Post-Game Talk: Habs beat the Vancouver Petterssons

[salbutera]

Hopefully he finds consistency. That’s how you have a successful team

FYI, this guy was an ok player for Habs, lots of criticism about lacking consistency, until he wasn’t overnight after being traded….

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

The inability to see something doesn't mean it's not there...

I mean Dach really had a great Golf season. It's just that i don't see anything worth without him on the icing the 2nd line. Clearly not his chair playing in a top 6

 

[le_sean]

There's a difference between being disappointed a player hasn't played to the levels expected, and their actual impact level. I think you are conflating the two.

While not the be all end all, Dach is the 4th most used forward (of 19 that have played) by the coaching staff this season. If anything, better than 1/2 is a gross understatement

Wow 4th most used forward but worst +\- by double the amount and 7th in points. He should be proud.

Imagine using TOI as an indicator of use to a team when that player, who provides ZERO value defensively, was on pace for 30 points.

The only thing his TOI indicates is that he is seen as slightly better than Christian Dvorak.

 

[Miller Time]

Most 10 goals scorer but only 2 20 goals scorer. And will most likely finish the season with just 2 20 goals scorers yet again just like the last 2 seasons.

2.94 g/gp, 16th in NHL

Last year - 2.83 g/gp, 26th
2 years ago - 2.77 g/go, 26th

So empirically, we are considerably better at scoring goals that the last 2 seasons.

This is the problem with emotional takes not grounded in reality...

When I say lack of depth, this applies across the board. No 2nd line like you said. A good 4th line does not make up for the deficiencies across the other 2 lines.

Sure. I think we agree in principle. I just don't agree with your description of this as a "depth" issue.

Wether or not depth makes up for a lack of top end talent is a very different question. 100% agree that top end talent is more important than depth when it comes to winning a cup, but, depth is an important factor... Especially in building a long term contender.

Top 6th depth & roster depth are two different things, I think the nuance is more than semantics.

Struble, Savard and Xhekaj are bottom pair guys at best. Yet again lack of depth (Hutson and Matheson need to play a lot).

Those 3 aren't, or shouldn't be, top 4 dmen right now... Agreed.

And, they are as good or better than the bottom pairing options on most of the playoff team rosters.

Good depth, mediocre top 4

Wow 4th most used forward but worst +\- by double the amount and 7th in points. He should be proud.

I doubt it. He's likely harder on himself than the peanut gallery

Imagine using TOI as an indicator of use to a team when that player, who provides ZERO value defensively, was on pace for 30 points.

I guess you've never played or coached high level sport...

Might want to do some research and broaden your understanding of sport

The only thing his TOI indicates is that he is seen as slightly better than Christian Dvorak.

No, the only thing it definitively indicates is how much time he spent on the ice.

Newsflash - the game is played on the ice

 

[le_sean]

Newsflash - the game is played on the ice

Yeah the game is played on the ice. And he was absolute dogshit for 95% of the time he was on it

 

[Miller Time]

I mean Dach really had a great Golf season. It's just that i don't see anything worth without him on the icing the 2nd line. Clearly not his chair playing in a top 6

Agree fully that he has not been an effective top 6 contributor.

Might well be one of the least impactful top 6 forward in the league this year.

And, our alternative options are worse... thats the problem with having ~20M tied up in the likes of Dvo, Anderson, Gally, Armia.

If we had 2-3 legit top 6 players instead of those 4, the 2nd line concerns wouldn't be a concern.

Yeah the game is played on the ice. And he was absolute dogshit for 95% of the time he was on it

Better than the alternative... At least that's the assessment made by the coaching staff (and by this observer.) as evidenced by ... Ice time

That you can't understand that is fascinating.

 

[Nicko999]

2.94 g/gp, 16th in NHL

Last year - 2.83 g/gp, 26th
2 years ago - 2.77 g/go, 26th

So empirically, we are considerably better at scoring goals that the last 2 seasons.

This is the problem with emotional takes not grounded in reality...

The increase in scoring has a lot to do with Suzuki and Caufield improving. The emergence of Hutson is also huge.
Scoring outside of these 2 however is just as non-existent this year. I do believe it will get better next year with Demidov and that's where the team can aspire to take the next level.

Agree with everything else.

 

[Miller Time]

The increase in scoring has a lot to do with Suzuki and Caufield improving. The emergence of Hutson is also huge.

Actually, CC & Suzuki are currently accounting for 2.4% fewer of goals scored by the Habs this year compared to last, despite the team scoring increasing significantly...

Scoring outside of these 2 however is just as non-existent this year.

Factually incorrect

 

[tazsub3]

Just like the past 3 years basically, if Suzuki's line does not score, the team goes nowhere.
3 goals by the 3 players on that line today.
Zero Depth.

what a surprise, a rebuilding team with most of their recent drafted players not in the nhl yet has no depth ...
Actually i will correct myself and say, the depth we sort of have, it is a full 2nd line we dont.
As if we had a second line , a player like dach and newhook would be on third line and they good players for a third line

 

[Nicko999]

Actually, CC & Suzuki are currently accounting for 2.4% fewer of goals scored by the Habs this year compared to last, despite the team scoring increasing significantly...


Factually incorrect

Actually I ran the numbers and here are the % of goals scored by those 2.

22-23: 50/227... 22.0%
23-24: 59/232... 25.4%
24-25: 52/188... 27.7%

We see the percentage increase in the last few years. It's a result of them getting better and the bottom guys stagnating for the most part with some exceptions here and there.
For now, it's fine as we are still a rebuilding team after all. If after Bergevin's garbage is gone we are still so dependent on those 2, then that would be more worrying.

 

[Miller Time]

Actually I ran the numbers and here are the % of goals scored by those 2.

22-23: 50/227... 22.0%

23-24: 59/232... 25.4%

Suzuki - 33 goals
Caufield - 28 goals

33+28 = 61

61/232 = 26.2%

Not sure where you got your numbers?

24-25: 52/188... 27.7%

Yup.

So 1.5% greater, not 2.4% less... I had the wrong goals total for this year, my bad.

Nevertheless, 1.5% goals share increase vs a team increase of 10% more goals per game still suggests that team scoring is up considerably more than their respective goal share.

We see the percentage increase in the last few years. It's a result of them getting better and the bottom guys stagnating for the most part with some exceptions here and there.

Disagree.
They are getting better, yes, but so is our overall roster. The jump from worst in the league to WC contention through 64 games is because the team as a whole is improving.

For now, it's fine as we are still a rebuilding team after all. If after Bergevin's garbage is gone we are still so dependent on those 2, then that would be more worrying.

Being "dependent" on your top two players isn't that much of an anomaly, it's true of many rosters.

What makes teams more resilient to that dependence is the quality of their depth... Something the current regime understands and is building the roster & cap situation with in mind.

 

[Nicko999]

Suzuki - 33 goals
Caufield - 28 goals

33+28 = 61

61/232 = 26.2%

Not sure where you got your numbers?

My bad, I used hockey reference page and took adjusted goals total instead real.

Anyway, I agree the team has improved as we had no player of Hutson's caliber in the back end in past years. He's responsible for a lot of extra pts this year and would say he's already our 3rd best player.
Building up that depth is a work in progress like you said and it will take time.