Post-Game Talk: Habs 3, Pens 2 - To Me It Looks Like Monkeys Trying to Hump A Football

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yep. It's a shame. Sprong's absolutely ready for top-9 minutes right now. There will be obvious growing pains as he adjusts and develops, but he's got the skill and head on his shoulders to be an impact NHLer right now.

Instead, we put him on the 4th line with Kevin "Who the **** is this guy" Porter and give him <10min. a night.

I was staunchly behind giving Sprong his nine games, and believed he'd be here to stay, but this team has done everything in its power to **** up the decision to give him a shot. All they had to do was not let him waste away on the 4th line with little-to-no ice time. Hell, I was advocating 3rd line minutes/responsibility. Yet here we are...

But don't worry. Johnston's top notch at in-game adjustments, defensive structure, and has a knack for playing/getting the most out of young guys.

Larkin has taken 59 shifts almost all with Z, while Sprong has taken 36 almost entirely on the fourth line.

It's the Pens. Really, it's our fault for hoping they would do this right.

Oh well, at least they are winning and blowing up the red light.

 

[IcedCapp]

Do you think it's that last bit or strict guidelines imposed by the powers that be? I'm heavily inclined to think it's the latter. Doesn't make Johnston a good coach, but coaches care about winning games. Granted sometimes the long play for a coach is to keep your stars happy, but overall the point I'm making is that I don't know if it's possible for someone to come in here and have carte blanche as far as what to do with the team. I am pretty confident our eighteen GMs and also our execs have a distinct influence on certain things that happen on the ice (or don't).

you HAVE to fire the GMs. Actually, I don't care if JR stays or goes, but everyone else in the organization has to go.

 

[KIRK]

Do you think it's that last bit or strict guidelines imposed by the powers that be? I'm heavily inclined to think it's the latter. Doesn't make Johnston a good coach, but coaches care about winning games. Granted sometimes the long play for a coach is to keep your stars happy, but overall the point I'm making is that I don't know if it's possible for someone to come in here and have carte blanche as far as what to do with the team. I am pretty confident our eighteen GMs and also our execs have a distinct influence on certain things that happen on the ice (or don't).

I am pretty confident that our 18 GM's and other execs have neutered Johnston.

I am pretty confident that Johnston's instincts suck anyway, as evidenced by what he does systemically and how he deals with young players.

I also am pretty confident that the single most ****** up thing about this organization is that their approach to keeping their stars happy, rather than to build, run, and coach a team designed to leverage what they do best and thus enhance the team's chances of winning, is to divine and act on what they think Sid and Geno would want if, as players, they were prima donnas (dare I say like one of the team's owners was in his playing days when it came to influencing management and coaching).

 

[Pancakes]

you HAVE to fire the GMs. Actually, I don't care if JR stays or goes, but everyone else in the organization has to go.

Mario and Burkle are trying to sell the team. They're not going to fire anybody. The only way they do that is if they think JR/MJ's actions are hurting the valuation of the team, and even then they'd have to weigh that against a potential buyer being scared off by them doing another mass purge of personnel.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Larkin has taken 59 shifts almost all with Z, while Sprong has taken 36 almost entirely on the fourth line.

It's the Pens. Really, it's our fault for hoping they would do this right.

Oh well, at least they are winning and blowing up the red light.

If they take a clean loss tomorrow night I think we will see some crazy ****, whether it makes sense or not. Going 0-5 at the hands of Toronto would have to be the tipping point. I really believe that. If I'm wrong on the changes well, MJ deserves to go even more obviously than before. If I'm wrong on the firing, they'll get what they deserve this year. You simply can't have zero points after 5 games.

 

[IcedCapp]

Mario and Burkle are trying to sell the team. They're not going to fire anybody. The only way they do that is if they think JR/MJ's actions are hurting the valuation of the team, and even then they'd have to weigh that against a potential buyer being scared off by them doing another mass purge of personnel.

i'm just saying that nothing really changes until you change the top. That the team is for sale is good, as much as i love Mario.

 

[KIRK]

theoretically, that's what Jacques Martin should be doing

But will they let him act on it when/if the time comes?

you HAVE to fire the GMs. Actually, I don't care if JR stays or goes, but everyone else in the organization has to go.

That's even more improbable than actually letting Martin coach if he replaces Johnston.

i'm just saying that nothing really changes until you change the top. That the team is for sale is good, as much as i love Mario.

