Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Early Trade Deadline

[arttk]

Glad i can entertain

Fact is the GM just told the world that Pettersson didn't put in the work ("preperation") but was willing to take on the ("expectations"...er "contract") then let it go to his head when he couldn't do what he thought he should be paid for.("don't believe he was aware how hard it was going to be")

Miller and Pettersson discord was confirmed by Hughes and Tocchet?

I speculated about Miller. It's probably nonsense but as i said "would not surprise me"

Allvin cleared the air on Pettersson.

40 needs to grow up and be accountable. I know it's tough to hear about our favourite players. He wouldn't have said that if it was all about injury.

In fact that would pretty much sever the relationship if so and i really think Allvin loves his Swedes and wanted Pettersson badly to sign and still has high hopes for him. He has high expectations.

Thank F our management does. It's the only chance you have to win in the NHL

Feels like there is disagreement between how Petey thinks about his injury vs how management thinks about it and considering how shit our medical staff has been, it’s bonkers that management sides with the medical staff.
I mean, who the f*** made the call that Hughes is good to go leading to him now being out for 3 weeks?

 

[David71]

Sportsnet: Is it difficult as a GM to be patient and wait for the right trade when the team is scuffling?
Allvin: From a GM perspective, look at how there are hardly any trades. Even lateral (trades), it's just hard. So it's more like: How do you work and fix the players that we have? Do I want to see if I could shake things up and send a message to the players? Sometimes that is what's needed. this is a must.

 

[Canucks LB]

I find Allvin very interesting so read through the whole thing but the most attention grabbing section will be the following:

Sportsnet: Regarding those top players, Quinn Hughes has been fabulous on defence. Goaltender Thatcher Demko and forwards J.T. Miller and Brock Boeser all missed significant time, and then struggled to regain top form. And Filip Hronek is still out. But what about Elias Pettersson, who didn’t miss a game until Saturday?

Allvin: I think, again, it comes back to expectations and preparation, how you prepare yourself. I don't believe that he was aware of just how hard it was going to be. Just because you achieve one thing to get a long-term extension (the $92.8-million contract Pettersson signed in March). . . life just gets harder. You haven't really accomplished anything. You're not even halfway there (to winning a Stanley Cup). And then obviously the mental part comes in there, too, and suddenly you feel the pressure.

Sportsnet: You do have an out on that contract because Pettersson’s trade protection doesn’t start until next season. But is moving your 26-year-old star actually possible?

Allvin (smiling): Well, you know Jim's history.

We want to build a team that sets us up for long-term success. Building around the long-term deals with Miller and Petey, having Quinn and Demko locked up, Filip Hronek and Jake DeBrusk, I mean, those are big pieces. Petey has shown up to this point that he is an extremely talented, quality player that could and should be a No. 1 centre. I believe in him. I believe that he's capable. (But) he needs to mature and understand that there are certain expectations and it does not get easier. And you need to face the music when things don't go well. Is it (a trade) possible? I guess I would say anything is possible.

I have lots to say about this, but busy atm, ill drop my opinion in a bit.
But man oh man, what a interview

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I don't think there's anyway they sell beyond Quinn Hughes saying he wants out. If you mean just Pettersson, I wouldn't be surprised if this is some sort of tactic to put more pressure on Pettersson to be better.

Putting more pressure on Petterson seems counter productive when, in Allvin's own quote, "And then obviously the mental part comes in there, too, and suddenly you feel the pressure." Putting more pressure on him isn't going to help, when he is unable to handle the pressure he already has. I feel like they are handling Petterson all wrong. Bruce implied that you have to coddle him, he doesn't react to tough love. Calling him out in public, rightly or not, probably just push him away even more.

Don't forget, this is a player that you have to threaten a trade in order for him to extend here, I don't think we have any leverage dealing him the "tough love" treatment.

What a mess this has become.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Putting more pressure on Petterson seems counter productive when, in Allvin's own quote, "And then obviously the mental part comes in there, too, and suddenly you feel the pressure." