Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Training Camp Begins

[SeawaterOnIce]

I'm still not sold on our defense.

I think we need another top 4 defenseman along with a reliable bottom pairing guy.

Desharnais is a good #5. Myers was decent last year but at age 34 (turning 35)....you worry about a potential drop off.

Forbort is ok as a #6 during some stretches but ideally ok as a #7.

We are absolutely screwed if Juulsen, Friedman or Wolanin get extended looks this season.

Unfortunately we've had no D prospects develop or emerge as reliable options. Woo, McWard and Hirose are all done as prospects. Mynio, Pettersson and Kudryavtsev are still years away.

 

[Josepho]

I think we are extremely likely to make a waiver claim on defence.

 

[Quinton Byfield]

I think we are fine at center and with Raty having a good camp and Aman in the fold we have depth. I think we need a really good RHD more than a LHD.

I suspect that the old thinking heads still see Myers as not-top 4 material to form this opinion.

We have no depth on LHD. On RHD, we can always split Hronek from Hughes. Myers playing lessor minutes in that case is a very good luxury to have.

By basically every metric, Myers outperformed Soucy defensively, and is more of a 5. If we were to acquire a top 4 LHD, pushing Soucy to the 3rd pairing, he has shown in the past that he can be reliable in those minutes, and also push a guy like Forbort out of the lineup.

In addition, we have an internal potential top 4 RHD incoming with Willander.

That said, I'd be open to upgrading Myers' position, but to say the pressing need is a RHD over a LHD is not based in reality at all.

 

[ohnoeszz]

^People keep referring to Soucy as a top 4 and he has not performed to that level once in his career - he has not gotten that usage.

I like Soucy a lot for his length and skating ability but do you guys not remember his hesitation then commitment into a bad pinch vs the Oilers in the playoffs leading to a goal against?

The game speeds up for him at times and while he has the skating and puck skills to be a top 4 the poise is not yet there for him to manage it.

I love Soucy as a bottom pair D but he gets very scrambly as a game gets away from him. Myers, in spite of his warts, is generally better defensively and offers more facets of the game more consistently.

Ideally we would have more rounded defensemen slotted over them, but we don't and Willander projects better to exceed them than EP2.

I agree our greatest organizational hole is cureently at 2LD as 2RD and 3C have Willander and Raty looking like projectile solutions.

 

[TruGr1t]

^People keep referring to Soucy as a top 4 and he has not performed to that level once in his career - he has not gotten that usage.

I like Soucy a lot for his length and skating ability but do you guys not remember his hesitation then commitment into a bad pinch vs the Oilers in the playoffs leading to a goal against?

The game speeds up for him at times and while he has the skating and puck skills to be a top 4 the poise is not yet there for him to manage it.

I love Soucy as a bottom pair D but he gets very scrambly as a game gets away from him. Myers, in spite of his warts, is generally better defensively and offers more facets of the game more consistently.

Ideally we would have more rounded defensemen slotted over them, but we don't and Willander projects better to exceed them than EP2.

I agree our greatest organizational hole is cureently at 2LD as 2RD and 3C have Willander and Raty looking like projectile solutions.

I mean, it’s a pretty fuzzy definition you’re using. He regularly played 17-18 mins last year. I think he’s perfectly capable of playing on a second pair with the right partner. So not sure how you’re defining “top four” but Soucy pretty much played that for us most of last season, with pretty good results when he was healthy.

 

[bandwagonesque]

I don't mind the defence. Whether or not it's a strength depends on Hronek and Soucy in my opinion, we know what we'll get from Hughes. The depth is improved from last season as well.

 

[MS]

I mean, it’s a pretty fuzzy definition you’re using. He regularly played 17-18 mins last year. I think he’s perfectly capable of playing on a second pair with the right partner. So not sure how you’re defining “top four” but Soucy pretty much played that for us most of last season, with pretty good results when he was healthy.

PP usage and the huge minutes the top pair gets really skew the TOI numbers.

Tyler Myers was our #3D last year in terms of TOI but only played 18:57/game.

Soucy and Cole kind of alternated between being the 4 and 5 guys last year and played ~18 minutes/game.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

If Ian Clark is one of the reason why Demko and other goalies kept getting injured, then he can gtfo

 

[ohnoeszz]

I mean, it’s a pretty fuzzy definition you’re using. He regularly played 17-18 mins last year. I think he’s perfectly capable of playing on a second pair with the right partner. So not sure how you’re defining “top four” but Soucy pretty much played that for us most of last season, with pretty good results when he was healthy.

Soucy was not a top 4 for us last season. Cole played more of a top 4 role than him until Zadorov came in.

Generally speaking, I'm looking at the ability to comfortably step up into a 20 minute a night player. That can be done with varying skillsets but you need to be a player that opens up the lineup for others - not one that needs the right partner/situation or it is subpar.

Soucy has not been great with increased minutes and he's not a top pker or pp guy. He contributes all over and I think he's at his best 5v5 with other players directing play.

