Prospect Info: Hartford Wolf Pack (AHL)/Maine Mariners (ECHL) Thread *Part X*

[wildcat48]

Maine won tonight, 5-3, to snap a five-game losing streak. Brycen Martin had a goal and two assists. Morgan Adams-Moisan was suspended three games for a match penalty checking to the head penalty that he received Friday night in Manchester. Tonight was the first game of his suspension.

 

[Beacon]

Lias realy looking like one of those Malhotra type picks: very early draftee because he's close to ready to play on a bad NHL team, but really not a ton of potential. Teams hype their early picks and fans jump on board because it's exciting to see a teenager even get a cup of coffee in the NHL, but so far I'm not seeing anything that looks like a future NHL second liner. Fast was a superior player at the same age in a league that is at least as good as the AHL, maybe better.

Let's see what next season brings, maybe there's a breakthrough of some sort.

 

[Sarge13]

Lias realy looking like one of those Malhotra type picks: very early draftee because he's close to ready to play on a bad NHL team, but really not a ton of potential. Teams hype their early picks and fans jump on board because it's exciting to see a teenager even get a cup of coffee in the NHL, but so far I'm not seeing anything that looks like a future NHL second liner. Fast was a superior player at the same age in a league that is at least as good as the AHL, maybe better.

Let's see what next season brings, maybe there's a breakthrough of some sort.

Well Beacon, glad you got it all figured out, what can you say, he's no Mcilrath....

 

[ThirdEye]

Sounds like he's going to need to work his ass off this offseason if he wants another crack at the NHL

I'm not totally down on him yet as it can take some players longer than others to figure things out, but thank the lord that it seems like they have something with the guy they ended up taking later in that round. With how well our 2018 picks are doing, hit on a few guys this year and all is forgiven

 

[nyr2k2]

Honestly what I've seen with Lias since going back down is a guy who looks kind of annoyed, and maybe borderline disinterested? Which isn't good, but I somewhat understand. First half of last year he was playing well for a good team in the top division in Sweden. Then he came over and played really well in the AHL.

He played really well in the AHL to start this year. Much more engaged than he is now. His time in the NHL, I thought he did well in his role. I know people were down on him, but I think that was because of expectations and not really looking at what he's doing and who he's doing it with in what situations. I still maintain had you gone back to December and gave him Howden's role, Andersson would be thriving.

And now he's back in the AHL and he looks frustrated. We know he's a competitor so I'm not totally surprised. It's not an excuse--he has to play as hard as he can no matter where the Rangers put him. But I don't think it's a lack of skating ability or any other skill that's holding him back. I think he's just sulking. Hopefully he can get over that and force his way back up.

 

[I Eat Crow]

To borrow a reaction from @bobbop. Andersson is 20. 20!!!! Not every mid top 10 pick is going to be Elias Pettersson.

If he's 23-24 and still loafing around in the AHL, then I'll worry and he'll be in bust territory. There's still plenty of room for improvement. He needs to go to a skating guru over the summer. He'll be fine if he improves his first step and cleans up his stride. He's one of the smartest players in the Rangers system, NHL included. He'll play in the NHL and have a long career. Whether it's as a 4th line journeyman or top 6 all situations player is up to him and the developmental staff on the Rangers.

 

[Ola]

Kreider had 23 pts in 48 games in the AHL as a 22 y/o.

 

[Justin17]

This situation reminds me exactly of Timo Meier’s last season. Both of them were drafted a little higher than expected, and were seen as NHL ready. They also play a very similar power foward type game, and both had/have skating issues. Last season Meier didn’t seem like the best pick with Barzal and Boeser playing great, and people started questioning his upside and disliking the pick. Now he’s playing great with 19 goals and 47 points in 50 games. Obviously it’s not likely Lias will breakout and put up point per game seasons, but it’s way too early to label him a bust or a player with 4th line upside.

 

[Beacon]

Kreider had 23 pts in 48 games in the AHL as a 22 y/o.

Kreider had insane tools. He needed to adjust to the pro game and he clearly had trouble doing it when he left college because he could dominate children with his tools, but the pros required smarts as well. He figured it out. Some do (Kreider), some don't (Ryan Graves). But Lias a different player. What are his great tools?

 

[Kovalev27]

I honestly don’t care about his points or his age really. He has zero tools. He doesn’t do anything at an elite level. Maybe around the net but he never gets the puck around the net unless he’s on the pp which is really the only time he produced earlier in the year as well.

He looked just as behind at the AHL level as he did the NHL level.

But that team is bad. Really bad. I would get hajek out of there as soon as humanly possible

 

[Ola]

Kreider had insane tools. He needed to adjust to the pro game and he clearly had trouble doing it when he left college because he could dominate children with his tools, but the pros required smarts as well. He figured it out. Some do (Kreider), some don't (Ryan Graves). But Lias a different player. What are his great tools?

