Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Hockey Starts Now

[Jay26]

Yeah to be honest at this point I could definitely see him being traded. This thing is starting to reach critical mass. Unless - and this would be preferable because, despite my criticisms, I really don't want to trade him - he really does start to turn a corner.

I've been frustrated lately but ultimately I'm really pulling for you, Petey!

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Jesus. Pettersson needs to get his house in order. Sounds like he has some toxic friendships.

Miller seems like the worst person to engage with him on this, but if Hughes can't get through, the organization needs to insist he gets some support. Short leash from now on.

Miller seems like a 60 year old man trapped in a 30 year old's body. Very much a "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" kind of guy that doesn't give a shit about feelings and thinks you need to push people at all times to get the best out of them.

Tocchet strikes me as cut from the same cloth, so it's no question why they are seemingly close. Reminds of the "bosses son" dynamic

 

[Diversification]

Based on what we know, the team is doing the opposite of coddling him though

Exactly. The service relationship has kicked in as EF so aptly put it. But I do hate that it’s now out there in public because it’s just going to exacerbate the problem.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

You know what happens when a company stops treating a client well after their initial one year contract expires?

They churn.

Except this time, it's a very long contract and one that neither side can simply terminate. That opens the door for either management to stop treating the player well, or for the player to get comfortable with underperforming.

Guaranteed contracts will do this if both sides aren't explicitly on the same page and feel like they're getting a good deal.

 

[Vector]

 

[theguardianII]

Exactly. The service relationship has kicked in as EF so aptly put it. But I do hate that it’s now out there in public because it’s just going to exacerbate the problem.

Ya and who has made the negative public statements?
The guy running the team.

A trade NOW I think would HELP Pettersson the best, forget any impact of the team, for the player.

You know over the years I have seen "mentoring". Gillis was a genius for signing Sundin even with that grossly high contract.
His mentoring of Kesler primarily and the Sedins as well may have taken a couple of years of seasoning off the learning curve.

Not suggesting but could or can you imagine what mentoring under Crosby could do for Pettersson under a less strict system or Ovechkin or just not having the pressure of Vancouver on his shoulders? No coach public complaints, no everyday all day social media or media in general examining everything said, done or trying to interpret a frown?

He was drafted here in 2017, that's 7 years ago. 6 years going on 7 years of playing under the spot light that just got turned up with the contract on a team with fans that just endured Benning's debacle and is now starting to see the same from Allvin.

Tocchet is great? Really, why isn't Wee Willie great as well then? He did the same thing with less.

And Allvin! After the train wreck that was Benning isn't there starting to be some of the same buffoon moves? They have had only one winning season with him. They could maybe get another this year but the season isn't over yet and I am sure the next three years of draft picks and prospects are on Allvin's table to make sure they have the best chance at getting WC2.

Miller is injured from experience it could be a popped rib, that can be played with but some things are just too painful like drawing a puck back or a backhand shot, just a guess. A popped rib doesn't require being hit.

If Demko, Miller, Hughes were to miss too much time the injury bug becomes an EXCUSE for not having success especially if EP can't play his way. That might make Tocchet change the style for EP's line but assuredly his comments will reflect that. That is how shallow the depth of the team is.

 

[StickShift]

RE: Pettersson. I wonder about those rumors last year with Carolina and Martin Necas.

There was of course the trade-threat with Carolina that sparked the extension. But, there was also that Friedman rumor in the off-season that Carolina was shopping Necas and that Vancouver wanted to get him.

Carolina ended up only extending Necas for two-years ($6.5m) and are walking him to UFA. It feels like they kicked their decision with him down the field rather figuring out a long-term solution.

It feels like two teams with the same problem (with just a different context) that they were close to solving for each other last year.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

RE: Pettersson. I wonder about those rumors last year with Carolina and Martin Necas.

There was of course the trade-threat with Carolina that sparked the extension. But, there was also that Friedman rumor in the off-season that Carolina was shopping Necas and that Vancouver wanted to get him.

Carolina ended up only extending Necas for two-years ($6.5m) and are walking him to UFA. It feels like they kicked their decision with him down the field rather figuring out a long-term solution.

It feels like two teams with the same problem (with just a different context) that they were close to solving for each other last year.