Myers isn't all that different but he has clearly been trusted more in a greater variety of situations by past coaching staffs and this one.

I like both players alot as I've come to think its a great boon for a competitive team to have defensive elements like Soucy's range or Myers size at the bottom of the lineup but people seem to elevate Soucy and Diminish Myers.

Again, Myers functioned more as a top 4 dman last season but people want to fill a slot above him sooner than the slot above Soucy.

I'd like someone better than either player to play #3D above Soucy and push Forbort to 7D. I think there is good value in icing Myers/Desharnais as physical forces. Forbort's age cliff is close based on his skating ability.

 

[Horvat1C]

I already pencil in M. Pettersson into our defense.

 

[Vector]

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

No surprises, but good news for Abbotsford having some strong AHL defenders ready to play for them.

 

[Vector]

Ian Clark:
-would not surprise him if the Canucks give Clark permission to talk to other teams
-does not think the relationship is in a good state; thinks it's soured
-Clark wanted to keep the Director of Goaltending title
-it was Clark that said he didn't want to be on the ice every day because of injuries
-didn't expect to be named a scout
-Clark wasn't at the Canucks main training camp in Penticton (was at Young Stars Tournament)
-it was Clark's decision to stick with Silovs over DeSmith
-has two years left on his contract
-can link a lot of teams to him
-after Clark was demoted, that's when the national media started talking about Demko's workload

Demko:
-progress is being made
-still not ready to skate with the main group but is skating on his own
-is week-to-week
-expects the Canucks to start with three goalies
-Canucks not happy the specific injury got out
-doesn't have an answer as to why the Canucks are upset it got out or why they won't release it themselves

Silovs:
-doesn't imagine Silovs was thrilled with the Lankinen signing

Lankinen:
-lost leverage when training camp started
-Ducks were a team Lankinen's agent was looking at all summer

Raty:
-had a skating coach in Finland and put in the hours

Kudryavtsev:
-I know he's going to play in Abby

Alriksson:
-was challenged to a lot of fights but decline; finally got into a fight, won, then no one would challenge him anymore

 

[TruGr1t]

Soucy was not a top 4 for us last season. Cole played more of a top 4 role than him until Zadorov came in.

Generally speaking, I'm looking at the ability to comfortably step up into a 20 minute a night player. That can be done with varying skillsets but you need to be a player that opens up the lineup for others - not one that needs the right partner/situation or it is subpar.

Soucy has not been great with increased minutes and he's not a top pker or pp guy. He contributes all over and I think he's at his best 5v5 with other players directing play.

Myers isn't all that different but he has clearly been trusted more in a greater variety of situations by past coaching staffs and this one.

I like both players alot as I've come to think its a great boon for a competitive team to have defensive elements like Soucy's range or Myers size at the bottom of the lineup but people seem to elevate Soucy and Diminish Myers.

Again, Myers functioned more as a top 4 dman last season but people want to fill a slot above him sooner than the slot above Soucy.

I'd like someone better than either player to play #3D above Soucy and push Forbort to 7D. I think there is good value in icing Myers/Desharnais as physical forces. Forbort's age cliff is close based on his skating ability.

They all played basically the same minutes. The Canucks really didn't have a "top four" they had a "top pair" and a "bottom four". I expect they plan something similar this year, where Hughes-Hronek play 23-24 minutes and the rest of the guys handle 17-18 minutes.

It is difficult to accommodate another 20+ minute per night defenseman under the cap. The best bet is just to wait for Willander, as I doubt they'll have an easy time finding the cap room to accommodate what you're describing, which is really probably another #2/3 guy similar to Hronek.

 

[MS]

They all played basically the same minutes. The Canucks really didn't have a "top four" they had a "top pair" and a "bottom four". I expect they plan something similar this year, where Hughes-Hronek play 23-24 minutes and the rest of the guys handle 17-18 minutes.

It is difficult to accommodate another 20+ minute per night defenseman under the cap. The best bet is just to wait for Willander, as I doubt they'll have an easy time finding the cap room to accommodate what you're describing, which is really probably another #2/3 guy similar to Hronek.

Exactly.

When everyone was healthy Myers/Cole/Soucy/Zadorov all played very similar minutes and we essentially had two 2nd pairings.

If someone was injured, then the pairing with Juulsen or Friedman became the defacto 3rd pairing but who played with those guys varied widely.

 

[Nick Lang]

Soucy was not a top 4 for us last season. Cole played more of a top 4 role than him until Zadorov came in.

Generally speaking, I'm looking at the ability to comfortably step up into a 20 minute a night player. That can be done with varying skillsets but you need to be a player that opens up the lineup for others - not one that needs the right partner/situation or it is subpar.

Soucy has not been great with increased minutes and he's not a top pker or pp guy. He contributes all over and I think he's at his best 5v5 with other players directing play.

Myers isn't all that different but he has clearly been trusted more in a greater variety of situations by past coaching staffs and this one.

I like both players alot as I've come to think its a great boon for a competitive team to have defensive elements like Soucy's range or Myers size at the bottom of the lineup but people seem to elevate Soucy and Diminish Myers.

