Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | The Boys of Summer

[Josepho]

All of Florida/Edmonton/Dallas/Vancouver would be in rough shape if either of their top pairing guys went down, it's hardly unusual at this point.

 

[credulous]

I kind of agree with you in that the Canucks have a lot of forwards but I don't like referring to this team as a deep. The top-end forward talent is limited to about 3 players then a lot of good role-players. I don't like the defense composition but see where a top-4 two-way guy can tie the 2nd and 3rd pairing together.

the issue for me is that the canucks have too many "okay" solutions in their top 9 and if they lose what little quality they have (miller, boeser, pettersson) you go from three pretty good lines to three pretty bad lines really quick. i don't think miller thrives if he's centering debrusk and sherwood (or whoever) in the absence of boeser and i don't think heinen / pettersson / boeser with joshua / blueger / garland behind them is good enough even to be a playoff team if miller is out

they're also relying hard on debrusk and pettersson being a good duo. i have real concerns they go into the season and the forward lines are debrusk / miller / boeser, joshua / blueger / garland and some guy / pettersson / some guy

for me this team still sorely lacks another top 6 forward and a top 4 defender. they have a lot of guys who are okay or alright filling in there for a while but not a lot of guys you look at and say yeah that guy needs to be in the top 6/top 4

 

[Vector]

the issue for me is that the canucks have too many "okay" solutions in their top 9 and if they lose what little quality they have (miller, boeser, pettersson) you go from three pretty good lines to three pretty bad lines really quick. i don't think miller thrives if he's centering debrusk and sherwood (or whoever) in the absence of boeser and i don't think heinen / pettersson / boeser with joshua / blueger / garland behind them is good enough even to be a playoff team if miller is out

they're also relying hard on debrusk and pettersson being a good duo. i have real concerns they go into the season and the forward lines are debrusk / miller / boeser, joshua / blueger / garland and some guy / pettersson / some guy

for me this team still sorely lacks another top 6 forward and a top 4 defender. they have a lot of guys who are okay or alright filling in there for a while but not a lot of guys you look at and say yeah that guy needs to be in the top 6/top 4

I just don't think it's a dire problem at this point in the season. They have the roster of a playoff team and if they can toll capspace, should add a top-6 winger and top-4 defencemen like pretty much every playoff team does.

 

[MS]

the issue for me is that the canucks have too many "okay" solutions in their top 9 and if they lose what little quality they have (miller, boeser, pettersson) you go from three pretty good lines to three pretty bad lines really quick. i don't think miller thrives if he's centering debrusk and sherwood (or whoever) in the absence of boeser and i don't think heinen / pettersson / boeser with joshua / blueger / garland behind them is good enough even to be a playoff team if miller is out. they're also relying hard on debrusk and pettersson being a good duo. i also have real concerns they go into the season and the forward lines are debrusk / miller / boeser, joshua / blueger / garland and some guy / pettersson / some guy

for me this team still sorely lacks another top 6 forward and a top 4 defender. they have a lot of guys who are okay or alright filling in there for a while but not a lot of guys you look at and say yeah that guy needs to be in the top 6/top 4

But again, virtually every team is like this.

NYR won the President's Trophy last year and their 6th-leading forward scorer was the crappy Jimmy Vesey with 26 points. If Trocheck or Zibanejad got hurt, their best option to slide into a top-6 C role was .... Johnny Brodzinski and his 19 points.

 

[vancityluongo]

the issue for me is that the canucks have too many "okay" solutions in their top 9 and if they lose what little quality they have (miller, boeser, pettersson) you go from three pretty good lines to three pretty bad lines really quick. i don't think miller thrives if he's centering debrusk and sherwood (or whoever) in the absence of boeser and i don't think heinen / pettersson / boeser with joshua / blueger / garland behind them is good enough even to be a playoff team if miller is out

they're also relying hard on debrusk and pettersson being a good duo. i have real concerns they go into the season and the forward lines are debrusk / miller / boeser, joshua / blueger / garland and some guy / pettersson / some guy

for me this team still sorely lacks another top 6 forward and a top 4 defender. they have a lot of guys who are okay or alright filling in there for a while but not a lot of guys you look at and say yeah that guy needs to be in the top 6/top 4

agreed with all of this, but that's where i think the team is built really well to position for a playoff spot and then make an addition based on if they are shaping up to be a 1 maybe 2 round team or an actual bonafide cup contender.