 

[Pancakes]

If they take a clean loss tomorrow night I think we will see some crazy ****, whether it makes sense or not. Going 0-5 at the hands of Toronto would have to be the tipping point. I really believe that. If I'm wrong on the changes well, MJ deserves to go even more obviously than before. If I'm wrong on the firing, they'll get what they deserve this year. You simply can't have zero points after 5 games.

I don't think we'll go 0-5. We'll probably win one of these next two games, and all will be declared roses, because that's how the Pens work.

Meanwhile in the longer term the Pens will continue to not win the majority of their games and eventually a change will be made with MJ in November or Dec, but by then it will be too late to salvage this season.

 

[IcedCapp]

<Jim Rutherford calls a press conference>

"I'd like to announce that today I've fired every member of the Penguins' FO, other than myself and IcedCapp's source. I'll start conducti..."

<Just then David Morehouse rushes from behind a curtain and hits Rutherford with a steel chair>

"Wh...why David?"

<Morehouse rips off his face, exposing... BILLY GUERIN>

"IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, PITTSBURGH"

 

[KIRK]

<Jim Rutherford calls a press conference>

"I'd like to announce that today I've fired every member of the Penguins' FO, other than myself and IcedCapp's source. I'll start conducti..."

<Just then David Morehouse rushes from behind a curtain and hits Rutherford with a steel chair>

"Wh...why David?"

<Morehouse rips off his face, exposing... BILLY GUERIN>

"IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, PITTSBURGH"

deleted

 

[Riptide]

Glad to see that the D TOI is finally starting to get to where it should be.

Maatta: 19:17 (18:21 EV)
Scuderi: 15:03 (13:27 EV)
Dumoulin: 15:36 (15:36 EV)
Lovejoy: 18:59 (17:23 EV)
Cole: 21:46 (21:13 EV)
Letang: 26:40 (24:12 EV)

That said, I again thought Scuderi (other than one real bonehead move) played a decent game. Same goes for Dumoulin. He's looking better and better each game. We play Ottawa and Toronto next. Those - especially Ottawa are fast teams. I could perhaps see Clendening getting a chance instead of Scuderi. OR running 7D and sitting Sprong or Porter.

Also, I want to see less of the 4th line - and that's not a knock on them. Porter, Sprong and Cullen did a great job (more or less) lastnight. Might not be scoring, but they frequently controlled play in the other end. But I do not really feel that the line as a whole is a real threat to score. Bonino, Bennett and Plotnikov were again playing well tonight. Them getting 12, 13 & 9 mins of EV isn't enough. And part of that only came when MJ started mixing up the lines after loading up on the top line. So I'd like to see whomever is 'going' (Sprong or whomever) moved up to the 3rd line, then see them get more minutes - especially in a game like lastnight where there were very few penalties (2 aside - 1 of which basically cancelled the other out).

Happy to see Perron get more minutes. I think him getting some consistent icetime with Malkin will only help both.

 

[mpp9]

Whoever is buying the team cant be viewing this as much of an investment. The team could very well be out of the playoff picture in a few years. I would hope their mindset is championship or bust and they'll clear house to do it.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

you HAVE to fire the GMs. Actually, I don't care if JR stays or goes, but everyone else in the organization has to go.

Agreed. And not just hockey ops, everyone from CEO on down. Unfortunately ownership won't do it and I don't see a sale any time soon. It's time for an organizational colonic.

I'd hang on to Bales though, considering MAF's turnaround.

 

[KIRK]

Whoever is buying the team cant be viewing this as much of an investment. The team could very well be out of the playoff picture in a few years. I would hope their mindset is championship or bust and they'll clear house to do it.

That's the reply to the 'they won't fire the coach before they sell the team' argument.

If the hockey media is rife with stories about the team's struggles, if fans are booing in increasing numbers, and if your big cash register and little cash register keep looking like this, then it makes the team much harder to sell than replacing a coach who makes all of this inevitable.

 

[drpepper]

This is not players "not competing" or "not playing hard enough" or "not buying in" or "not being held accountable" or any other non-descript ********. This isn't really even about bad players in the line-up when all of the "good" players are also struggling.

This is stupid hockey. There is not a single aspect of systems that Johnston and the coaching staff has installed that looks NHL viable. Everything - forecheck, backcheck, puck retrieval, zone defense, offensive zone structure, neutral zone structure, zone entries, zone exits, face-off plays, penalty kill, power play - is below standards.

On top of that Johnston continues to make really ****ing stupid roster decisions and deployment.

 

[KIRK]

This is not players "not competing" or "not playing hard enough" or "not buying in" or "not being held accountable" or any other non-descript ********. This isn't really even about bad players in the line-up when all of the "good" players are also struggling.