Hands, shot, vision and hockey-sense. What were Kreider's insane tools? He had very good speed -- but only when he got going. He was very meh in the AHL for that stretch. Could be invisible for 60 minutes.

I actually think that Lias has a lot of potential, very high ceiling, but that the key for him is to get to a level where he is around the puck more. We can only hope for the best, but I don't agree with the logic that he has low potential and the observation that goes with it. I think many confuses Lias (i) making very mature decisions with the puck, ie rarely trying to do to much, and (ii) him struggling a bit to keep up and be around the puck enough -- with him don't having talent. But he is very good at picking things up, he has a really broad register in terms of passing, shot, hockey sense, stickhandling moves and so forth. He stands out so much with his ability to not really get involved for a few games in a row and then once he gets a chance be so calm and poised and make the most of it.

What is Lias great abilities? He got everything that a Namestnikov don't have. And these are really the things that cannot be thaught.

 

[Irishguy42]

Lia's IQ is far greater compared to where our other guys were at his age.

 

[UnSandvich]

I'd say Lias' anticipation is borderline elite. He seems to be a step ahead with regards to knowing where a puck is going, it's just an issue of getting to it. And if he can improve his skating a bit, that'll show far more often

 

[effen]

I'm actually more worried about a bad attitude and entitlement issues at 20 more than skating.

I still think he'll be fine.

 

[Mac n Gs]

My only problem with Lias is that I wish he would've stayed in Sweden for the entirety of last season. I think he would've had the extra benefit of how regimented and structured SHL training programs are, especially since they skate nonstop.

Other than that, I'm not wasting time going down this Lias rabbit hole again. Lias has essentially identical production to Eeli Tolvanen this season.

Hartford is trash again this season, and Gorton and Drury really need to figure out how to build a winning environment down there.

 

[Joey Bones]

Kreider had insane tools. He needed to adjust to the pro game and he clearly had trouble doing it when he left college because he could dominate children with his tools, but the pros required smarts as well. He figured it out. Some do (Kreider), some don't (Ryan Graves). But Lias a different player. What are his great tools?

The same can be said for Lias. He left Sweden at an early age (19 to be exact) and is adjusting still, too. To be honest, he's in a better situation than Kreider was. He came out of college at 20 or 21 years old and it took about a year and a half trying to put it together. Lias is in his year and a half and STILL has room to figure it all out. He's only 20. I'm not worried.

FWIW, Ryan Graves is playing pretty decently in Colorado....

 

[Matz03]

They just have to keep adding prospects down there and hope the home grown guys can take bigger roles i.e. Letteri, Gettinger, Fontaine, Fogarty, Meskanaen, maybe adding Lundkvist, Virta. Ahl vets are needed but as supporting players not as key guys, the just mail it in half way through. A coaching change might also be there needed there as well.

 

[Beacon]

They just have to keep adding prospects down there and hope the home grown guys can take bigger roles i.e. Letteri, Gettinger, Fontaine, Fogarty, Meskanaen, maybe adding Lundkvist, Virta. Ahl vets are needed but as supporting players not as key guys, the just mail it in half way through. A coaching change might also be there needed there as well.

If AHL vets with NHL experience aren't playing key roles, the team will never make the playoffs. The AHL is a quality league, not some Traverse-type tournament. Every year in the summer everyone assumes Hartford will be great because people just presume (without saying so) that every prospect will hit his prime ceiling down there, but every year Hartford is a disaster. Who's joining the Pack next year? Maybe Barron, maybe Kravtsov. I doubt Barron becomes an immediate difference-maker for the Pack, and Kratsov will go through the usual pains that every teenager goes through in the AHL (see: Andersson, Lias). And if Kravtsov will have an easy time making the transition to North America, he'll probably be in the NHL before the calendar year is over, so won't be much help for the Pack. Meanwhile, with the likely departure of Hayes, MZA, McLeod, maybe Nieves, there's a good shot that Lias and Vinni move up to the Garden. I don't see how replacing Vinni and Lias with Barron and Kravtsov (or some combination of 2 of those 4) changes anything.

Sure some prospects will improve, but how much can they improve without getting called up to what is likely to be another nonplayoff team? Some 4A presence is needed to give the kids pro playoff experience.

 

[Mikos87]

Kreider had 23 pts in 48 games in the AHL as a 22 y/o.

And he floated for weeks at a time. I saw plenty of HFD during the last lockout. His play in HFD was not a testament to his ability at all.

 

[Rongomania]

And he floated for weeks at a time. I saw plenty of HFD during the last lockout. His play in HFD was not a testament to his ability at all.

