Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Roll with the Changes

[sting101]

Awful mistake that will be the undoing of this core. They knew what was going on in the room and they pressured Pettersson into signing when he wanted to leave instead of just trading him for a good value package.

It really was because not just the contract and 5 million we would have freed up to keep a Zadorov and others we could have stamped out the room discontent plus got more assets from the trade and erased this whole year of EP40 being dog water that has further exasperated the whole relationship to begin with. Plus Necas is a right handed shot and wants to take the reins at his natural C position. I don't think Pettersson is at his best at C

I was pro deal at the time without hindsight because i kept close tabs on Necas. He's one of the best skaters in the NHL and drives play with 1st line skills. Inconsistent game and behind others he was under the radar in terms of his production. His upside as a 25-32 yr old is at the top of the 2nd tier of #1C's

Pettersson has stagnated and then gotten worse with injury. He's 1 serious shoulder or knee away from being a boat anchor. Almost feel bad for him as he hasn't developed muscle in his legs gets worked physically and hasn't been able to add enough to get him more space or be able to hold players off. Now the whole vibe is just awful. If Miller leaves and he's not immediately a 100pt #1 he's gonna get hated on with vitriol.

 

[LemonSauceD]

so buffalo trade Kulich, byram and 2nd for Schneider?

Byram is better than Schneider

If u take out either Kulich or a 2nd then I think it’s fair tbh

 

[Glennis the Menace]

Unpopular opinion, but...

Many of us wanted this over the years but it's not worth getting your hopes up for. It just won't happen. Aqua's had 10 years, minus this and last season, to commit to a rebuild and he just won't.

 

[ahmon]

Money is the problem...he's going to want $14m+ so teams are paying rental prices because there is no guarantee they'll be able to sign him.

then Colorado should pay him, the cap will keep going up.

You rather trade off secondary pieces likes Nichushkin, Girard then to move Rantanen.

IMO easier to find a 2nd pairing dman to replace Girard than that premium Rantanen brings over an average 1st line winger

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[timw33]

Necas is getting undersold from what ive neen reading.. He makes 6.5 for this and next year that's 2 runs for the Avs with a lot of savings. He"s also been pushing to move back to his natural C position and hitting his prime as one of the fastest and most skilled players with size. That 1-2 combo is about as good as it gets I'm terms of playdriving.
Drury is also a little underrated. He's got some 3rd line chops and even enough skill to be a 3rd wheel on a top6 line. He will fit in well in Colorado.

Rantanen is a unit but he's gonna get 14m by the sounds of it...so much for any surplus value and he's been through the wars and is gonna be 28 to start out. And that's if they retain if not they just gave up a premium asset. Hope it works out because it has a lot of risk.

Bold though which I like

Necas' FO numbers over the years have been horrendous, like sub 40% the last two years and (Career 41%), meaning if you're playing him at centre you likely have to have a winger capable of winning draws out there with with. I'll be curious to see his deployment for Colorado, especially on a PP1 that already features 2 RH mainstays.

Agreed on Drury, I think they got a really nice piece.

On the Rantanen cost...he's massively outperformed his last contract and took five years to keep the AAV down which absolutely helped the Avs win the cup, and now they are not wanting to hand out a "thank you for the cup" contract, which I can understand. However, the Canes have an insane amount of cap space this offseason and will on aggregate generate a ton of surplus value from the Aho/Svechnikov/Jarvis/Slavin long term deals that allows them to give a premium piece 2-3MM more than most teams are comfortable with. It's been their competitive advantage: managing the cap and being ruthless with negotiations, refusing to get bogged down by overpaying mediocre players (well maybe aside from KK), and trying to land that big premiere piece to help push them over the top. Again, Canes one of the only true contending teams with strong NHL/farm system that can just straight up offer him 13MM+ AAV deal right now and not implode the rest of their team to do so.

It's all very interesting stuff.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

You want to blow up the core, to get full value you have to *lose* the JT deal. And now. Yesterday would've been better. A month ago even better.

You'd think they'd have learned something from last year. Nope.

 

[LemonSauceD]

so buffalo trade Kulich, byram and 2nd for Schneider?

Byram is better than Schneider

Never mind, just went into depth on Schneider, he’s prettt much a bottom pairing defenseman.

 

[Hodgy]

To me the craziest part of the Rantanen trade is how Colorado didnt even get a 1st back along with Necas.

