Proposal: Habs taking your garbages

[ole ole]

Weber with ~$9m in salary remaining now. Have yet to see a confirmation that insurance is paying that, if so that would leave the acquiring team on the hook for $3.6m in cash. So if I'm Arizona, to take on Weber's contract my ask would be approximately:

a) If not insured, Montreal 2023 1st and 3rd plus 2022 2nd.

b) If Insured, Montreal 2022 2nd and 2023 2nd.


Note: acquiring Weber doesn't increase the acquiring team's free cap space.

Why would the Habs give anything to get rid of Weber? He's on LTIR and from what i understand [ correct me if i'm wrong ] we get Weber's cap hit and turn it into cap relief.

Canadiens Could Spend More in the Offseason
If Weber is going to miss the entire season with his injuries and will be placed on LTIR, then Canadiens general manager (GM) Marc Bergevin will have some more money to spend in the offseason.

With Weber on LTIR, his cap hit will remain, but the Canadiens will get relief in the amount of Weber’s cap hit or average annual value (AAV), which is $7.8 million.

If true than the only thing that Weber { LTIR } is hurting is the Insurance Company.
He gets paid and we get cap relief = to hit cap hit.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Yeah, I don't think it is s an altruistic offer.

 

[Hunter368]

Why would the Habs give anything to get rid of Weber? He's on LTIR and from what i understand [ correct me if i'm wrong ] we get Weber's cap hit and turn it into cap relief.

Canadiens Could Spend More in the Offseason
If Weber is going to miss the entire season with his injuries and will be placed on LTIR, then Canadiens general manager (GM) Marc Bergevin will have some more money to spend in the offseason.

With Weber on LTIR, his cap hit will remain, but the Canadiens will get relief in the amount of Weber’s cap hit or average annual value (AAV), which is $7.8 million.

If true than the only thing that Weber { LTIR } is hurting is the Insurance Company.
He gets paid and we get cap relief = to hit cap hit.

Ill defer to @mouser on it he’s very knowledgeable on it.

But my understanding is that each team needs to be under the cap, including LTIR cap hits at the start of the season (can’t remember the exact date). Then after that LTIR kicks in and creates cap space. So while you do get that cap space it does hinder you bc you have to be under cap at start of season. So often not many good guys remain unsigned past that date, more just plugs left over.

 

[ole ole]

Ill defer to @mouser on it he’s very knowledgeable on it.

But my understanding is that each team needs to be under the cap, including LTIR cap hits at the start of the season (can’t remember the exact date). Then after that LTIR kicks in and creates cap space. So while you do get that cap space it does hinder you bc you have to be under cap at start of season. So often not many good guys remain unsigned past that date, more just plugs left over.

Thanks but wow i found it even worst.


It seems it Depends on how much we are over the cap at the start of the seasons determines on how much cap relief we can get.
Maybe Web might retire.
If a team cannot be cap compliant on opening day without using LTIR, the LTIR Pool is the amount the team exceeds the Cap. For example, if a team is $3M over the Cap and places a player on LTIR with a $4M Cap Hit for the opening roster submission, the LTIR Pool is the $3M that the team exceeded the cap

 

[mouser]

Why would the Habs give anything to get rid of Weber? He's on LTIR and from what i understand [ correct me if i'm wrong ] we get Weber's cap hit and turn it into cap relief.

Canadiens Could Spend More in the Offseason
If Weber is going to miss the entire season with his injuries and will be placed on LTIR, then Canadiens general manager (GM) Marc Bergevin will have some more money to spend in the offseason.

With Weber on LTIR, his cap hit will remain, but the Canadiens will get relief in the amount of Weber’s cap hit or average annual value (AAV), which is $7.8 million.

If true than the only thing that Weber { LTIR } is hurting is the Insurance Company.
He gets paid and we get cap relief = to hit cap hit.

It’s a lot more complicated. Insurance is either covering 0% or 60% of Weber’s contract.

There are also downsides to using LTIR—it’s not a complete get out of jail free card.

The most notable two downsides are:
a) Any earned Performance Bonuses automatically carry over to the next season, reducing cap space.

b) Teams using LTIR don’t accumulate cap space and contracts they acquire (e,g, at the trade deadline) are not pro-rated.

 

[glenbuis]

Weber with ~$9m in salary remaining now. Have yet to see a confirmation that insurance is paying that, if so that would leave the acquiring team on the hook for $3.6m in cash. So if I'm Arizona, to take on Weber's contract my ask would be approximately:

a) If not insured, Montreal 2023 1st and 3rd plus 2022 2nd.

b) If Insured, Montreal 2022 2nd and 2023 2nd.


