Post-Game Talk: Habs 3, Pens 2 - To Me It Looks Like Monkeys Trying to Hump A Football

[StutzlesTapeJob]

i've been very hard on the pens for a few seasons now. And while i overall don't like the direction, i thought last night was miles away a better effort than the previous two games. We actually played hockey for extended portions last night, i just happen to think montreal - as a team playing their system - is pretty good.

What i liked:

+ Crosby. Giving him a plus for the effort and battle level. we dont pay him for that, but he took the steps to get himself and his line going. He had multiple effective hits on the forecheck and controlled the puck low in the zone. god remember when that was 75% of his game and how effective it was? (side note- i miss dupuis as sick as it is to say that, because he seems to force crosby into that cycle game)

+ Bennet: Tons of confidence and really maturing into his big frame. He actually looked difficult to handle at times and showed a lot more shooting power than i had noticed before.

+ 3rd and 4th lines. Some less than stellar shifts. But overall it looked like 2 3rd lines. If we ever played a good system and brand of hockey, 4 line depth could be huge for us. We have the speed and skill to stay very fresh and just keep coming at teams.

- Letang. Such great skating and skill. but play defense. You can't be wildcard 100% of the time. It often looks like we have too many D joining the play and clogging our own lanes. Letang is very guilty there.

+ Emelin and eye brows 67 - love a player who throws clean hard hits at the blue line, and can line up elite forwards. nothing dirty. Just good hard play. Max Pac is so complete and such a competitor.

- Coaching. i will say i think the hard skate worked. Everyone came out harder this game and battled harder. However, some lines and players were clearly more effective than others. How many plays did kunitz 1 handed stick slap into a turn over because the wheels aren't there. BB, Donino, Sprong, Porter all deserved more time. the 2nd line and kunitz deserved less. At some point good coaches get the players who are "on" that game more time.

- Consol crowd. I beat up on the team for not doing anything to cheer about. But in the first period crosby...CROSBY had multiple shifts where he took the body hard. so did Perron and BB. Very little response from the crowd. We still look like ass overall, and the good vibes aren't there. But in another city, the effort sid showed would have gotten more support.

 

[tinkezione]

In this situation, I can honestly say the team has never given MJ the chance like they gave Bylsma. They busted their ass playing a system that was flawed under DB and never gave up on him like they gave up on MT and MJ. It's impressive. I thought MJ and MT both made more sense, from a schematic point of view, but you see the team actually giving up on the ice.

Why did they never do that for DB?

The difference is that these young folks lacked Stanley Cup and they got that under Bylsma's tenure. Can't underplay the value of that.

MJ doesn't seem to hold folks accountable as mistakes and sloppy playing never accounts to any sort of corrective actions for anyone else but bottom-6er or a junior.

 

[Will Hunting]

i've been very hard on the pens for a few seasons now. And while i overall don't like the direction, i thought last night was miles away a better effort than the previous two games. We actually played hockey for extended portions last night, i just happen to think montreal - as a team playing their system - is pretty good.

What i liked:

+ Crosby. Giving him a plus for the effort and battle level. we dont pay him for that, but he took the steps to get himself and his line going. He had multiple effective hits on the forecheck and controlled the puck low in the zone. god remember when that was 75% of his game and how effective it was? (side note- i miss dupuis as sick as it is to say that, because he seems to force crosby into that cycle game)

+ Bennet: Tons of confidence and really maturing into his big frame. He actually looked difficult to handle at times and showed a lot more shooting power than i had noticed before.

+ 3rd and 4th lines. Some less than stellar shifts. But overall it looked like 2 3rd lines. If we ever played a good system and brand of hockey, 4 line depth could be huge for us. We have the speed and skill to stay very fresh and just keep coming at teams.

- Letang. Such great skating and skill. but play defense. You can't be wildcard 100% of the time. It often looks like we have too many D joining the play and clogging our own lanes. Letang is very guilty there.

