Proposal: Habs - Avs, Habs — Bruins

[ole ole]

Didn't we already do this? Because here's my reply from last time.



Any chance you have an answer for any of my questions yet? Any explanation for why the greatest goalie since Roy can't even outperform Dubnyk, other than trying to pretend that Montreal is drastically worse than Minnesota and San Jose were with Dubnyk?

How about trying to answer my question.
Why would team Canada's management take a goalie who can't outperform Dubnyk, and want him as their starter?

 

[ole ole]

comical is the sniping of the sample size to defend his stature as an elite goaltender and his trade value. on the other hand i remember the trade demand threads for price created by habs fans during the 19/20 and 20/21 regular seasons.

just because a few habs fans ignore the big picture of carey price's body of work over the full last four seasons, his age, his cap hit (retained or not), his term, his off-season surgery and his current installment in the nhlpa player assistance program, you can't expect everybody else to ignore it as well. without price playing above average hockey for at least 40 regular season and/or play-off games, he has NO trade value. if he really comes back strong, you might find a taker at the 2023 trade deadline.

Ya no trade value. Price retained at 50 % would start a bidding war from many team.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

How about trying to answer my question.
Why would team Canada's management take a goalie who can't outperform Dubnyk, and want him as their starter?

Because, over a short tournament where there are zero salary cap concerns and you can just pick players without giving up assets for them, it's a lot easier to look at only his peak talent level than it is when you're being asked to give up a large return of futures for the privilege of paying him $5.25m for the next four (hopefully) 82 game NHL seasons. You may also notice that Team Canada is waiting for Price to be healthy before making a decision.

Now, why can't the great Carey Price outperform Dubnyk over a ~170+ game sample despite being on similar quality teams?

 

[flyfysher]

Don't worry, we prefer to trade Price to the Oilers at 50% anyways.

Look at all of the Oilers fans lining up and bombarding HH with offers for Price at 50%!!!

 

[ole ole]

Because, over a short tournament where there are zero salary cap concerns and you can just pick players without giving up assets for them, it's a lot easier to look at only his peak talent level than it is when you're being asked to give up a large return of futures for the privilege of paying him $5.25m for the next four (hopefully) 82 game NHL seasons. You may also notice that Team Canada is waiting for Price to be healthy before making a decision.

Now, why can't the great Carey Price outperform Dubnyk over a ~170+ game sample despite being on similar quality teams?

So because it's a short tournament/ zero salary cap concerns /Don't have to give up assets you believe that the reason that Team Canada's Management wants Price as their starter.

And here i thought Teams Canada's management would be looking for who they think would be the best players available.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

So because it's a short tournament/ zero salary cap concerns /Don't have to give up assets you believe that the reason that Team Canada's Management wants Price as their starter.

Is that really what you understood from what I said? Or are you just building a strawman because you don't want to answer the question about Price and Dubnyk?

 

[TBF1972]

I wouldn't expect that in exchange for Price. I know some Hab fans want to shoot the moon but I don't think that's realistic at all.

As for why The Avs should, I don't know if they should. I was just saying its not all doom and gloom. Price, if healthy, can still put a contender over the top and at 50% is still valuable.

because of his body work i assume:

2007/08	41g	2.56	0.92	PLAYOFFS	11g	2.78	0.901	2nd round loss as #1 seed
2008/09	52g	2.83	0.905	PLAYOFFS	4g	4.11	0.878	1st round loss as #8 seed
2009/10	41g	2.77	0.912	PLAYOFFS	4g	3.56	0.89	1st round loss as #8 seed
2010/11	72g	2.35	0.923	PLAYOFFS	7g	2.11	0.934	1st round loss as #6 seed
2011/12	65g	2.43	0.916	PLAYOFFS	DNQ
2012/13	39g	2.59	0.905	PLAYOFFS	4g	3.26	0.894	1st round loss as #2 seed
2013/14	59g	2.31	0.927	PLAYOFFS	12g	2.36	0.919	conference finals loss as #3 seed
2014/15	66g	1.96	0.933	PLAYOFFS	12g	2.23	0.92	2nd round loss as #1 seed
2015/16	12g	2.06	0.934	PLAYOFFS	DNQ
2016/17	62g	2.23	0.923	PLAYOFFS	6g	1.86	0.933	1st round loss as #1 seed
2017/18	49g	3.11	0.9	PLAYOFFS	DNQ
2018/19	66g	2.49	0.918	PLAYOFFS	DNQ
2019/20	58g	2.79	0.909	PLAYOFFS	10	1.78	0.936	1st round loss as #12 seed
2020/21	25g	2.64	0.901	PLAYOFFS	22	2.27	0.924	stanely cup final loss as #N4 seed

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

last year was the first instance his team clearly outperformed the expected result in the playoffs.

 

[TBF1972]

Ya no trade value. Price retained at 50 % would start a bidding war from many team.

today - no chance at all.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Even though there is no evidence this is even on the table
2022/23 - 25/26
Cap hit @ 50% = $5.25m
Real Cash @ 50% = $15.625m

Ignoring the value of Price the player @ 50%, which most everyone agrees has good-very good value (1st + A prospect at minimum)

How much more does Montreal charge to retain?
How much does Team X charge to retain as the middle man?

That has to be factored in the return unless you want to surmise Montreal retains just to free up the contract spot and $5.25m in cap space. (The cash is not an issue for MTL clearly)

That was the point of the post Bud
The established cost of cap space in the last few years makes the "value" of Price's positive impact not worth the squeeze for most teams with a Kuemper caliber goalie

1) I don't think most agree that a healthy Price at 50% retention and taking back 1/2 cap dumps is good value in a trade. Your 1st and A prospect is close to what I think. But lets not pretend that most think that way. Evidence is plastered over several threads. There is a fair amount of devalue narratives going on. Reality

2) Prices AAV and salary structure if traded with 50% retention:

Age 34 (this season if traded at the deadline):
* $11M signing bonus already paid by the Habs last July
* $2M base salary prorated would be about $500k
* 50% retention ($5.25M) prorated would be about $1M Cap Hit for his new team

Age 35:
* $3.375M signing bonus to be paid summer of 22 (both the Habs and his new team)
* $500k base salary for the rest of that season (both the Habs and his new team)
* 50% retention ($5.25M) Cap Hit for both team (both the Habs and his new team)

Age 36:
* $3.25M signing bonus to be paid summer of 23 (both the Habs and his new team)
* $1M base salary for the rest of that season (both the Habs and his new team)
* 50% retention ($5.25M) Cap Hit (both the Habs and his new team)

Age 37 & 38:
* $2.75M signing bonus to be paid summer of 24 and 25 (both the Habs and his new team)
* $M base salary for the rest of that season (both the Habs and his new team)
* 50% retention ($5.25M) Cap Hit (both the Habs and his new team)

The conversation here is do you believe in a Healthy Price and his ability to hold value from age 34-38 according to a $5.25M cap hit. Said it before and will say it again, If Price was a UFA this summer, he's getting 3/4 year offers at $5.25M no doubt in my mind. So you can say yeah, you can do that but you get him without a futures cost and that's legit but lets not pretend there are going to be goalie's like Price available like he is a dime a dozen either.

 

[Le Tricolore]

Ok, enough of this thread.