptitude right now
 
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You’re not wrong, and the overall aura around Hartford is the pits right now. They’re playing like ass and making peewee level mistakes through all 3 zones. The D is a wreck with all LHD shots, and they just can’t execute.

So factor in Lias not putting in the same effort plus that bad environment, and it’s just the perfect storm of ineptitude right now
These are really good points. The defense sucks, I don't think for a total lack of talent, they just don't gel. Pairings have been all over the place, Gilmour isn't really a defenseman, Day and Crawley I think are questionable at this level, etc.

I think something is still wrong with Gettinger. Since he came back from the "upper body injury" he hasn't looked right. That hurts because he was becoming a dependable contributor. Brickley isn't worthless but he's definitely a downgrade over Schneider. You have someone like Leedahl who is a fine defensive performer but does literally nothing else, and he's now playing regularly. O'Donnell, I've always said, at least he tries. But that's it. I wish Lindqvist stuck it out but don't blame him for going home, where he is establishing himself as a star and getting more national team reps.

On top of that, Mazanec has been rough. Tokarski up and down. When Georgiev has been down there he has struggled.

It's just a bad situation across the board. I think on talent alone they're a fringe playoff team, but they're falling apart at the seams for a variety of reasons. Andersson disappearing obviously doesn't help, and with Lettieri up (and honestly, Lettieri I think is a 4A player), they're f***ed.
 
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Respectfully I disagree. I’ve officiaited youth hockey for 20+ years including having worked a few games with future NHL players(Sonny Milano and Rob O’Garra most often when they were much younger) when they were 16. They were elite talent then and stood out in their games but those numbers could not be more irrelevant to projecting future NHL potential. The competition level is nothing and the players they play against may never even make a D1 college program let alone the NHL.

15 games is a small sample size. I agree it’s too early to be definitive but I’m not willing to give Lias the benefit of the doubt because he had a tremendous Bantam and Midget season...

What? How is this relevant?

Lias dominated J18 and J20 in Sweden on a level rarely seen and then did great in SHL and AHL as a teenager, like really great… He posted numbers that we would have talked about as elite for his age Group if Elias Pettersson wasn't an absolute Alien. You officiating some junior games in NA has no relevance here because i'm not talking about bantam or midget, i'm talking about a 3+ year sample which included J18, J20 SuperElit, SHL, AHL and numerous international tournaments with WJC at the top.
 
I hope this isn't directed at me. I've been one of his most outspoken advocates, think it's silly that he's down there, and believe he should have been given an opportunity to take Howden's minutes months ago.

However, the guy I see right now is not the great AHL player I saw at the beginning of the year. I personally think he looks slightly disinterested and not as motivated. I could be COMPLETELY wrong, but that's what I see.

It doesn't change my long term outlook for him or anything. It's just an observation.

It was not directed at you, it was directed at the last 2-3 pages but no i didn't specifically notice your posts :) Your posts were rather balanced.
 
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It was not directed at you, it was directed at the last 2-3 pages but no i didn't specifically notice your posts :) Your posts were rather balanced.
Thanks.

I really do think Lias is frustrated. I think he was frustrated with his usage (which I found to be unwarranted) in the NHL, and to then be sent back down, I think exacerbated it. He just looks frustrated and--I hesitate to really say disinterested, because I think that's too harsh--but like he hasn't really taken the AHL assignment in stride and might be letting his emotions affect his play. Again, this is just what I've surmised from watching, and I could be completely wrong about it.

I understand why he would be frustrated and I understand how that frustration would affect his play. I just hope that if I'm correct, and this is the case, that he can work past it. He's far too talented to only have one point in his last eight games or whatever. He is good enough to be playing at something like a .75 PPG pace in that league (although without a ton of talent around him, it's harder). Lias should be an integral part of the Rangers moving forward so I hope that whatever it is, whether it's attitude or something else, he figures it out.

What I'm really hoping for is that when they essentially raise the white flag and ship out Hayes, Zucc, McQuaid, and whoever else, he gets the call back up and really f***ing seizes control and never looks back. Because he's a really good player.
 
