Hart Trophy Talk: MacKinnon, Malkin, Kucherov the Early Favorites, Scoring at Highest Rates By Far.

[hotcabbagesoup]

And this coming from a Sharks fan...

I don't really mean it., I hate the Kings but those two deserve it.

I heard that @DDRhockey was a big Doughty fan so I was hoping for a juicy quoteable about how valuable Doughty is to LA. Doughty is totally underrated this year.

 

[Devils090]

Alright, that’s fair. Does that explain how Hall is more valuable than Kopitar, though? I’d argue that Kopitar contributes more on ice defensively than Hall.

Defensively obviously Kopitar is much more important, but in terms of overall team success I really can’t say Kopitar beats out Hall. I mean the 3 games Hall missed a few months ago the Devils lost all 3, they got shut out twice one of those being by the Red Wings

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Malkin has played over 50% of his even strength minutes with Kessel, and almost all of his PP time with both Kessel and Crosby.

More games than not, Kessel has been on a separate line from Malkin this year. Sullivan iced them together when he’s desperate or in 6v5 ES situations.

Crosby like I said also has his own seperate line, don’t know what PP has to do with my comment?

 

[McFlyingV]

More games than not, Kessel has been on a separate line from Malkin this year. Sullivan iced them together when he’s desperate or in 6v5 ES situations.

Crosby like I said also has his own seperate line, don’t know what PP has to do with my comment?

Because he's played the majority of his minutes with either Kessel or Kessel and Crosby. He's definitely received a lot more support than a guy like Hall or Kopitar imo. To build on that, if you're looking at the player most valuable to their respective team there's a huge gap between Hall and Hischier vs. Malkin and Crosby/Kessel.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Because he's played the majority of his minutes with either Kessel or Kessel and Crosby. He's definitely received a lot more support than a guy like Hall or Kopitar imo.

Malkin’s also definitely been the better player than both.

 

[McFlyingV]

He’s also definitely been the better player than both.

McDavid's been better than all 3 of them, but that doesn't mean he's going to win the Hart.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

McDavid's been better than all 3 of them, but that doesn't mean he's going to win the Hart.

McDavid isn’t winning the Hart because he’s out of the playoff race, unlike the 3 aforementioned players.

 

[Devils090]

Malkin’s also definitely been the better player than both.

Hart isn’t about who’s better, friend.

 

[McFlyingV]

McDavid isn’t winning the Hart because he’s out of the playoff race, unlike the 3 aforementioned players.

Thats true, but the award doesn't usually go to simply the player who has been the best on a playoff team. It goes to the player who has been most valuable in getting his team to the playoffs. Pittsburgh for example probably makes playoffs just fine even if Malkin missed half the year to injury. Could the same be said about the Devils or the Kings with Kopitar or Hall? I doubt it.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Thats true, but the award doesn't usually go to simply the player who has been the best on a playoff team. It goes to the player who has been most valuable in getting his team to the playoffs. Pittsburgh for example probably makes playoffs just fine even if Malkin missed half the year to injury. Could the same be said about the Devils or the Kings with Kopitar or Hall? I doubt it.

It goes to the most valuable player to his team, period. Do the Pens have home ice without Malkin? Do the Bolts have the division without Kucherov? These things define value to a team as well, otherwise we would never see the Hart go to a player on a top 3 team in the league, as they’d likely make the playoffs without said player anyway.

 

[HenrikW]

Anze Kopitar is playing 2.30 minutes per game shorthanded on the leagues best PK. He 's +30 points ahead of his 2nd player. If Avs doesn't make it to the playoffs I can't see how this Hart discussion is not about Kucherov or Kopitar

How is Malkin a prime candidate over Kopitar? He has been great but so has Kessel and Crosby. He's hardly as important to his team. Ofc his stats are better, look at Penguins powerplay.

If Avs makes the playoffs this is MacKinnon's to win. If they don't, why would he deserve more votes then McDavid? Lets be honest if you can't take your team into the playoffs you can hardly be called the leagues MVP unless you severely destroy the rest of the league Lemieux-style.