Any conversation starts and ends with Jarvis.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Any conversation starts and ends with Jarvis.

Jarvis, Necas, young quality prospect, 1st rounder.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Jarvis, Necas, young quality prospect, 1st rounder.

<

 

[StickShift]

Any conversation starts and ends with Jarvis.

Jarvis, Necas, young quality prospect, 1st rounder.

Do you really think Vancouver is in a position of strength to ask for Seth Jarvis considering the nature of this discussion? He was just signed to an incredibly team-friendly 8y deal. Carolina would be looking to trade their problem—not their perceived solution.

Best trade comparable for Pettersson is probably Eichel. That was a distressed asset. The return there was Alex Tuch, Peyton Krebs, a 1st and and 2nd.

Not saying that's a great return or that they should do something like that. But, that's probably the sort of offer that the Canucks are going to receive. And Vancouver's management is going to have to determine whether making something out of the pieces they get is going to be better for their competitiveness that whatever this version of Elias Pettersson is.

But it's worth considering. Would having Martin Necas (plus) last year instead of Pettersson have changed the outcome of that Oilers series?

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Do you really think Vancouver is in a position of strength to ask for Seth Jarvis? He was just signed to an incredibly team-friendly 8y deal. Carolina would be looking to trade their problem—not their perceived solution.

Yes. Otherwise Carolina can f*** off.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Pettersson for Byfield and Clarke?

Rob Blake has been bent over before.

 

[ephmrl]

Don't understand the frenzy over this when Pettersson's game seems to be coming around. Most of the things that Friedman said seemed like a completely normal reaction to a star player with a big contract struggling with confidence issues.

The main thing that I took from the Friedman segment is that Pettersson needs to reevaluate his friend group if he has people constantly sending him negative stories about himself. It's no wonder his confidence seems to be all over the place if he has friends blowing up his phone with rumors and negativity every single day.

 

[Wisp]

I come from the future, here's what happens: Puck starts going in the net for Pettersson, supported by his stronger and improving engaged play, narrative goes away. There will be a 'the org and teammates challenged him and he stepped up and embraced the challenge!' narrative that results.

We've been through this stuff with Boeser trade chatter. We've been through this stuff with Miller trade chatter. We've been through with this with Garland trade chatter, too. This too will work itself out.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Carolina and Buffalo seem like the best possible trade partners for a potential EP trade if it ends up going that route.

 

[Vector]

Really good article about how the numbers aren't great for Pettersson but they also indicate how offense is still being created with him on the ice. Show's how Pettersson is getting increasingly involved at 5v5 and that the PP involvement will have to follow.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Really good article about how the numbers aren't great for Pettersson but they also indicate how offense is still being created with him on the ice. Show's how Pettersson is getting increasingly involved at 5v5 and that the PP involvement will have to follow.

Once he gets that 1st goal it will no doubt relieve a lot of the pressure he’s currently feeling and hopefully give a boost of confidence he needs on the offensive side of his game. One thing we can be thankful for is that defensively he’s been solid so far.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

What’s up with goalies complaining about fatigue after playing a couple games in a row? Didn’t seem like an issue 10-15 years ago when a number 1 goaltender would play 65-70 games, nowadays teams playing their number 1 goalie over 60 games is considered a bad strategy as fatigue won’t let them be their best during the gruelling playoff run (teams have even started using rotations in the playoffs), 50 starts seems to be the ideal team target for their #1’s in today’s NHL, could have to do with the speed of the game, the reduced goalie equipment size and the mental energy required. A lot of teams including the Canucks need 3 capable goalies as fatigue and injuries have really gone up for goalies.

Vladar can't save the day this time for resilient Flames

Labouring with every stride he took towards the bench with 90 seconds remaining, Dan Vladar’s body language said everything about the game he’d just played. Despite the goalie's best efforts, the Flames finally lost a game in regulation time.

www.sportsnet.ca

https://dailyhive.com/calgary/vladar-injury-concern-flames-loss-hurricanes

 

[arttk]

What’s up with goalies complaining about fatigue after playing a couple games in a row? Didn’t seem like an issue 10-15 years ago when a number 1 goaltender would play 65-70 games, nowadays teams playing their number 1 goalie over 60 games is considered a bad strategy as fatigue won’t let them be their best during the gruelling playoff run (teams have even started using rotations in the playoffs), 50 starts seems to be the ideal team target for their #1’s in today’s NHL, could have to do with the speed of the game, the reduced goalie equipment size and the mental energy required. A lot of teams including the Canucks need 3 capable goalies as fatigue and injuries have really gone up for goalies.

https://dailyhive.com/calgary/vladar-injury-concern-flames-loss-hurricanes

Modern techniques are super unnatural to the body. Also teams are changing the way how they attack and I am guessing there is a hell lot more east west forcing goalies to explode post to post.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Modern techniques are super unnatural to the body. Also teams are changing the way how they attack and I am guessing there is a hell lot more east west forcing goalies to explode post to post.

True.

From the internet….

In the modern NHL, the trend has been moving away from having a single goalie start most games. This shift is due to the increasing recognition of the physical and mental demands of the position, the rise in talent level across the board allowing for more reliable backups, and the strategic advantage of having two game-ready goalies heading into the playoffs. However, elite goalies who are performing well will still see a larger number of starts.

 

[Vector]

I listened to the first part of this where Riccio and Shah run through some different defencemen, both left and right handed, that may become available.

Defensive Trade Targets:
-aren't that many obvious trade targets available
-not even sure there's a Hronek-type available
-the handedness of the defenceman the Canucks pursue will probably depend on the market
-even if you want to upgrade the right side, there's not a lot potentially on the market
-Ivan Provorov first mentioned as being an obvious trade candidate; Cam Fowler is the other obvious
-mentions Chychrun (says he has another year on his deal but false, he's a UFA after this year) but points out that the Capitals are 5-1-0 right now
-Marcus Pettersson is a nice piece and not sure if he's available right now
-Rasmus Andersson has another year left and the Flames are not looking to make trade if they near a playoff spot; calls him the ideal trade candidate
-should be projecting a player that could be available since the trade market is so sparse
-Damon Severson and Mackenzie Weegar are two players with lots of term that are mentioned
-wonder where the Senators are going and mentions Artem Zub; if the Senators don't improve he may become available given his age and young prospects in their system

Longer-Term Players:
-not an enticing list of prospective players
-Colton Parayko, for example, has 6 years left at 6.5m
-do the Canucks want to lock themselves into a long-term commitment when they have Tom Willander coming?
-if they do go after someone on a long-term deal then Willander becomes part of that trade
-Blue Jackets are in transition

Right-Handed Rentals:
-would rather target a rental but the three right-handed rental defencemen are Ethan Bear, David Savard, and Will Borgen
-Will Borgen is on the Kraken and they are playing well

Timothy Liljegren:
-talk about Liljegren and how he needs to round out his game but is a smarter bet than the rentals or longer term contracts
-if the Canucks would acquire Liljegren, it comes with them being confidence that they can develop him
-not sure if Liljegren has a harder edge to him
-would have a lower cost to acquire
-Maple Leafs want to get an asset back for him right now
-when Hakanpaa returns, it may push the Maple Leafs to get Liljegren off the books

Other Right-Handed Defencemen with Term:
-Connor Murphy of the Blackhawks; might end up being the defencemen that teams go after if Rasmus Andersson isn't available
-Nick Jensen of the Capitals but he's in his mid-30s and his game is only okay

Vladislav Gavrikov:
-a really good defencemen
-pending UFA
-has a full NTC
-availability determined by where the Kings are in the standings

Sharks Defencemen:
-Mario Ferraro wouldn't be a cheap acquisition
-Jake Walman has really good early results according to the underlying numbers
-Ferraro has a really high reputation around the league but his underlying numbers aren't as good

 

[LemonSauceD]

I think the most frustrating part of Petey’s struggles is his inability to generate shots. Petey currently sits like top 15 in NHL history for shooting % right now and is one of the leagues most efficient scorers but the last 40-50 games we haven’t seen him just overwhelm goalies with his incredible shooting ability or being able to generate shots. His poor shot selection has been shocking and probably the biggest standout struggle I’ve seen from his overall offensive game.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Miller’s a good example of a guy who grew as a player as he got older. He was getting ripped pretty badly in Vancouver after he was traded here and was actively shopped by management with no serious takers. Pettersson should look to JT as a model of how to improve himself. I also think we need to be patient here with EP given how few games have been played and his recent play where he looks far more engaged. I’ll reassess around the 25 game mark.

