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[BenningHurtsMySoul]

I can't believe this team thought hiring Rachel f***ing Doherty was a good idea, if she's indeed the one leaking info to EF.

 

[Vector]

I definitely wouldn't call him PLD. At no point did PLD even look like he wanted to play hockey, even when he got what he wanted. That said, Pettersson's struggles definitely seem to be far more mental than physical. Often the mental exasperates the physical.

 

[PavelBure10]

So management sent the team leaders "Miller and Hughes" out to help Pettersson get thicker skin and find his highest level of play. With what we are learning about Pettersson, how mentally fragile he is, does anyone else think this plan could backfire and push Petey out?

This could go either way, but what we are learning about Pettersson the person, I think this could potentially backfire and make Petey want to leave the club and be traded to a team where he wouldn't be so much under the microscope.

 

[credulous]

I can't believe this team thought hiring Rachel f***ing Doherty was a good idea, if she's indeed the one leaking info to EF.

it's jr. he's used the media to call out his players at every stop in his career. go look up the letang stuff in pittsburgh

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

He's not PLD, let's put those comparisons to rest. PLD doesn't think he's playing poorly and feels like his teams should just accept however he feels like playing on any given day. That guy could put up 0g 0a for a season and be happy with his performance.

Petey reminds of Naslund. Not even just the Swede thing, but the body language/confidence thing. I'm talking about the post-Bertuzzi version of Naslund, where he went 20 games without scoring and forgot the puck at the blueline on a shootout attempt.

Neil MacRae famously said "Naslund looks like someone ran over his dog" when things go poorly. It's a nearly identical situation here. Really puts the Sedins consistent performance over the years in perspective - they were absolutely *crucified* by the media and fans for being "soft Swedish sisters" for years. Even when they were leading the league in scoring.

So management sent the team leaders "Miller and Hughes" out to help Pettersson get thicker skin and find his highest level of play. With what we are learning about Pettersson, how mentally fragile he is, does anyone else think this plan could backfire and push Petey out?

This could go either way, but what we are learning about Pettersson the person, I think this could potentially backfire and make Petey want to leave the club and be traded to a team where he wouldn't be so much under the microscope.

This management team operate with pure Boomer Mentality, where employees are overhead costs meant to have as much value extracted out of them as humanly possible with no regard for their well-being.

 

[ohnoeszz]

Elliotte’s thoughts on Pettersson are basically exactly what MS and others were saying in the since locked Pettersson thread.

No shit.

We’ve seen this player just totally shut down and stop competing 3 different times in his career and it’s been very obvious that it’s a mental thing and not minor injuries but people just don’t want to hear it.

He’s basically a more talented PL Dubois. Hopefully between the player/team they can figure it out.

No they aren't the same.

Elliote Freidman just said he believes there is an ongoing physical issue.

Elliote has not made comments about not competing or anything like that.

Wanting a player to be tougher to play through things is not the same as claiming he stops trying or comparing him to Dubois.

MS gets pushback because he sensationalizes his views from a place of hurt and drowns out dissenting opinions with volume.

 

[Vector]

Teams that need help but probably aren't fits:
Canucks
-mentions about the splits between Hughes on the ice and everyone else
-team has stockpiled big crease-clearers
-lack defencemen that can transition the puck and need right side help
-contract isn't a sensible fit
-if the Canucks are going to commit cap space to a defencemen, it has to be a top-four player
-with Liljegren they'd have 8m between him, Myers, and Desharnais; three guys who profile better on the 3rd pairing
-Liljegren isn't a player that Tocchet would likely trust to play match-up minutes
-difference between Liljegren and Brännström isn't enough to justify the cost or cap allocation

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Very good. Here's mine.