+ Emelin and eye brows 67 - love a player who throws clean hard hits at the blue line, and can line up elite forwards. nothing dirty. Just good hard play. Max Pac is so complete and such a competitor.

- Coaching. i will say i think the hard skate worked. Everyone came out harder this game and battled harder. However, some lines and players were clearly more effective than others. How many plays did kunitz 1 handed stick slap into a turn over because the wheels aren't there. BB, Donino, Sprong, Porter all deserved more time. the 2nd line and kunitz deserved less. At some point good coaches get the players who are "on" that game more time.

- Consol crowd. I beat up on the team for not doing anything to cheer about. But in the first period crosby...CROSBY had multiple shifts where he took the body hard. so did Perron and BB. Very little response from the crowd. We still look like ass overall, and the good vibes aren't there. But in another city, the effort sid showed would have gotten more support.

Crosby is a "plus" and Letang is a "minus" ? I mean, I love both, but c´mon.. that looks just weird. I wish that Crosby had the compete level of Letang these days. He just doesn´t have it now. Same goes for Malkin. Can´t defend the superstars anymore. I mean, there are some legit excuses, but the bottom line is that they HAVE TO play better than this.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I just don't understand why they can't play like the 2nd period yesterday more often. That is what makes it worse, they show glimpses of not sucking and then they just go back to sucking. This team looks worse right now than the Pens in February 2009 before Therrien got fired.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I just don't understand why they can't play like the 2nd period yesterday more often. That is what makes it worse, they show glimpses of not sucking and then they just go back to sucking. This team looks worse right now than the Pens in February 2009 before Therrien got fired.

Bombulie put it perfectly.
They are having a heck of time at both blue lines.
Pretty hard to sustain O-zone pressure with those 2 obstacles. Zone entries, clean breakouts.
Not to mention, the chemistry not looking right in the top 6.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

i've been very hard on the pens for a few seasons now. And while i overall don't like the direction, i thought last night was miles away a better effort than the previous two games. We actually played hockey for extended portions last night, i just happen to think montreal - as a team playing their system - is pretty good.

What i liked:

+ Crosby. Giving him a plus for the effort and battle level. we dont pay him for that, but he took the steps to get himself and his line going. He had multiple effective hits on the forecheck and controlled the puck low in the zone. god remember when that was 75% of his game and how effective it was? (side note- i miss dupuis as sick as it is to say that, because he seems to force crosby into that cycle game)

+ Bennet: Tons of confidence and really maturing into his big frame. He actually looked difficult to handle at times and showed a lot more shooting power than i had noticed before.

+ 3rd and 4th lines. Some less than stellar shifts. But overall it looked like 2 3rd lines. If we ever played a good system and brand of hockey, 4 line depth could be huge for us. We have the speed and skill to stay very fresh and just keep coming at teams.

- Letang. Such great skating and skill. but play defense. You can't be wildcard 100% of the time. It often looks like we have too many D joining the play and clogging our own lanes. Letang is very guilty there.

+ Emelin and eye brows 67 - love a player who throws clean hard hits at the blue line, and can line up elite forwards. nothing dirty. Just good hard play. Max Pac is so complete and such a competitor.

- Coaching. i will say i think the hard skate worked. Everyone came out harder this game and battled harder. However, some lines and players were clearly more effective than others. How many plays did kunitz 1 handed stick slap into a turn over because the wheels aren't there. BB, Donino, Sprong, Porter all deserved more time. the 2nd line and kunitz deserved less. At some point good coaches get the players who are "on" that game more time.

- Consol crowd. I beat up on the team for not doing anything to cheer about. But in the first period crosby...CROSBY had multiple shifts where he took the body hard. so did Perron and BB. Very little response from the crowd. We still look like ass overall, and the good vibes aren't there. But in another city, the effort sid showed would have gotten more support.

We definitely watched a different game.

 

[WayneSid9987]

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

definitely been a concern of mine, which I've posted a few times to much... displeasure around these parts, where it's Norris or bust, apparently.

Yeah, it is kind of crazy that people expected him to jump right back to where he was.

They won't. The old two niner was calling for Clendening in for Dumoulin next game. Of course that's one media dude, but that's the way the Pens think.

For the love of God...

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you our new interim head coach.

reminds me of a movie from the 80s or 90s, Men at Work, with Sheen and Esteves, and they are talking about Hopeless "less than hope"

i can't find a clip

Looks like somebody threw away a perfectly good white boy.

In this situation, I can honestly say the team has never given MJ the chance like they gave Bylsma. They busted their ass playing a system that was flawed under DB and never gave up on him like they gave up on MT and MJ. It's impressive. I thought MJ and MT both made more sense, from a schematic point of view, but you see the team actually giving up on the ice.

Why did they never do that for DB?

I think they had it out for MJ from the beginning because he replaced the golden boy. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some guys in the room undermining him.

Not that I'm defending MJ but the guys on the ice obviously share the blame.

 

[DegenX]

Our zone entries have been a problem because every other team knows we're terrible at dumping it in and going to get it. They pressure the puck carrier and stand up everyone on the blue line. What we end up with is what we have - terrible drop passes resulting in turnovers and an inability to gain any offensive zone time.

While i personally think our passing was much better tonight as opposed to the previous two games, we're still not anywhere respectable. Way too many moments where we had the puck on our D's sticks without any movement at all. I watched numerous situations where we just stood there with the puck looking for stretch passes instead of just skating.

Our penalty killing so far is also way off system wise compared to last year. We're just sitting back and letting opponents dictate the play to us. Last year we were in other teams faces and taking away space, much like every team is doing to us right now. It's just too easy right now when we're down a man.

I'm not going to defend MJ or his system but it's predicated on our defense getting the puck to our forwards. We have two starters back there that are unable to do this. We all see it so i'm going to assume he must as well. The fact that he's not making changes leads me to believe he's not being allowed to. If that's the case then we have a problem and i believe we do.

None of that is as a big a problem as our top two lines though. You need players that compliment each other. Who is the forward that can get on the boards and work the cycle on either line? We have the net front presence as well as the playmaker/perimeter player but we're lacking that bruiser that will cause problems for other teams on the boards. Our 3rd line has all of this which is why they're been our best line since Plots was dropped there.

I've wondered about how much control HCMJ has myself. Is he being told he has to play Lovejoy on the second pairing, because Billy G told his agent that's what would happen at the time of the trade? That Kunitz has to play with Crosby? That Scuderi has to be dressed?

Ultimately, though, it's on HCMJ.

If he isn't being told to do these things and he's not adjusting, then he should be fired.

If he is being told to do things that obviously aren't working but he's doing it to keep his job ... at some point, he's got to see it won't matter if he was just following orders. He'll be the scapegoat for the team's woes, and his reputation takes a hit. It's at the point where he either goes to them and says 'See, I tried it your way. It isn't working. Can I coach this team my way, now?' ... or he just says '**** it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't' and just does it his way.

Either way, something's got to give.

 

[chethejet]

What system isn't predicated on the D men getting the puck to the forwards? this nonsense that Johnston has a gimme system that gives players options and works if implemented is stupid. The time D men have to retrieve the puck with a hard forecheck is seconds. Under most circumstances the first pass is what is open. Sucderi can't get a pass out of his own end anymore. This is absurd. Pens need to put shots on net and use rebounds to score. The forwards have to gain the prime space and compete. BB is the player I envisioned when he is healthy and matures. Cant understand how so many wouldn't or didn't see the underlying ability. MJ has to go early if he can't get adjusted to the reality of the NHL. For me I bring in Randy Carlyle as he was in a bad situation in Toronto. Tough minded and a cup winner. Likes physical play and want a team that brings it. That is exactly what this franchise needs. No more Mr Softee.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Let's talk about Sprong...