I think the combination of disappointment at both himself and Quinn (him not playing as well as he could and Quinn not giving him a better chance to succeed) along with Hartford being the worst team in the AHL for the last month and a half or so is the answer to why he's underperforming.
 
These are really good points. The defense sucks, I don't think for a total lack of talent, they just don't gel. Pairings have been all over the place, Gilmour isn't really a defenseman, Day and Crawley I think are questionable at this level, etc.

I think something is still wrong with Gettinger. Since he came back from the "upper body injury" he hasn't looked right. That hurts because he was becoming a dependable contributor. Brickley isn't worthless but he's definitely a downgrade over Schneider. You have someone like Leedahl who is a fine defensive performer but does literally nothing else, and he's now playing regularly. O'Donnell, I've always said, at least he tries. But that's it. I wish Lindqvist stuck it out but don't blame him for going home, where he is establishing himself as a star and getting more national team reps.

On top of that, Mazanec has been rough. Tokarski up and down. When Georgiev has been down there he has struggled.

It's just a bad situation across the board. I think on talent alone they're a fringe playoff team, but they're falling apart at the seams for a variety of reasons. Andersson disappearing obviously doesn't help, and with Lettieri up (and honestly, Lettieri I think is a 4A player), they're ****ed.

I don’t even think they’re that talented, tbh. The Schneider trade is baffling to me, and most of our younger guys are only first-year pros down there. Factor in us not drafting forwards that well from 2012-2016, and Hartford has just been an abyss. Gorton and Drury really need to find a way to find draft better (14-16 drafts are brutal) and create a feeder system to backfill our organizational depth. I think they’ve done a decent job getting the process started, but I still want to see much bigger improvements.

The one area where I think they’ve done well is finding 4A guys like Holland and Schneider, but they can’t expect them to carry the entire lineup.
 
I don’t even think they’re that talented, tbh. The Schneider trade is baffling to me, and most of our younger guys are only first-year pros down there. Factor in us not drafting forwards that well from 2012-2016, and Hartford has just been an abyss. Gorton and Drury really need to find a way to find draft better (14-16 drafts are brutal) and create a feeder system to backfill our organizational depth. I think they’ve done a decent job getting the process started, but I still want to see much bigger improvements.

The one area where I think they’ve done well is finding 4A guys like Holland and Schneider, but they can’t expect them to carry the entire lineup.
I meant the defense, primarily, in that while they're not world beaters, I think they have enough talent to be better than they are. O'Gara and Bigras are pretty good AHL defensemen. Lindgren has had to adjust, but he's doing pretty darn well in my eyes. Hajek has been up and down but is serviceable. So right there, you have 4 guys that are at least of AHL quality, even if the rookies make mistakes. Gilmour is terrible defensively but has to be one of the top offensive defensemen in the AHL. He's literally the AHL's Brent Burns in terms of point production. I just feel like with that, they should be better as a unit. Maybe not, I feel like I always overestimate what Hartford can do (or I'm right in my estimation, and McCambridge sucks just like Company Man Ken).
 
I meant the defense, primarily, in that while they're not world beaters, I think they have enough talent to be better than they are. O'Gara and Bigras are pretty good AHL defensemen. Lindgren has had to adjust, but he's doing pretty darn well in my eyes. Hajek has been up and down but is serviceable. So right there, you have 4 guys that are at least of AHL quality, even if the rookies make mistakes. Gilmour is terrible defensively but has to be one of the top offensive defensemen in the AHL. He's literally the AHL's Brent Burns in terms of point production. I just feel like with that, they should be better as a unit. Maybe not, I feel like I always overestimate what Hartford can do (or I'm right in my estimation, and McCambridge sucks just like Company Man Ken).
I think they’re good individual pieces, but don’t believe they mesh well as an overall unit. Bigras is their best overall dman, IMO, and he has the benefit of being able to play both sides effectively. From that point forward, no other dman is good enough to be playing their off side. As a result, I’d slot my LD depth as 1) Hajek, 2) Gilmour, and 3) Lindgren. RobO is what he is at this point, and I don’t really see him staying here. Crawley is similar, but maybe he’ll settle in as a solid AHL vet.