He actually, I feel, did what Lias is more than likely doing. Sulking because he knows he belongs in the show; has the brain for the game.

Kreider jumped into a hot team in the POs and looked good - I’d love to see Lias inserted into the 2011(?) rangers playoff lineup fresh. I think we’d see just as good if not better results (all around game wise) from Lias.

Strange, but kind of makes sense comparison.

 

[Matz03]

If AHL vets with NHL experience aren't playing key roles, the team will never make the playoffs. The AHL is a quality league, not some Traverse-type tournament. Every year in the summer everyone assumes Hartford will be great because people just presume (without saying so) that every prospect will hit his prime ceiling down there, but every year Hartford is a disaster. Who's joining the Pack next year? Maybe Barron, maybe Kravtsov. I doubt Barron becomes an immediate difference-maker for the Pack, and Kratsov will go through the usual pains that every teenager goes through in the AHL (see: Andersson, Lias). And if Kravtsov will have an easy time making the transition to North America, he'll probably be in the NHL before the calendar year is over, so won't be much help for the Pack. Meanwhile, with the likely departure of Hayes, MZA, McLeod, maybe Nieves, there's a good shot that Lias and Vinni move up to the Garden. I don't see how replacing Vinni and Lias with Barron and Kravtsov (or some combination of 2 of those 4) changes anything.

Sure some prospects will improve, but how much can they improve without getting called up to what is likely to be another nonplayoff team? Some 4A presence is needed to give the kids pro playoff experience.

Yeah I get that you can't ice a Traverse roster and expect to win, never said they should ditch all the vets. You got Holland, Lettieri leading the way and that's all good, but I want to see more bluechip prospects added with continued growth from the likes of Meskanen, Andersson, Gettinger, Fontaine, Hajek etc. When you're relying on 3-4 ahl vets to take you to the playoffs then you're going to fail. These guys don't have much to play for so you keep seeing these cold streaks like we've seen from Butler, Schneider, Mezenek etc. Hopefully, they can add a couple more decent pieces thru trades, maybe swap a lefty D for a right or a young forward. Add a good young goalie to the mix, like a Demchenko or Huska. The better AHL teams out there are co-led by a mixture of ahl vets and real prospects.

 

[nyr2k2]

Their lines are idiotic.

Brickley-Holland-Meskanen--Brickley should not touch a first line
Andersson-Lettieri-Fontaine--three natural centers, and the most important one not playing there
Gettinger-Fogarty-Butler--I guess this is fine
Gropp-Leedahl-O'Donnell--a line with no centers, two guys who have no offense, one guy who should but sucks

Gilmour-Lindgren--Lindgren on his off side so Gilmour can play rover
Bigras-Hajek--Hajek on his off side when Bigras has lots of experience playing RD
O'Gara-Tolkinen--who cares

Crawley and Day were scratched.

Maybe they're not idiotic but man sometimes this team just looks horrible.

 

[NYR Viper]

I was listening to Leafs lunch earlier today and the guest brought up an interesting point about the AHL. Sometimes teams place players in positions where they can work on certain aspects of their games or limit their ice time because they have them in very rigorous conditioning and weight training regimens off the ice. Specifically for younger players who play in the AHL. A lot of that stuff doesn't come out to the media as there isn't much coverage but he said it does happen regularly.

I wonder if the Rangers are hoping Andersson works on board battles more and creating offense below the goal line. Or perhaps they have him doing some very rigorous physical conditioning off ice so they are trying to limit the amount he needs to skate in a game. It could also be part of the reason why he has looked lethargic. This is not to say he is out of shape, just that they may want him to become more explosive

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Lias realy looking like one of those Malhotra type picks: very early draftee because he's close to ready to play on a bad NHL team, but really not a ton of potential. Teams hype their early picks and fans jump on board because it's exciting to see a teenager even get a cup of coffee in the NHL, but so far I'm not seeing anything that looks like a future NHL second liner. Fast was a superior player at the same age in a league that is at least as good as the AHL, maybe better.

Let's see what next season brings, maybe there's a breakthrough of some sort.

I think you are mixing up Fast's D+2 and D+3 seasons here

 

[nyr2k2]

Hartford is playing. They were up 2-0 early but gave it right back and Tokarski got the hook after facing just six shots. 2-2 after 2.

1. Fogarty from Lettieri and Gropp
2. Gropp unassisted

Beleskey-Holland-Butler
Gropp-Fogarty-Lettieri
Gettinger-Andersson-Fontaine
Brickley-O'Donnell-Meskanen (poor Mesk)

Can't tell which line is the first or the third, honestly.

Lindgren-O'Gara
Hajek-Bigras
Gilmour-Tolkinen

As mentioned earlier, Tokarski started but now it's Mazanec.