Kid was avg at Pens rookie camp.... played a little nervous at the rookie tourney but was building some confidence... got to camp and his confidence grew and he started holding the puck more and doing his thing...

Now he is being dicked around. It's the Penguins way.

You know it's a ****ed situation when company men Steigy and Caufield are openly questioning his usage.

When you give a young kid who has nine games to make an impression 8-10 shifts a game, he is going to try and do too much in that limited time. He isn't even getting regular fourth line minutes...

This is a clinic on how you wreck a young kids confidence.

Yet Larkin is up in Det playing very well, on a line with Z and being fed minutes...

This org is so dysfunctional and it is no more evident than how they deal with their young kids.

Hey now! Roll out the red carpet for Scuds and Kunitz and get back honky cat.

 

[StutzlesTapeJob]

The results weren't there so pluses i gave were relative.

I love letang's effort. But it needs to be applied better. Right now it looks like his involvement in all areas of the ice means some other combination of players need to be thinking about covering for him or reacting. Other times he is joining rushes and filling in space that should be left open for a better cross ice pass or for the puck carrier to cut to the middle for. It turns our triangle rush (puck carrier, trailer, off wing drive) into a peculiar box with no space to work in.

There were many more minus players and aspects to call out. But they are known. I was happy to see progress in some areas i was keyed in on.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Bombulie put it perfectly.
They are having a heck of time at both blue lines.
Pretty hard to sustain O-zone pressure with those 2 obstacles. Zone entries, clean breakouts.
Not to mention, the chemistry not looking right in the top 6.

You've got to think these issues: struggling to enter the offensive zone, and struggling to keep anyone out of the defensive zone, are systematic. There is no way a team with this many skilled players at forward and defense should be unable to move the puck. The defense are key here, and yes we have Scuderi, but we also have Letang, Maatta, Cole, Dumoulin and to an extent Lovejoy who can and in the past have moved the puck well. On preventing zone entry, the forcheck isn't effectively doing anything except to provide convenient paths through which to advance the puck.

The more I watch this team in the Mike Johnston era, the more I think the book has been published on his system and coaches now know how to beat it. It worked early on when it was new and coaches hadn't seen it, and maybe junior teams dont have the cohesion and discipline to attack it, but it isn't working at the NHL level anymore. The Pens had a far better record against teams that hadn't seen them yet than they did against teams that were familiar with them, especially division teams.

I miss Dan, and that hurts to type.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Feel like I remember him beating Price cleanly last season, too.

 

[Jacob]

The more I watch this team in the Mike Johnston era, the more I think the book has been published on his system

Literally.

 

[KIRK]

In this situation, I can honestly say the team has never given MJ the chance like they gave Bylsma. They busted their ass playing a system that was flawed under DB and never gave up on him like they gave up on MT and MJ. It's impressive. I thought MJ and MT both made more sense, from a schematic point of view, but you see the team actually giving up on the ice.

Why did they never do that for DB?

Right or wrong, if you're a coach of DB's or MJ's pedigree, you've got to earn the good will. The cup earned DB a lot of good will. What did MJ do to earn it?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Let's talk about Sprong...

Kid was avg at Pens rookie camp.... played a little nervous at the rookie tourney but was building some confidence... got to camp and his confidence grew and he started holding the puck more and doing his thing...

Now he is being dicked around. It's the Penguins way.

You know it's a ****ed situation when company men Steigy and Caufield are openly questioning his usage.

When you give a young kid who has nine games to make an impression 8-10 shifts a game, he is going to try and do too much in that limited time. He isn't even getting regular fourth line minutes...

This is a clinic on how you wreck a young kids confidence.

Yet Larkin is up in Det playing very well, on a line with Z and being fed minutes...

This org is so dysfunctional and it is no more evident than how they deal with their young kids.

Hey now! Roll out the red carpet for Scuds and Kunitz and get back honky cat.