This is stupid hockey. There is not a single aspect of systems that Johnston and the coaching staff has installed that looks NHL viable. Everything - forecheck, backcheck, puck retrieval, zone defense, offensive zone structure, neutral zone structure, zone entries, zone exits, face-off plays, penalty kill, power play - is below standards.

On top of that Johnston continues to make really ****ing stupid roster decisions and deployment.

There's a fine line between players not working hard enough and players being put into a position that no matter how hard they work, they're ******. I don't know where it is, but they definitely crossed it with Johnston sometime last season.

 

[IcedCapp]

Looks like somebody threw away a perfectly good white boy.

I'm glad someone else saw this movie. It was on AMC recently. I still have it recorded. I love that movie.

 

[IcedCapp]

This is not players "not competing" or "not playing hard enough" or "not buying in" or "not being held accountable" or any other non-descript ********. This isn't really even about bad players in the line-up when all of the "good" players are also struggling.

This is stupid hockey. There is not a single aspect of systems that Johnston and the coaching staff has installed that looks NHL viable. Everything - forecheck, backcheck, puck retrieval, zone defense, offensive zone structure, neutral zone structure, zone entries, zone exits, face-off plays, penalty kill, power play - is below standards.

On top of that Johnston continues to make really ****ing stupid roster decisions and deployment.

Yes.

 

[Pancakes]

There's a fine line between players not working hard enough and players being put into a position that no matter how hard they work, they're ******. I don't know where it is, but they definitely crossed it with Johnston sometime last season.

Pretty much. It happened under Therrien too. After a while his system was so stifling for our offensive players that even though they tried hard for him it just wasn't happening.

I don't think JR is nearly as patient as Shero was. He won't stand by and watch the Pens crash and burn. If it's still like this after a few more games I'd be shocked if Johnston isn't gone.

 

[sauce66871]

Whoever is buying the team cant be viewing this as much of an investment. The team could very well be out of the playoff picture in a few years. I would hope their mindset is championship or bust and they'll clear house to do it.

Few years? I've noticed a negative trend since last season, Since January 2015, we are sporting a 20-21-7 record 47/96 points, that's sub .500 hockey. Not looking too good whatever the problem may be, it's not heading in the right direction.

Heard someone say, it looks like the more cemented Johnston's system becomes the worse they look.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Whoever is buying the team cant be viewing this as much of an investment. The team could very well be out of the playoff picture in a few years. I would hope their mindset is championship or bust and they'll clear house to do it.

A few years? That's being kind considering we almost didn't make it last year (8th place everyone) and we're already behind, with a roster that has big concerns.

 

[drpepper]

There's a fine line between players not working hard enough and players being put into a position that no matter how hard they work, they're ******. I don't know where it is, but they definitely crossed it with Johnston sometime last season.

The distinction between players aren't executing to players can't execute is a fine line. There is also a distinction between players working hard and players working effectively.

In terms of players aren't executing, I thought the players could have done better with is receiving passes. There were a lot of tape to tape passes attempted that jumped off the receiving player's sticks. Crosby, Kunitz and Kessel in particular seemed to struggle.

In terms of players can't execute, zone exits, zone entries, and the neutral zone structure seem to be major areas of concern.

EDIT: I also think these past few games exemplify why I think Johnston's obsession with conditioning in practice is stupid. Use practice time to work on zone entries, zone exit, etc with game-like conditions. Use it to work on passing and chemistry with game-like conditions. Don't use it for bag skates.

 

[IcedCapp]

if THIS top-6 CAN'T execute your system, then your system sucks. There is no way this group of players CAN'T execute it, but your system is brilliant.

 

[mpp9]

A few years? That's being kind considering we almost didn't make it last year (8th place everyone) and we're already behind, with a roster that has big concerns.

Alright negative nancies. Out of the playoff picture. You think we're not competing for a playoff spot in the next 2-3 years?

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I don't think we'll go 0-5. We'll probably win one of these next two games, and all will be declared roses, because that's how the Pens work.

Meanwhile in the longer term the Pens will continue to not win the majority of their games and eventually a change will be made with MJ in November or Dec, but by then it will be too late to salvage this season.

The only reason they won't right now is law of averages, which isn't a bad argument but it's a distinct possibility from what I see.

I have to laugh because any dumbass yinzer or Penguin lackey would tell you that we're clearly a better team than Ottawa, yet nothing could be further from the truth at the moment, and technically it wasn't the case last year. Also Toronto will work hard and skate, which is the death nell for this team.