Sure Necas cheaper, but he's been a 60-70 point guy for while. There is pretty big risk that he simply had a really hot 2 months to start the season and will start to average out to that level.

Rantanen is proven commodity and more importantly has good chemistry between him and your other stars. Chemistry is not a given.

Rantanen isn't even 30 yet and has over 100 points in the playoffs. Those are Hall of fame numbers#.

This, unfortunately for the Canucks, is the biggest take home, and isn’t really a new concept. But it really further confirms that you can’t get very good youngish players when trading older players. And that’s why they should just accept picks and prospects for Miller.

 

[Canucker]

then Colorado should pay him, the cap will keep going up.

You rather trade off secondary pieces likes Nichushkin, Girard then to move Rantanen.

IMO easier to find a 2nd pairing dman to replace Girard than that premium Rantanen brings over an averager 1st line winger

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I don't necessarily disagree...but I think maybe they're thinking MacKinnon is their benchmark and perhaps would prefer to have a more balanced cap structure than overly top heavy? I think Rantanen is a beast and I would have probably paid him what he wanted, but I can also see the other side of the equation.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i am in a trade them both frame of mind today. if i was the canucks gm i would not answer the phone out of fear of what i might agree to.

 

[JT Milker]

Miller would probably fit really well on Colorado, their best player is already a hard ass dbag.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

^ They're gonna flip the picks anyway. Might as well just focus on this kind of package.

Trading both today would be incredibly foolish. Like ripping off a bandaid in the sick ward of a hospital and you've torn the scab right off as well.

 

[ahmon]

I don't necessarily disagree...but I think maybe they're thinking MacKinnon is their benchmark and perhaps would prefer to have a more balanced cap structure than overly top heavy? I think Rantanen is a beast and I would have probably paid him what he wanted, but I can also see the other side of the equation.

I see the other side too, I just think MacFarland might regret this.

In a similar vein, I was always surprised they traded Byram for Mittelstadt.

Bryam if healthy can be a top pairing puck mover who even played well in the finals of the Stanley Cup (can't get more pressure than that).

Mittelstadt is a forward with skill who can struggle defensively and lacks intensity.

Thought they would lose that deal, and might this one too.

As a canucks fan, I don't mind Colorado losing trades thats for sure.

 

[dbaz]

Carolina still has the ability to take jt miller/petey and/or demko.

They still have tons of picks, and prospects(not including nishkin). nadeau, morrow, artamanov, unger-sorum, etc etc
They have hall and anderson who are a combined 9.5mil in cap

For example a base of jk, anderson, hall, 2 prospects and a pick for jtm and demko
1 roster player, 2 prospects, a pick and dump 10mil in cap for the year

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I’m a big fan of Kulich.

Think mgmt should be going after him as a young C with Top 6 upside.

But they seem too busy spending the rot days talking to one team on trade JT )or EP) solely and then getting jilted at the altar.

 

[Bgav]

Trade Miller to Colorado so they beat the oilers in the playoffs.

If we just trade Petey..

KJ + Mateychuk + 1st

 

[ahmon]

Carolina still has the ability to take jt miller/petey and/or demko.

They still have tons of picks, and prospects(not including nishkin). nadeau, morrow, artamanov, unger-sorum, etc etc
They have hall and anderson who are a combined 9.5mil in cap

For example a base of jk, anderson, hall, 2 prospects and a pick for jtm and demko
1 roster player, 2 prospects, a pick and dump 10mil in cap for the year

agreed, if anything I rather get back taylor Hall than Kotkaniemi in a Miller trade.

Kotkaniemi is wildly inconsistent and Montreal/Carolina has been waiting for years for him to turn his game around. Turnarounds rarely turn.

I almost view him as a negative asset. Hall at least is on an expiring contract.

I wouldn't be opposed to a Miller for Hall, + bunch of prospects and 1st back trade

 

[sting101]

To me the craziest part of the Rantanen trade is how Colorado didnt even get a 1st back along with Necas.

Sure Necas cheaper, but he's been a 60-70 point guy for while. There is pretty big risk that he simply had a really hot 2 months to start the season and will start to average out to that level.

Rantanen is proven commodity and more importantly has good chemistry between him and your other stars. Chemistry is not a given.

Rantanen isn't even 30 yet and has over 100 points in the playoffs. Those are Hall of fame numbers#.