Pettersson:
-last year the Canucks wanted a commit from Pettersson or the team was moving on
-there were those within the organization that were ready to trade him
-Canucks felt there was a level or two he needs to get two
-as great as he is, he needs to be tougher; some people are not wired that way but the Canucks feel he is
-don't want Rutherford, Allvin, or Tocchet to be the ones that push him in that direction; have told Miller and Hughes to get Pettersson to that level
-*laughs* Miller is taking this literally
-have been talks off the ice with Pettersson
-Hughes has been involved
-can't go too far with this
-Canucks feel it might be better if it comes from teammates rather than the coach or GM
-"Elias needs to get to another level. You all see it and we want you guys to get him there"
-teammates see it, understand it, and want to get Pettersson there
-the message comes harder, Miller, than some other guys, Hughes
-to be successful we have to be prepared to accept honest & tough criticism and that's what the Canucks are trying to do
-doesn't think Pettersson always likes the criticism
-doesn't know how serious it is but doesn't think he's completely healthy
-a lot of players prefer when criticism comes from the chain of command rather than teammates because they are supposed to have your back
-however, when your teammates are telling you that you aren't doing your best job, it has a greater impact
-someone called Friedman and told him that he's not going far enough on the Pettersson social media aspect
-Pettersson's friends are sending and telling him stuff
-a few years ago was doing the NHLPA media tour, a coach was able to text in the correct guess of which player, and the player said "I know what you guys say about me" and Friedman was confused; player had a really skewed view and said that his family relays the info to him; Friedman gave the player his number and told the player if he ever had a problem to reach out to Friedman; then gave him some advice that the next time a family member or friend says "this is what a person said about you on television" telling that person that if they do it one more time, warn them they will be cut off from communication; next time he say the player, the player really appreciated what Friedman said because after getting that out of his life, he's not obsessing or brooding about
-if you're a friend of Pettersson and you're sending him clips or transcripts, you're not being a good friend; stop it
-if Rick Dhaliwal says anything, no one understands him because he talks to fast
-Canucks believe if Pettersson can get a little bit of a thicker skin, he will be unstoppable
-Pettersson needs to rediscover the fun he was having in his rookie year
-thinks there is still a great player there and the Canucks have to get that back out of him

I love the compliment given (like a tap on the head).

Then proceeds to go into an absurd amount of details (to show how the adults do it).

 

[Nuckles]

Damn if only the Canucks had some former high profile and highly scrutinized Swedish players that they could tap on the shoulder to talk with Pettersson

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Damn if only the Canucks had some former high profile and highly scrutinized Swedish players that they could tap on the shoulder to talk with Pettersson

That work for the f***ing organization.

 

[MS]

How so? The whole Friedman speculation is that what they are doing now is to get him to another level or two and it's not just to get him back to who he was before. Friedman also mentioned that Petey is still not 100%.

I think it's obvious his confidence is down in the gutters. Confidence down in the gutters affecting performance is a different thing that PLD who historically just didn't give a f*** and his up and down has nothing to do with confidence.

Come on, man.

Tocchet just called him out for not competing and moving his feet and pooh-poohed the injury stuff. The team is literally trying to have players intervene to get him to snap out of it.

This shit isn't normal. And it isn't 'to take him to another level'. It's to try and fix a guy who has 1 ES goal in his last 45 games.

I definitely wouldn't call him PLD. At no point did PLD even look like he wanted to play hockey, even when he got what he wanted. That said, Pettersson's struggles definitely seem to be far more mental than physical. Often the mental exasperates the physical.

PLD actually gave a really insightful interview during the summer when he talked about how he was a guy who needed structure and feedback and a clearly defined role and when he didn't get that he drifted, got confused, and his game fell apart. There were no problems with his compete in Winnipeg and I don't think that PLD 'didn't care/try' any more than Pettersson doesn't.

I think they're very similar personality types where they need things a certain way and need the wind at their back and when they hit turbulence they just kind of shut down.

Pettersson was also laying the groundwork to get traded from here in exactly the same fashion as PLD/Tkachuk before the team got good.

No they aren't the same.

Elliote Freidman just said he believes there is an ongoing physical issue.

Elliote has not made comments about not competing or anything like that.

Wanting a player to be tougher to play through things is not the same as claiming he stops trying or comparing him to Dubois.

MS gets pushback because he sensationalizes his views from a place of hurt and drowns out dissenting opinions with volume.