The biggest problem, and it’s been this way since Petr Zamorsky and beyond, is that they haven’t had any good AHL RHD to be a lynchpin over the course of 1+ seasons.

I’m not a huge fan of McCambridge either, but I’m not going to blame him when he’s not working with much.
 
What? How is this relevant?

Lias dominated J18 and J20 in Sweden on a level rarely seen and then did great in SHL and AHL as a teenager, like really great… He posted numbers that we would have talked about as elite for his age Group if Elias Pettersson wasn't an absolute Alien. You officiating some junior games in NA has no relevance here because i'm not talking about bantam or midget, i'm talking about a 3+ year sample which included J18, J20 SuperElit, SHL, AHL and numerous international tournaments with WJC at the top.

My point here is not to argue my ability to evaluate talent on the youth level, my point is-- playing against talent that is far less talented and not advancing to higher levels of hockey is such a poor way of predicting success at the NHL level. The NHL is far superior in every single way to the leagues Lias has dominated( used liberally) in every single aspect that it's completely silly to conclude "oh well since he's always been good against the competition he's played against, of course he will be great at the NHL level." The top players in the SuperElit league are not in the NHL because they can't play in the NHL. Great, he dominated against them-- because HE SHOULD! How exactly is that relevant now as he tries to make the leap to the NHL?!?! Now he's facing better talent and he looks below average against that level of talent. He's not even dominating in a league filled with talent that he should be better than.

My point in highlighting experience I have with youth sports is, many elite talents who dominate at lower levels against same age competition and make people go "wow, that's a talent" never make it far in the game. It's easy for these talents to accumulate huge point totals playing against talent they are just better than. The key is how do they do against the best of the best, not just how they did vs the pretty good or the better than average.

The World Juniors is such an overrated way to evaluate talent. I love the tournament but it's merely a few week sample of the players abilities.
 
My point here is not to argue my ability to evaluate talent on the youth level, my point is-- playing against talent that is far less talented and not advancing to higher levels of hockey is such a poor way of predicting success at the NHL level. The NHL is far superior in every single way to the leagues Lias has dominated( used liberally) in every single aspect that it's completely silly to conclude "oh well since he's always been good against the competition he's played against, of course he will be great at the NHL level." The top players in the SuperElit league are not in the NHL because they can't play in the NHL. Great, he dominated against them-- because HE SHOULD! How exactly is that relevant now as he tries to make the leap to the NHL?!?! Now he's facing better talent and he looks below average against that level of talent. He's not even dominating in a league filled with talent that he should be better than.

My point in highlighting experience I have with youth sports is, many elite talents who dominate at lower levels against same age competition and make people go "wow, that's a talent" never make it far in the game. It's easy for these talents to accumulate huge point totals playing against talent they are just better than. The key is how do they do against the best of the best, not just how they did vs the pretty good or the better than average.

The World Juniors is such an overrated way to evaluate talent. I love the tournament but it's merely a few week sample of the players abilities.

This is dumb.

Thing is that we should compare what Lias did in in SuperElit, SHL, AHL and WJC in comparison to what others have done in the same Leagues at the same age, and when doing that he is right up there. He's a really good prospect and your logic is very flawed.
 
It has been increasingly hard to watch this team.. 9 game winless streak is gut-wrenching. Still... hard to resist a 3in3 weekend.

Game 50 of the season is tonight, Pack are the worst in the East and 3rd worst in the AHL... :-(

Just a flat out fugly season on all fronts and ends.
 
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It has been increasingly hard to watch this team.. 9 game winless streak is gut-wrenching. Still... hard to resist a 3in3 weekend.

Game 50 of the season is tonight, Pack are the worst in the East and 3rd worst in the AHL... :-(

Just a flat out fugly season on all fronts and ends.
Yeah it has been awful. I saw yesterday they signed some 27-year-old ECHL/AHL defenseman to a PTO. It will be awesome watching him and Tolkinen together!
 
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