like, i'm okay with soucy/forbort/wolanin behind hughes (literally the best ld in the league) based on how last year they just added zadorov mid-season to push all of those guys down. if that's the group heading into the playoffs, i'd either expect that one of them outperformed expectations, or we're just not a real contender, at which point it doesn't make sense to add, unless we can get a multiple season stud like sanheim (in exchange for every future asset available).

that flexibility can be utilized mid-season too, not just at the deadline. if miller goes down (with an expected playoff return) and they need someone to bridge the second line from january-april, add someone like claude giroux or brock nelson. maybe heinen/sherwood/debrusk all underpeform, but the team is rolling - add taylor hall and get ahead of the market like they did with lindholm. if washington is nowhere near the playoffs, maybe chychrun shakes loose as this year's zadorov.

idk, imo there's no need to blow the very little asset load that they have right now to make those adds, because this team as is should comfortably be in a playoff position. if they're not, go the other way, and ship boeser at the deadline, etc.

 

[credulous]

I just don't think it's a dire problem at this point in the season. They have the roster of a playoff team and if they can toll capspace, should add a top-6 winger and top-4 defencemen like pretty much every playoff team does.

maybe. i just think their specific makeup is risking a huge backslide if everything doesn't go to plan. there's zero room for error with this roster

the one thing they have going for them is the pacific looks terrible except for edmonton. vegas will probably figure something out but los angeles, anaheim, san jose and calgary all look like bad teams right now

 

[VanillaCoke]

I still don’t like the defense with Myers playing top 4 when he should be on the bottom pair and Forbert should be the extra D. They need another top 4 defenseman badly.

Agree strongly.

Show your work ....

Since when is an ofd puck mover on every pair mandatory or even necessary? Why do some ppl want that, or think it's required, which of the top contenders use that deployment?

The top pair is top three in the league.

Bottom four dmans of Soucy, Myers, Forbort & Desharnais for under ten million combined is quite solid, great value and with demko/Gonchar/Foote, is a formidable obstacle come playoffs.
Other teams number 4/5 dmans would get rinsed with Myers qoc & minutes, look no further than the next province.

List the teams with cheaper, better, bottom four/bottom pair...

(I'm not against Kylington/Schultz as luxury cheap depth, but certainly don't see any need to Phone their agents asap)

 

[God]

honestly i hated the oilers defense last season, but given the strong playoff results i was probably wrong about it.

 

[Phrasing]

Show your work ....

Since when is an ofd puck mover on every pair mandatory or even necessary? Why do some ppl want that, or think it's required, which of the top contenders use that deployment?

The top pair is top three in the league.

Bottom four dmans of Soucy, Myers, Forbort & Desharnais for under ten million combined is quite solid, great value and with demko/Gonchar/Foote, is a formidable obstacle come playoffs.
Other teams number 4/5 dmans would get rinsed with Myers qoc & minutes, look no further than the next province.

List the teams with cheaper, better, bottom four/bottom pair...

(I'm not against Kylington/Schultz as luxury cheap depth, but certainly don't see any need to Phone their agents asap)

I didn’t say ofd or puck mover. Just that Myers should ideally be bottom pair and someone else you can eat minutes better be in the top 4.

I’d say you need a dose of closer reading.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I didn’t say ofd or puck mover. Just that Myers should ideally be bottom pair and someone else you can eat minutes better be in the top 4.

I’d say you need a dose of closer reading.

Separate issues..

Show your work Myers isn't a top four defenseman.

List the teams with better top four.

List the teams with cheaper, better, bottom four/bottom pair..

 

[Phrasing]

Separate issues..

Show your work Myers isn't a top four defenseman.

List the teams with better top four.