Rantanen will get 8yrs on a 14 million dollar per deal and that means you will be paying that for yrs 33-36.
He's a UFA and possible rental at this stage. They got a 2nd and 4th

Necas is 3yrs younger just scraping his prime potential and next year will provide 7-8 million in cap savings without surrendering that much as a player.

Drury is a really good utility player who is 24/25 and is just what the doctor ordered in Colorado. C/W PKing.2yrs at 1.75 then RFA w/control is an excellent contract situation. Buried on a 4th line due to Carolinas incredible depth he will get more opportunity in Colorado. Underrated throw in if you ask me.

For a pending UFA with that ask contractually i think Colorado made out like bandits

In saying that i love seeing Carolina who have been excellent for awhile now finally be bold and go for it. Necas was gonna walk after next year 100%. They really pissed him off with Brind'Amour's usage and then he got destroyed in contract negotiations to this point.

They knew that and he had already asked out once which is why his name kept coming up in trades

 

[Jerry the great]

It really was because not just the contract and 5 million we would have freed up to keep a Zadorov and others we could have stamped out the room discontent plus got more assets from the trade and erased this whole year of EP40 being dog water that has further exasperated the whole relationship to begin with. Plus Necas is a right handed shot and wants to take the reins at his natural C position. I don't think Pettersson is at his best at C

I was pro deal at the time without hindsight because i kept close tabs on Necas. He's one of the best skaters in the NHL and drives play with 1st line skills. Inconsistent game and behind others he was under the radar in terms of his production. His upside as a 25-32 yr old is at the top of the 2nd tier of #1C's

Pettersson has stagnated and then gotten worse with injury. He's 1 serious shoulder or knee away from being a boat anchor. Almost feel bad for him as he hasn't developed muscle in his legs gets worked physically and hasn't been able to add enough to get him more space or be able to hold players off. Now the whole vibe is just awful. If Miller leaves and he's not immediately a 100pt #1 he's gonna get hated on with vitriol.

If we had traded Pettersson for Necas and Kotkaneimi (+ a prospect if the rumors were true)) last Feb/March when that deal was on the table, we'd have had no additional cap space for Zadorov or anyone else...the cap savings would have been ~$300k.

It would have also probably resulted in deafening criticism (initially anyway). Pettersson was top 10 in scoring (between Marner and Draisaitl) and Necas and Kotkaniemi were both having down years. who knows how they'd have responded in Vancouver....or Pettersson in Carolina, but the overwhelming sentiment at the time was "thank god he signed because Necas and Kotkaneimi suck"

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Who’s a proven winner on the current team?

maybe he meant jay beagle? never should have let him go

 

[Vector]

agreed, if anything I rather get back taylor Hall than Kotkaniemi in a Miller trade.

Kotkaniemi is wildly inconsistent and Montreal/Carolina has been waiting for years for him to turn his game around. Turnarounds rarely turn.

I almost view him as a negative asset. Hall at least is on an expiring contract.

I wouldn't be opposed to a Miller for Hall, + bunch of prospects and 1st back trade

I imagine the Hurricanes would want to keep any trade if something would materialize. I don’t think that’s the case given the wording of them choosing Rantanen over Miller or Pettersson.

Could do something like Miller & Hoglander for Hall, Roslovic, and picks + prospects.

 

[krutovsdonut]

miller to colorado for necas and some pocket change

ep40 to chicago for all the young dudes

but, sadly, colorado will offer mittlestadt, and chicago will offer terraveinan and bertuzzi.

 

[arttk]

To me the craziest part of the Rantanen trade is how Colorado didnt even get a 1st back along with Necas.

Sure Necas cheaper, but he's been a 60-70 point guy for while. There is pretty big risk that he simply had a really hot 2 months to start the season and will start to average out to that level.

Rantanen is proven commodity and more importantly has good chemistry between him and your other stars. Chemistry is not a given.

Rantanen isn't even 30 yet and has over 100 points in the playoffs. Those are Hall of fame numbers#.

Avs probably didn’t give permission to Canes to talk to Rantanen about an extension. You can’t give out a 1st rounder when you don’t have certainty that he will extend.
Maybe the Avs know that Rantanen is dead set on going to UFA.

There are reports that Rantanen had no idea this was going to happen and was “blindsided” by this trade.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I'd take Miller for Mittelstadt. That's the easiest one to do, should Colorado want to.

 

[Cogburn]

So.....Miller, Boeser and Demko are all rumoured to be open to be moved.

Woof.