Note: acquiring Weber doesn't increase the acquiring team's free cap space.

in the event weber was to retire , say to take up a management post , nashville will still be on the hook for the cap recapture fees are they not ?

 

[mouser]

in the event weber was to retire , say to take up a management post , nashville will still be on the hook for the cap recapture fees are they not ?

Yup

 

[Soundgarden]

in the event weber was to retire , say to take up a management post , nashville will still be on the hook for the cap recapture fees are they not ?

yes but the penalty has been reduced since the contract was given out.

 

[Stubu]

Must... resist... the obvious "garbage" from Canes...

 

[tsujimoto74]

yes but the penalty has been reduced since the contract was given out.

The penalty was introduced after the contract was given out. It's been reduced from its completely absurd initial assessment, though.

 

[glenbuis]

yes but the penalty has been reduced since the contract was given out.

yes it can't be more than the average of the contract so their still looking at 7.8 million for potentially 3-4 years . the reduction didn't amount to much

 

[Soundgarden]

yes it can't be more than the average of the contract so their still looking at 7.8 million for potentially 3-4 years . the reduction didn't amount to much

It absolutely did, Nashville would have been on the hook for 24M in one year before it was changed.

 

[glenbuis]

It absolutely did, Nashville would have been on the hook for 24M in one year before it was changed.

i'm predicting they'll be hit with 7.8 for three years so that'll make it easier

 

[DiglettDangles]

Weber with ~$9m in salary remaining now. Have yet to see a confirmation that insurance is paying that, if so that would leave the acquiring team on the hook for $3.6m in cash. So if I'm Arizona, to take on Weber's contract my ask would be approximately:

a) If not insured, Montreal 2023 1st and 3rd plus 2022 2nd.

b) If Insured, Montreal 2022 2nd and 2023 2nd.


Note: acquiring Weber doesn't increase the acquiring team's free cap space.

I'm not going to go too rough on you because you're a quality poster, but the bolded is not going to happen lol.
Also if the contract is insured, there's zero incentive for Montreal to move him so you can discard b). Montreal is rich so 40% of whatever's left is peanuts.

 

[Habs Halifax]

in the event weber was to retire , say to take up a management post , nashville will still be on the hook for the cap recapture fees are they not ?

Salary drops to $3M next year ($6M this year). Would be interesting if he retires cause he wants to try management out. Maybe that makes more sense after next year when his salary drops to $1M?

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm not going to go too rough on you because you're a quality poster, but the bolded is not going to happen lol.
Also if the contract is insured, there's zero incentive for Montreal to move him so you can discard b). Montreal is rich so 40% of whatever's left is peanuts.

Agreed. If the Habs end up moving Weber cause it's not insured and it's a money thing, it will be a massive attack on Molson who owns a team that generates a lot of money.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Weber with ~$9m in salary remaining now. Have yet to see a confirmation that insurance is paying that, if so that would leave the acquiring team on the hook for $3.6m in cash. So if I'm Arizona, to take on Weber's contract my ask would be approximately:

a) If not insured, Montreal 2023 1st and 3rd plus 2022 2nd.

b) If Insured, Montreal 2022 2nd and 2023 2nd.


Note: acquiring Weber doesn't increase the acquiring team's free cap space.

Why would the Coyotes do that when they have money problems and are looking to build a new arena? Because it helps them reach the cap floor?

Also, Habs are not going to move Weber because of money (possible contract not insured).

I don't see this as a developing story. Not sure where it came from

 

[Habs Halifax]

We should have space with all the injuries. Specially Weber, Price, Petry, Edmundson.

It would be complicated to nail down because I think Weber was put on LTIR before the season started (not after)? It affects accrued cap space but how deep does it go when a guy like Price is also on LTIR? Or was Price put on LTIR and Weber was not moved to LTIR until after the season? . Either way, we were over the cap with any LTIR contracts and it affects our accrued cap space.

Right now, Cap Friendly has the Habs with $7M of cap space but $0M of projected cap space. Go figure. It's complicated to nail down as fans in this situation

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

You could have John Moore for a bag of pucks,
Thanks

 

[Gaud]

Weber with ~$9m in salary remaining now. Have yet to see a confirmation that insurance is paying that, if so that would leave the acquiring team on the hook for $3.6m in cash. So if I'm Arizona, to take on Weber's contract my ask would be approximately:

a) If not insured, Montreal 2023 1st and 3rd plus 2022 2nd.

b) If Insured, Montreal 2022 2nd and 2023 2nd.