List the teams with cheaper, better, bottom four/bottom pair..

You don’t like my opinion, offer none of your own evidence, and demand I show my work? After going on a “separate” unrelated diatribe while conflating the two?

You having a bad day? I talked about Myers specifically and Forbert relatedly. I didn’t rank top or bottom 4, just where I’d like to see each player sit ideally vs deployment.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

Every single team has an issue with depth in at least one area. Its part of a cap league.

Not a single team is deep 1-12 on F, 1-6 on D and 1-2 on G

 

[wonton15]

Every single team has an issue with depth in at least one area. Its part of a cap league.

Not a single team is deep 1-12 on F, 1-6 on D and 1-2 on G

It’s a good thing we’re even squabbling about being super deep. This team is guaranteed to make one or two big moves before the deadline, likely a top 6 scorer and/or a top 4 defenseman. Believe in PA/JR.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Don’t worry, Daniel Sprong will score 30 goals and 80 points. Quote me on it.

Our saviour has arrived.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

Don’t worry, Daniel Sprong will score 30 goals and 80 points. Quote me on it.

Our saviour has arrived.

if he doesn't. You have to French kiss me. If he does... I will French kiss you.

It’s a good thing we’re even squabbling about being super deep. This team is guaranteed to make one or two big moves before the deadline, likely a top 6 scorer and/or a top 4 defenseman. Believe in PA/JR.

The Canucks are as deep as almost anyone overall imo. They have an incredibly deep forward group and the D 1-8 is deep, just not heavy in top 4 D. Their goalie tandem is one of the best in the league.

So we are missing one top 4 D... you'd hope the depth of Myers, Forbort, Desharnais, Juulsen and Friedman will be able to make up for that amongst themselves.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

I was just looking at Dallas' line up and beyond their top line, top D pairing and starting goalie... its really not great. Their D in particular.

Edmonton is stacked at F and their top pairing D is good... the rest is blah....

Even Florida's depth on D is lacking and they lost their entire 4th line.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

i dunno how i feel about the current roster. it feels like they are betting on everything going right. i think they're a demko/hughes/miller injury away from being a very bad team given their lack of depth. they have way too many forwards who need either sheltered or very specific usage and the defense without hughes is just absolutely putrid. i don't believe in silovs as a starter (yet) if demko goes down

maybe it's right to bet on everything going right when you pretty much need that to happen to be a legit stanley cup contender anyways?

i guess with the number of nhl contracts they have signed i should still anticpate a move. i can't see them waiving pdg, aman and friedman so one of hoglander and podkolzin must be done in vancouver

I think this is just a flawed opinion we saw this team without Demko down the stretch they looked fine because they don’t need to rely on getting all star goaltending every night. People forget they were one of the top defensive team in the NHL in the second half. They now have enough depth in their line up to cover up injuries from time to time even players like Miller especially if Pettersson returns to form. That is one of the reason they brought back one of the best third line in hockey. What forward on the team needs to sheltered other than Sprong and to a lesser extend Hoglander . Players like Heinen, Suter, Joshua can basically play on any line and be effective.

 

[MS]

I was just looking at Dallas' line up and beyond their top line, top D pairing and starting goalie... its really not great. Their D in particular.

Edmonton is stacked at F and their top pairing D is good... the rest is blah....

Even Florida's depth on D is lacking and they lost their entire 4th line.

Dallas' D has taken a beating this offseason. They lost 3 of their 6 regulars from the playoffs and replaced them with Matt Dumba and Brendan Smith who are both totally washed and Ilya Lybushkin who is I guess a competent #6. They have 3 good defenders and then a pile of 6-7 guys.

 

[Vector]

Dallas' D has taken a beating this offseason. They lost 3 of their 6 regulars from the playoffs and replaced them with Matt Dumba and Brendan Smith who are both totally washed and Ilya Lybushkin who is I guess a competent #6. They have 3 good defenders and then a pile of 6-7 guys.

A couple of nights ago, I was going through the teams defensive depth charts and was weirdly surprised how poor most teams' defence is. I was really surprised that the Capitals probably have the deepest defensive corps in the league.

 

[ziploc]

I'd like to see an upgrade on the blue line too, but I think we do have a not bad set up at least in terms of pk. Forbort and Desharnais are very, very good pkers, so far as I understand it. And Myers and Soucy aren't chopped liver. Hopefully Hronek and Hughes spend zero time on the pk, and our giants fill the space with high level defensive work

 

[VanillaCoke]

You don’t like my opinion, offer none of your own evidence, and demand I show my work? After going on a “separate” unrelated diatribe while conflating the two?

You having a bad day? I talked about Myers specifically and Forbert relatedly. I didn’t rank top or bottom 4, just where I’d like to see each player sit ideally vs deployment.

Your opinions on Myers being a bottom pairing defenseman, and Forbert a seventh defenseman in the nhl, are both bad and wrong by basically every possible perspective. Both have proven abilities to handle tough minutes when healthy.
Forbert (+ Desharnais) coming into a better system/coaching will have an impact, likely the same impact we saw it have on Myers, just a few months ago.

Relatedly, the opinions our defense "badly needs" another top four, or pmd, are also bad. Every team in the league would like to add another top4D, but who and at what cost/cap?
Our current top twelve fwds, six defenseman, and goalie are solid, easily top ten if not five.

Still have time, assets, flexibility and cap space to make improvements if the opportunities arise, so I really don't see cause for complaints and would prefet someone with some to explain in detail their reasoning and solutions.

How could/can they have done better?
Just dropping myers sucks, Forbert sucks worse/ahler and team badly needs another top four dman with absolutely zero support or solution is pretty useless.

 

[MS]

A couple of nights ago, I was going through the teams defensive depth charts and was weirdly surprised how poor most teams' defence is. I was really surprised that the Capitals probably have the deepest defensive corps in the league.

I had that same moment back in about November of last year. There's this thing where if you only have 3 'legit' top-4 defenders on your team you think it's terrible and then you look around the league and ... everyone is in the same boat, or worse.

I saw your Washington comment, did a double-take and yeah ... they have to be right up there.

When we played Nashville in the playoffs - an actual good defensive team - they had a 35 y/o Ryan McDonagh as their 2D and career #6 type Jeremy Lauzon as their 4D, and everyone was healthy.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

Dallas' D has taken a beating this offseason. They lost 3 of their 6 regulars from the playoffs and replaced them with Matt Dumba and Brendan Smith who are both totally washed and Ilya Lybushkin who is I guess a competent #6. They have 3 good defenders and then a pile of 6-7 guys.

Lundkvist too who hardly played in the games he was dressed in the playoffs.

"Dallas' D has taken a beating this offseason"
I'll beat your D....

I think our D really depends on if Myers can play at the level he ended the regular season and playoffs at. He was certainly a top 4 to end the year. And I trust him with Soucy.

I had that same moment back in about November of last year. There's this thing where if you only have 3 'legit' top-4 defenders on your team you think it's terrible and then you look around the league and ... everyone is in the same boat, or worse.

I saw your Washington comment, did a double-take and yeah ... they have to be right up there.

When we played Nashville in the playoffs - an actual good defensive team - they had a 35 y/o Ryan McDonagh as their 2D and career #6 type Jeremy Lauzon as their 4D, and everyone was healthy.

Sometimes the system is greater than the parts.

 

[pitseleh]

A couple of nights ago, I was going through the teams defensive depth charts and was weirdly surprised how poor most teams' defence is. I was really surprised that the Capitals probably have the deepest defensive corps in the league.

Vegas is the cream of the crop for me. Hanifin/Theodore/Pietrangelo is a strong top 3, Korczak looks like he will be a good one, McNabb and Whitecloud are probably top-4 defenders on most teams, and Hague and Hutton are reasonably regular NHLers. Washington is up there though. Carolina’s D looks strong 1-6 and New Jersey could be in the conversation if their young defenders progress.

 

[SopelFanThe3rd]

Has it been mentioned that Sprong is taking Zadorov's old 91?