Again, Myers functioned more as a top 4 dman last season but people want to fill a slot above him sooner than the slot above Soucy.

I'd like someone better than either player to play #3D above Soucy and push Forbort to 7D. I think there is good value in icing Myers/Desharnais as physical forces. Forbort's age cliff is close based on his skating ability.

They all played basically the same minutes. The Canucks really didn't have a "top four" they had a "top pair" and a "bottom four". I expect they plan something similar this year, where Hughes-Hronek play 23-24 minutes and the rest of the guys handle 17-18 minutes.

It is difficult to accommodate another 20+ minute per night defenseman under the cap. The best bet is just to wait for Willander, as I doubt they'll have an easy time finding the cap room to accommodate what you're describing, which is really probably another #2/3 guy similar to Hronek.

Yup, that's what happens when you're throwing away money on buyouts and retains while tight against the cap. We have a patchwork defence by committee waiting until we can free up money to upgrade. Probably looking at a more permanent option next summer, or the year after, and a rental of some sorts this year if we are doing well enough to warrant it.

 

[Szechwan]

Vancouver has been goaltending factory ever since Luongo, how the f*** do you let Clark walk??

 

[VanJack]

I think we need another top 4 defenseman along with a reliable bottom pairing guy.

Desharnais is a good #5. Myers was decent last year but at age 34 (turning 35)....you worry about a potential drop off.

Forbort is ok as a #6 during some stretches but ideally ok as a #7.

We are absolutely screwed if Juulsen, Friedman or Wolanin get extended looks this season.

Unfortunately we've had no D prospects develop or emerge as reliable options. Woo, McWard and Hirose are all done as prospects. Mynio, Pettersson and Kudryavtsev are still years away.

You forgot about Wilander. Wouldn't shock me if he's signed once his NCAA season is done next spring and actually plays games in Vancouver in late March/early April.....He's that good.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I think we need another top 4 defenseman along with a reliable bottom pairing guy.

Desharnais is a good #5. Myers was decent last year but at age 34 (turning 35)....you worry about a potential drop off.

Forbort is ok as a #6 during some stretches but ideally ok as a #7.

We are absolutely screwed if Juulsen, Friedman or Wolanin get extended looks this season.

Unfortunately we've had no D prospects develop or emerge as reliable options. Woo, McWard and Hirose are all done as prospects. Mynio, Pettersson and Kudryavtsev are still years away.

I think you are being too pessimistic, I’m very confident that our system can make even a depth defenceman survive for a stretch

 

[Josepho]

I think you are being too pessimistic, I’m very confident that our system can make even a depth defenceman survive for a stretch

I have some concerns about the depth but Friedman is a perfectly competent bottom pairing guy. The team was 15-7-1 with him in the lineup.

 

[arttk]

I mean, it’s a pretty fuzzy definition you’re using. He regularly played 17-18 mins last year. I think he’s perfectly capable of playing on a second pair with the right partner. So not sure how you’re defining “top four” but Soucy pretty much played that for us most of last season, with pretty good results when he was healthy.

yeah, with the way how the team is setup, Hughes and Hronek are going to get like 25 min each and the rest of the bottom 4 will probably only play like 18min each.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

I have some concerns about the depth but Friedman is a perfectly competent bottom pairing guy. The team was 15-7-1 with him in the lineup.

Juulsen was totally serviceable in the regular season as well

 

[kanucks25]

You can make guys like Juulsen and Friedman work as your 6/7 types in the regular season but you need to upgrade at the deadline heading into the playoffs.

 

[Peen]

Juulsen was so bad at the end of the ssn + playoffs. Wasn’t just bleeding chances, he was a guaranteed goal or two against directly from his own errors.

 

[ohnoeszz]

They all played basically the same minutes. The Canucks really didn't have a "top four" they had a "top pair" and a "bottom four". I expect they plan something similar this year, where Hughes-Hronek play 23-24 minutes and the rest of the guys handle 17-18 minutes.

It is difficult to accommodate another 20+ minute per night defenseman under the cap. The best bet is just to wait for Willander, as I doubt they'll have an easy time finding the cap room to accommodate what you're describing, which is really probably another #2/3 guy similar to Hronek.

Sure, but that's basically my point. Soucy is not a traditional "top 4" player but for whatever reason people feel good about Soucy there and not Myers.

Again, I like both players and am happy to have them but I sense a bit of romanticizing Soucy's game while Myers has long been a scapegoat.

I agree the best long-term play is to wait for Willander but we are hoping to create deadline cap space for something - I think 2LD makes the most sense, just like when we got Zadorov.

It is tough to project what cap we'll have available to give a LD next year with Boeser still unsigned and Hoglander a wildcard. If Hoglander hits 30 goals what is the cost to keep him and can we?

I think if we can add a top 4 D worth 5-6 million longterm, we might look at moving some forwards like Heinen, Hoglander or others to make some room after the season. Marcus Pettersson is an obvious example but there's likely others out there that just haven't been considered.