 

[theguardianII]

I listened to the first part of this where Riccio and Shah run through some different defencemen, both left and right handed, that may become available.

Why target only those one's at great cost, IMO they should not limit themselves to only a few. If a great cost is coming then go for a long term solution, the cost is likely the same over time.

Defensive Trade Targets:
-aren't that many obvious trade targets available
-not even sure there's a Hronek-type available
-the handedness of the defenceman the Canucks pursue will probably depend on the market
-even if you want to upgrade the right side, there's not a lot potentially on the market
-Ivan Provorov first mentioned as being an obvious trade candidate; Cam Fowler is the other obvious
-mentions Chychrun (says he has another year on his deal but false, he's a UFA after this year) but points out that the Capitals are 5-1-0 right now
-Marcus Pettersson is a nice piece and not sure if he's available right now
-Rasmus Andersson has another year left and the Flames are not looking to make trade if they near a playoff spot; calls him the ideal trade candidate
-should be projecting a player that could be available since the trade market is so sparse
-Damon Severson and Mackenzie Weegar are two players with lots of term that are mentioned
-wonder where the Senators are going and mentions Artem Zub; if the Senators don't improve he may become available given his age and young prospects in their system

Longer-Term Players:
-not an enticing list of prospective players
-Colton Parayko, for example, has 6 years left at 6.5m
-do the Canucks want to lock themselves into a long-term commitment when they have Tom Willander coming?
-if they do go after someone on a long-term deal then Willander becomes part of that trade
-Blue Jackets are in transition

Right-Handed Rentals:
-would rather target a rental but the three right-handed rental defencemen are Ethan Bear, David Savard, and Will Borgen
-Will Borgen is on the Kraken and they are playing well

Why only right hand dmen? There are many great teams that have more of either side, it just takes a coach to figure out the match ups. But size does eliminate a lot of handness.

Timothy Liljegren:
-talk about Liljegren and how he needs to round out his game but is a smarter bet than the rentals or longer term contracts
-if the Canucks would acquire Liljegren, it comes with them being confidence that they can develop him
-not sure if Liljegren has a harder edge to him
-would have a lower cost to acquire
-Maple Leafs want to get an asset back for him right now
-when Hakanpaa returns, it may push the Maple Leafs to get Liljegren off the books

Tocchet has already stated he only want vets, "the AHL is where they learn" so teaching in the NHL isn't preferred.

AND
Size matters, stopping goals is just as important as scoring and sometime harder.

Other Right-Handed Defencemen with Term:
-Connor Murphy of the Blackhawks; might end up being the defencemen that teams go after if Rasmus Andersson isn't available
-Nick Jensen of the Capitals but he's in his mid-30s and his game is only okay

Vladislav Gavrikov:
-a really good defencemen
-pending UFA
-has a full NTC
-availability determined by where the Kings are in the standings

Sharks Defencemen:
-Mario Ferraro wouldn't be a cheap acquisition
-Jake Walman has really good early results according to the underlying numbers
-Ferraro has a really high reputation around the league but his underlying numbers aren't as good

Interesting and thought out post.
But the cap will dictate the player and then Tocchet might bench him anyway or reduce icetime to insignificant.

The thought that the team needs defencemen or any additional help only points out the lack of depth in the organization now and in the near future.

Having 3 lines of boards guys and checker might be okay for entertainment, not to say those guys won't try very hard, but not good enough to get out of the mushy middle.

If EP does get to the auction block I do hope the future is considered at least as much as the present. He could all by his trade, set up the Canucks for a very rosy decade if they can get three NHL players, maybe even a star or two.

The window was last year seeing the team now, they did it, they made the show and looked great considering but the off season radically altered the team's chemistry and defence.

The name is the same but the principles are different. The core was just not strong enough or experienced enough for that kind of overhaul. Why didn't they keep most of those players? Why did some choose not to return? Why were those that were traded away need to be traded away? The team hasn't got better.