LeBrun: Guentzel: Pens want prospects over picks - Carolina favorite

[Ryder71]

Maybe they are. I’m suggesting that Vancouver management would be confident they can re-sign him if they were to acquire him, just like Lou Lam was when he acquired Horvat last season without a contract in place.

I understand your premise completely.

 

[Ogelthorpe]

Honestly, I don't see the Pens winning those two more cups without JR.

I agree… but just stating the fact that JR is willing to “overpay” if he must, to get those cups.

 

[Ryder71]

I agree… but just stating the fact that JR is willing to “overpay” if he must, to get those cups.

See that's exactly what canuck fans are missing, he overpaid, but it worked out. And the Canucks are in the bidding war, we're in the drivers seat. That's somehow lost on them.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You should direct your questions to Rick Dhaliwhal as he’s the one reporting this. I however don’t see any mention of Hoglander not being available…

There are numerous people in here saying this, including a guy above you saying "it is overwhelmingly likely that Hoglander is not included in a Guentzel deal".

So which is it: are the Canucks seriously interested in Guentzel or are they not? Because you can't be "seriously interested" in Guentzel while not being willing to pay a reasonable price for him. If the Canucks are only interested in Guentzel if the cost is low, that means they're not "seriously interested" in him.

You can't simultaneously be very interested in a guy while not being willing to even pay fair price for him.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

I’d go as high

Being "seriously interested" in trading for Jake Guentzel while not being willing to pay any good assets for him is like me being "seriously interested" in losing weight as I'm eating out and drinking an 6 pack of craft beer every night.

You’ve said this multiple times already. And you’ve been repeatedly told that Willander and Lekkerimaki are not on the table. I’m not sure why any Pens fan would expect that type of return. There’s no precedent for it. If you want to ask for Hoglander and or the first then sure that can be discussed. But let’s keep it realistic.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’d go as high
You’ve said this multiple times already. And you’ve been repeatedly told that Willander and Lekkerimaki are not on the table. I’m not sure why any Pens fan would expect that type of return. If you want to ask for Hoglander and or the first then sure that can be discussed. But let’s keep it realistic.

My comments are directed towards people saying either Hoglander or the 1st wouldn't be on the table. I know that Guentzel isn't pulling off Lekkerimaki or Willander as a rental.

 

[Ryder71]

I’d go as high
You’ve said this multiple times already. And you’ve been repeatedly told that Willander and Lekkerimaki are not on the table. I’m not sure why any Pens fan would expect that type of return. There’s no precedent for it. If you want to ask for Hoglander and or the first then sure that can be discussed. But let’s keep it realistic.

Hoglander and a 1st? I've been saying that for nearly two weeks now.

 

[BWJM]

As a Canucks fan I'd rather go for Toffoli who has proven chemistry.. and will probably be cheaper.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Carolina only has the 4 centers and Kotkaniemi is having a rough go of it right now. Drury is playing on the “2nd line”. He’s not available not because he’s an untouchable based on play (44 point pace over his last 41 GP is pretty good though), but that they literally can’t afford to trade him in an unforgiving center market.

Makes sense. Would the canes do Nadeau and 2025 1st for JG @ 50%? Seems like a good deal for both sides

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Hoglander and a 1st? I've been saying that for nearly two weeks now.

I think that’s in the ballpark of what it would take but still too high imo given the Horvat return and Hoglander’s breakout this year. If the first is included I’d only offer a B type prospect, similar to what Horvat returned. If someone tops that then good on them.
Personally, my target would be Toffoli.

 

[Peter Griffin]

There are numerous people in here saying this, including a guy above you saying "it is overwhelmingly likely that Hoglander is not included in a Guentzel deal".

So which is it: are the Canucks seriously interested in Guentzel or are they not? Because you can't be "seriously interested" in Guentzel while not being willing to pay a reasonable price for him. If the Canucks are only interested in Guentzel if the cost is low, that means they're not "seriously interested" in him.

You can't simultaneously be very interested in a guy while not being willing to even pay fair price for him.

I was referring to the quote from Dhaliwhal regarding Hoglander not being mentioned.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think that’s in the ballpark of what it would take but still too high imo given the Horvat return and Hoglander’s breakout this year. If the first is included I’d only offer a B type prospect, similar to what Horvat returned. If someone tops that then good on them.
Personally, my target would be Toffoli.

Canucks 2025 1st =/= Islanders 2023 1st

The Canucks 2025 1st and a B prospect is nowhere near as good as the Horvat return.

I was referring to the quote from Dhaliwhal regarding Hoglander not being mentioned.

Yes I know, and I was adding on that people in here are also insisting that Hoglander is not available.