 

[Satire]

Avs make playoffs and my vote goes to MacK. If they don't and NJ does it goes to Hall. If neither make it I would probably vote for Kopitar.

 

[ovikovy817]

If Colorado and NJD miss the playoffs, it would open the road for Ovi.
But on the other hand I want the Caps to play against NJD in round 1

 

[bob27]

"Chocking" seems like a poor term here. Avs were barely hanging on to a playoff spot for a long time and now they are barely out.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Huh?

They think since that HART winner has a Norris caliber player on their team, they dont deserve the HART.

Apparently, to win the HART you should be playing with all AHLers

 

[Bank Shot]

They think since that HART winner has a Norris caliber player on their team, they dont deserve the HART.

Apparently, to win the HART you should be playing with all AHLers

Its the Goldilocks award. Best player on a borderline playoff team.

No one else need apply.

 

[Iceman]

Meh year for this Trophy no matter who wins.

 

[The Panther]

They think since that HART winner has a Norris caliber player on their team, they dont deserve the HART.

Apparently, to win the HART you should be playing with all AHLers

Ah.

That is funny.

For the less historically-inclined, here are some examples of Hart winners/Norris winners on the same teams:

1956 - Jean Beliveau / Doug Harvey
1961 - Bernie Geoffrion / Doug Harvey
1965 - Bobby Hull / Pierre Pilote
1969 - Phil Esposito / Bobby Orr
1974 - Phil Esposito / Bobby Orr
1977 - Guy Lafleur / Larry Robinson
1979 - Bryan Trottier / Denis Potvin
1985 - Wayne Gretzky / Paul Coffey
1986 - Wayne Gretzky / Paul Coffey
1992 - Mark Messier / Brian Leetch

But I note that it hasn't happened (I think) since 1992, which explains why the younger crowd thinks it's strange.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

MacKinnon should win it because he practically did it all by himself. Hall should also be nominated.

Rantanen has a ****load more points than Hischier

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

MacKinnon should win it because he practically did it all by himself. Hall should also be nominated.

Did what? Pulling a Flames when the time matters? If that is your weird criteria then it is McDavids ainec.

Hall is a great canadate, as is Kopitar if it isn't your criteria. MgGinnon missing the playoffs and getting the hart has no case for having a bigger impact than McDavid on the Oilers.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

K u c h

 

[ThePhoenixx]

They think since that HART winner has a Norris caliber player on their team, they dont deserve the HART.

Apparently, to win the HART you should be playing with all AHLers

No...according to some that's McDavid and they don't want him to win either.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Ah.

That is funny.

For the less historically-inclined, here are some examples of Hart winners/Norris winners on the same teams:

1956 - Jean Beliveau / Doug Harvey
1961 - Bernie Geoffrion / Doug Harvey
1965 - Bobby Hull / Pierre Pilote
1969 - Phil Esposito / Bobby Orr
1974 - Phil Esposito / Bobby Orr
1977 - Guy Lafleur / Larry Robinson
1979 - Bryan Trottier / Denis Potvin
1985 - Wayne Gretzky / Paul Coffey
1986 - Wayne Gretzky / Paul Coffey
1992 - Mark Messier / Brian Leetch

But I note that it hasn't happened (I think) since 1992, which explains why the younger crowd thinks it's strange.

The McYounger crowd?

 

[Perfect_Drug]

It strangely seems like blind hatred for all things Oilers is making up for a hardened line in the sand of "no playoffs / no Hart".

Thus making further mental gymnastics to validate why they don't want to award McDavid kind of funny to watch.

Watching the McKinnon for Hart crowd pull random arbitrary justifications is hilarious.

OV over McDavid?? Really? Is that's what the narrative is now? There'a a plausible chance McDavid steals the Rocket from him. McD will end up in 3rd place for the Rocket at the worst. You guys absolutely sure Ovechkins 2 extra goals is good enough reason to award him the Hart and leaving McD off the ballot entirely?

 

[The Jones Zone]

Injury or fatigue, but I just have not seen the explosive Mackinnon that I watched for the majority of the season over the past 3-4 games, he's just a step slow compared to his usual self lately

jmo