Note: acquiring Weber doesn't increase the acquiring team's free cap space.

thanks for the info, but the scenario i was discussing is that apparently there are cases where a team would want an LTIR player and that this would benefit the habs, as opposed to having to pay to get rid of said player.

Also, my understanding of LTIR is that it doesn't free space on the cap, it gives you extra room over the cap instead, up to the totality of the salary, minus the available capspace. Say you have someone on LTIR with a contract of 4M. if you have a cap of 82M and you are 1-4 M over the cap, the cap remains 82. If inversely you have the same contract but 10M in space on the cap, it does nothing. So it could be beneficial to a team tht is over the cap or anticipating to be, with a big signature. Of course, the team owner still pays the contract; it's just that parts (or all) of it dont count on the total

Had to check a few places, bu this sums it up well: Long Term Injured Reserve (LTIR) - High Level Overview | Puckpedia

ha I asked for clarification on how this situation would be useful, but i have kind of answered my own questions in answering you

 

[jfhabs]

It would be complicated to nail down because I think Weber was put on LTIR before the season started (not after)? It affects accrued cap space but how deep does it go when a guy like Price is also on LTIR? Or was Price put on LTIR and Weber was not moved to LTIR until after the season? . Either way, we were over the cap with any LTIR contracts and it affects our accrued cap space.

Right now, Cap Friendly has the Habs with $7M of cap space but $0M of projected cap space. Go figure. It's complicated to nail down as fans in this situation

Yes absolutely, you need to be specialized in the CBA to nail it down. However with the insane amount of injuries to high salary players outside of Weber, you'd think we have a decent amount. Price 10.5, Byron 3.4 and Edmondsun 3.5 all still haven't played a game this year. Then you add Petry 6.25, Anderson 5.5, Dvorak 4.45, Toffoli 4.25, Armia 3.4 and Perreault 0.95 all out since early-mid december.

On cap friendly I see the same as you as far as cap relief available. If they retroactively put some of these guys on LTIR, I think this number might go much higher. Not sure if there's a limit.

 

[mouser]

thanks for the info, but the scenario i was discussing is that apparently there are cases where a team would want an LTIR player and that this would benefit the habs, as opposed to having to pay to get rid of said player.

Also, my understanding of LTIR is that it doesn't free space on the cap, it gives you extra room over the cap instead, up to the totality of the salary, minus the available capspace. Say you have someone on LTIR with a contract of 4M. if you have a cap of 82M and you are 1-4 M over the cap, the cap remains 82. If inversely you have the same contract but 10M in space on the cap, it does nothing. So it could be beneficial to a team tht is over the cap or anticipating to be, with a big signature. Of course, the team owner still pays the contract; it's just that parts (or all) of it dont count on the total

Had to check a few places, bu this sums it up well: Long Term Injured Reserve (LTIR) - High Level Overview | Puckpedia

ha I asked for clarification on how this situation would be useful, but i have kind of answered my own questions in answering you

It's not beneficial. The important detail to remember here is Weber's cap hit doesn't disappear on LTIR. So yes, any team that trades for Weber can potentially exceed the cap by $7.8m. However the team has also increased their cap usage by Weber's $7.8m contract.

So the net gain in free cap space for any team that acquired Weber would be $7.8m contract - $7.8m LTIR relief = $0 additional free cap space.

 

[mouser]

It would be complicated to nail down because I think Weber was put on LTIR before the season started (not after)? It affects accrued cap space but how deep does it go when a guy like Price is also on LTIR? Or was Price put on LTIR and Weber was not moved to LTIR until after the season? . Either way, we were over the cap with any LTIR contracts and it affects our accrued cap space.

Right now, Cap Friendly has the Habs with $7M of cap space but $0M of projected cap space. Go figure. It's complicated to nail down as fans in this situation

Teams don't accrue cap space when using LTIR. Their available cap space is the amount of space left in the LTIR pool and nothing pro-rates. Which is why CF currently shows Montreal with $7.19m in current space and projected to $7.19m at the trade deadline.

The "Projected Cap Space" of $0 refers to end of season accounting. Teams using LTIR are over the cap, hence no accumulated space for the end of season. This means that all Performance Bonuses earned by Suzuki, Romanov, Caufield or any other players this season will be charged against the 2022-23 cap.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Canadiens Could Spend More in the Offseason
If Weber is going to miss the entire season with his injuries and will be placed on LTIR, then Canadiens general manager (GM) Marc Bergevin will have some more money to spend in the offseason.

Marc Bergevin's offseason spending days are over.

 

[ole ole]

Marc Bergevin's offseason spending days are over.

That statement i quoted was before MB was gone.