I just really don't understand why Canucks fans are still in this thread to talk about Guentzel when it's obvious they don't want to pay fair value for him. Frankly, I'm unsure if the Canucks can even pull off Guentzel without including both Hoglander and the 2025 1st, yet you're having Dhaliwal saying the 1st isn't an option and fans in here saying Hoglander isn't an option.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Thoughts on the possible return from Carolina? I'm less familiar with their prospect pool.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Thoughts on the possible return from Carolina? I'm less familiar with their prospect pool.

Hard to say because they're not a team that tends to trade huge assets for a rental. They have some phenomenal pieces, but they tend to not trade pieces for rentals. Nikishin, Nadeau, Morrow and Koivunen are all legit B+ or better prospects.

Nadeau and a 2024 1st would leave me pretty happy.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Yes I know, and I was adding on that people in here are also insisting that Hoglander is not available.

I just really don't understand why Canucks fans are still in this thread to talk about Guentzel when it's obvious they don't want to pay fair value for him.

I don’t understand why you’re getting so worked up over what some fans that know nothing are suggesting/saying? I mean you don’t have to respond to every single offer, do you?

BTW, I’m a Canucks’ fan and I feel I’ve been willing to offer fair value.

 

[Gurglesons]

Thoughts on the possible return from Carolina? I'm less familiar with their prospect pool.

Probably some combination of Bunting, Blake, and a 1st.

 

[SEALBound]

Nadeau and a 2024 1st would be interesting. Wonder if the Penguins take the chance and sign his brother as well.

 

[Ryder71]

See , that's the other variable to consider. Which front office do we want to partner with here? The Canes seem very conservative as to what they'd part with and are also in the division. COL, no thanks, same with DET. Sakic and Yzerman wanna fleece everyone if they can. Conversely. Vegas is a bit more generous maybe. As is VAN, FLA and EDM. That can change but currently that's how I see it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Probably some combination of Bunting, Blake, and a 1st.

I actually wasn't even aware they had another great college prospect in Blake. Yeah, that seems reasonable too.

It's absurd how good at drafting the Canes have been in recent years.

 

[Gurglesons]

I actually wasn't even aware they had another great college prospect in Blake. Yeah, that seems reasonable too.

It's absurd how good at drafting the Canes have been in recent years.

I guess.

Let's see it actually have an effect on their team.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Canucks 2025 1st =/= Islanders 2023 1st

The Canucks 2025 1st and a B prospect is nowhere near as good as the Horvat return.



Yes I know, and I was adding on that people in here are also insisting that Hoglander is not available.

I just really don't understand why Canucks fans are still in this thread to talk about Guentzel when it's obvious they don't want to pay fair value for him. Frankly, I'm unsure if the Canucks can even pull off Guentzel without including both Hoglander and the 2025 1st, yet you're having Dhaliwal saying the 1st isn't an option and fans in here saying Hoglander isn't an option.

Sure. But the gap isn’t Hoglander. A guy on track for 30 plus goals. Raty is closer imo. A lot of unreasonable expectations on both sides as I said earlier.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Canes aren’t trading A prospects and a 1st for a rental

Not are we moving a roster player, 1st and B prospect for a rental either. JG will be 30 at the start of his deal. Virtually low percentage that we would extend him for big dollars

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sure. But the gap isn’t Hoglander. A lot of unreasonable expectations on both sides as I said earlier.

It's a lot closer than what you're suggesting.

Hoglander, a B prospect and a 2025 1st for Guentzel is closer to fair value than a B prospect and a 2025 1st is. By a considerable margin. That is too much from the Canucks, it's about 2 1sts and a B prospect for Guentzel, but that's a hell of a lot closer than a late 1st next year and a B prospect.

Fair value for Guentzel is probably a late 1st and 2 2nds in value. 2 1sts and a 2nd is less of an overpayment than a 1st and a 2nd is an underpayment, by a significant margin.

Canes aren’t trading A prospects and a 1st for a rental

If your team has like 7 A prospects, why would you not be willing to trade one of them for win-now help?

 

[Ryder71]

Canes can use a finisher, that's for sure. Jake would seemingly fit in well there. Good all around player. That said I doubt the Canes pony up.

Canes aren’t trading A prospects and a 1st for a rental

I wouldn't expect you guys to. Very conservative approach over there.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Canes can use a finisher, that's for sure. Jake would seemingly fit in well there. Good all around player. That said I doubt the Canes pony up.


I wouldn't expect you guys to. Very conservative approach over there.

Others discussing Nadeau and a first or Bunting, Blake and a 1st. Not the Canes way, thankfully