Again, Tocchet literally just called him out for not moving his feet and rubbished the injury stuff.

This is deep-seeded stuff that the franchise is obviously very concerned about, as they should be.

 

[Peen]

I have zero question that Pettersson isn’t feeling 100%. But what does that even matter? Reading bw the lines, whatever he was going through was minor.

Players play through broken bones come playoff time. You have to be able to do that.

They can’t afford to coddle him. They tried that last year. He threw up bagels every game come playoff time. If they want to win, they need him going and Demko healthy.

Anyways, like I said, I’m waiting til 20-25 games like always to make proclamations about how I feel

 

[thecupismine]

The Petterson stuff makes sense - it's a guy who when things aren't going well has a hard time blocking out the noise around it, gets in his head, then becomes tentative, which creates more noise, then he gets more into his head and becomes even more tentative on the ice, etc.

It creates a big negative feedback loop, which explains why when he's struggling, it seems to go on way longer than you'd expect. I'm glad the organization is trying to different approaches to help him break out of it, because whatever was being done before wasn't working.

He's taken a good step the last 3 games, hopefully it continues. More importantly, hopefully this whole ordeal helps him overcome this stuff when he inevitably hits a string of poor games again.

 

[Canucker]

Again, Tocchet literally just called him out for not moving his feet and rubbished the injury stuff.

This is deep-seeded stuff that the franchise is obviously very concerned about, as they should be.

Yeah, I think if Tocchet thought that EP was injured he would have given it a similar response to the Miller injury "he's dealing with some stuff".

 

[Peter Griffin]

Desharnais would probably be an offsetting salary going back for Pulock. Myers is on the 3rd pairing.

And where is Willander, minors? Are you running Hronek/Pulock/Willander/Myers for the next 2+ seasons?

In your scenario, who is the Canucks #2 right-side D? Myers? And you expect to contend for a Cup with that?

Depends on who the left side defender is that would be acquired. With the right player in that spot, and Soucy anchoring the 3rd pairing, I think it’s possible. Also depends on how ready management feels Willander is able to handle NHL minutes.

If we’re putting 1st, 2nd and Lekk on the table I’d be expecting a much better defenseman in return than Pulock.

 

[ohnoeszz]

Again, Tocchet literally just called him out for not moving his feet and rubbished the injury stuff.

This is deep-seeded stuff that the franchise is obviously very concerned about, as they should be.

Petersson echoed the moving the feet concept last year in the playoffs.

The reporter you were just pointing towards as vindication for your views just said there is an injury factor. You ignore that and then dispute it.

Lethargic play and mental struggles track very well with a knee issue.

A coach cant do anything about the knee but he can work on a guy to put it out of mind and push through - of course Tochett ignores it.

It doesn't have to be one or the other unless you have an agenda to push.

 

[StickShift]

I'm about 75-80% sure (up from 50% in the offseason) that they are going to find a trade that works and move him. There is a reason they aren't activating the NMC until next season - they wanted more time to see how he responded.

That is actually a CBA thing—players cannot have NMC/NTCs until they reach the season of their UFA eligibility requirements.

It’s the same scenario where Montreal traded PK Subban after he signed his extension but before his NMC could begin.

 

[God]

is there not some sports psychologist they can hire to save their 100 million dollar investment?

it's pretty clear by now the only injury is a mental one.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

That is actually a CBA thing—players cannot have NMC/NTCs until they reach the season of their UFA eligibility requirements.

It’s the same scenario where Montreal traded PK Subban after he signed his extension but before his NMC could begin.

Interesting. Regardless of the reason, I fully expect them to use this time to get out of the deal. The prospect of an unhappy/chronically injured Pettersson making $11.6 million per season is terrifying. This is like knowing a fire will burn down your house a year in advance and being able to purchase fire insurance.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Is Conor Timmins worth a gamble once TO needs to move $$?

Only $1.1M and pending RFA.

 

[StickShift]

Pettersson was also laying the groundwork to get traded from here in exactly the same fashion as PLD/Tkachuk before the team got good.

I’m going to speculate that the desire for a trade has never left.

But, his agent and him probably had a come-to-Jesus moment that his play had slipped (or been inconsistent enough) to such a degree that it was about to affect his chance of a mega-extension.

They decided to get the bag now and know that they could still seek their trade after. They bargained the payday for the ultimate choice of destination that Tkachuk had.

And the Canucks probably weren’t stupid to it either—they probably know that trading a signed Pettersson is probably going to generate a better return than a pending-UFA Pettersson that could Tkachuk his destination.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

I’m going to speculate that the desire for a trade has never left.

But, his agent and him probably had a come-to-Jesus moment that his play had slipped (or been inconsistent enough) to such a degree that it was about to affect his chance of a mega-extension.

They decided to get the bag now and know that they could still seek their trade after. They bargained the payday for ultimate choice of destination that Tkachuk had.

And the Canucks probably weren’t stupid to it either—they probably know that trading a signed Pettersson is probably going to generate a better return than a pending-UFA Pettersson that could Tkachuk his destination.

This is likely what happened. It's like separated parents getting back together for the kids because they can't afford to live apart. There is no love there, but neither side will be in a better position if they can't come to an agreement.

 

[barriers]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1849873056308556014

 

[Peter Griffin]

I definitely wouldn't call him PLD. At no point did PLD even look like he wanted to play hockey, even when he got what he wanted. That said, Pettersson's struggles definitely seem to be far more mental than physical. Often the mental exasperates the physical.

Yea comparing EP to PLD is a bit extreme. I think Pettersson’s issues are lack of confidence and dealing with and being able to elevate your game in times of adversity. Friedman spent about 5 seconds from what I can remember from that interview talking about his injury.

 

[rypper]

Very good. Here's mine.

Pettersson:
-last year the Canucks wanted a commit from Pettersson or the team was moving on
-there were those within the organization that were ready to trade him
-Canucks felt there was a level or two he needs to get two
-as great as he is, he needs to be tougher; some people are not wired that way but the Canucks feel he is
-don't want Rutherford, Allvin, or Tocchet to be the ones that push him in that direction; have told Miller and Hughes to get Pettersson to that level
-*laughs* Miller is taking this literally
-have been talks off the ice with Pettersson
-Hughes has been involved
-can't go too far with this
-Canucks feel it might be better if it comes from teammates rather than the coach or GM
-"Elias needs to get to another level. You all see it and we want you guys to get him there"
-teammates see it, understand it, and want to get Pettersson there
-the message comes harder, Miller, than some other guys, Hughes
-to be successful we have to be prepared to accept honest & tough criticism and that's what the Canucks are trying to do
-doesn't think Pettersson always likes the criticism
-doesn't know how serious it is but doesn't think he's completely healthy
-a lot of players prefer when criticism comes from the chain of command rather than teammates because they are supposed to have your back
-however, when your teammates are telling you that you aren't doing your best job, it has a greater impact
-someone called Friedman and told him that he's not going far enough on the Pettersson social media aspect
-Pettersson's friends are sending and telling him stuff
-a few years ago was doing the NHLPA media tour, a coach was able to text in the correct guess of which player, and the player said "I know what you guys say about me" and Friedman was confused; player had a really skewed view and said that his family relays the info to him; Friedman gave the player his number and told the player if he ever had a problem to reach out to Friedman; then gave him some advice that the next time a family member or friend says "this is what a person said about you on television" telling that person that if they do it one more time, warn them they will be cut off from communication; next time he say the player, the player really appreciated what Friedman said because after getting that out of his life, he's not obsessing or brooding about
-if you're a friend of Pettersson and you're sending him clips or transcripts, you're not being a good friend; stop it
-if Rick Dhaliwal says anything, no one understands him because he talks to fast
-Canucks believe if Pettersson can get a little bit of a thicker skin, he will be unstoppable
-Pettersson needs to rediscover the fun he was having in his rookie year
-thinks there is still a great player there and the Canucks have to get that back out of him

That's why you're the king.