Yep. It's a shame. Sprong's absolutely ready for top-9 minutes right now. There will be obvious growing pains as he adjusts and develops, but he's got the skill and head on his shoulders to be an impact NHLer right now.

Instead, we put him on the 4th line with Kevin "Who the **** is this guy" Porter and give him <10min. a night.

I was staunchly behind giving Sprong his nine games, and believed he'd be here to stay, but this team has done everything in its power to **** up the decision to give him a shot. All they had to do was not let him waste away on the 4th line with little-to-no ice time. Hell, I was advocating 3rd line minutes/responsibility. Yet here we are...

But don't worry. Johnston's top notch at in-game adjustments, defensive structure, and has a knack for playing/getting the most out of young guys.

 

[Penguinzilla*]

That was a very deceptive shot. It looked 100% like he was shooting to Price's right side

 

[IcedCapp]

I have never seen a coach make as few in-game adjustments as Mike Johnston. Pairs, lines, tactics, whatever.

You turn on any other team in the league and they are constantly in the blender.

The Penguins have felt stale for years, but MJ has sped the process up

 

[KIRK]

Yep. It's a shame. Sprong's absolutely ready for top-9 minutes right now. There will be obvious growing pains as he adjusts and develops, but he's got the skill and head on his shoulders to be an impact NHLer right now.

Instead, we put him on the 4th line with Kevin "Who the **** is this guy" Porter and give him <10min. a night.

I was staunchly behind giving Sprong his nine games, and believed he'd be here to stay, but this team has done everything in its power to **** up the decision to give him a shot. All they had to do was not let him waste away on the 4th line with little-to-no ice time. Hell, I was advocating 3rd line minutes/responsibility. Yet here we are...

But don't worry. Johnston's top notch at in-game adjustments, defensive structure, and has a knack for playing/getting the most out of young guys.

Whether or not he's ready, he should be getting them during this cup of coffee until he proves less worthy than all of the others up there.

You know, I was thinking about MJ and his system a bit ago. Yeah, his teams in Portland were high scoring, but it was a system designed (telegraphed) for Derrick Pouliot and Joe Morrow, not a system designed for a Crosby and a Malkin.

 

[KIRK]

I have never seen a coach make as few in-game adjustments as Mike Johnston. Pairs, lines, tactics, whatever.

You turn on any other team in the league and they are constantly in the blender.

The Penguins have felt stale for years, but MJ has sped the process up

Well put.

They need a pair of outside eyes to take a fresh look at everything. But, not a MJ type. They seed someone who will be 100% immune to the preconceived notions about the what this team supposedly is and should be about.

 

[Pancakes]

The good news is if MJ does get canned our next coach will be somebody established. They won't risk another unproven coach.

The bad news is I don't see us hiring a new coach mid season. Maybe I'm wrong, but my feeling is they'd go with Jacques Martin as interim coach for the rest of the year and then do a more thorough search in the off season. I'm pretty sure he's been kept on staff as an insurance policy.

 

[Kasperi kapanen]

I hope darryl Sutter gets fired and the pens hire him. That would make me sooooooo happy.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Well put.

They need a pair of outside eyes to take a fresh look at everything. But, not a MJ type. They seed someone who will be 100% immune to the preconceived notions about the what this team supposedly is and should be about.

Do you think it's that last bit or strict guidelines imposed by the powers that be? I'm heavily inclined to think it's the latter. Doesn't make Johnston a good coach, but coaches care about winning games. Granted sometimes the long play for a coach is to keep your stars happy, but overall the point I'm making is that I don't know if it's possible for someone to come in here and have carte blanche as far as what to do with the team. I am pretty confident our eighteen GMs and also our execs have a distinct influence on certain things that happen on the ice (or don't).

 

[IcedCapp]

Well put.

They need a pair of outside eyes to take a fresh look at everything. But, not a MJ type. They seed someone who will be 100% immune to the preconceived notions about the what this team supposedly is and should be about.

theoretically, that's what Jacques Martin should be doing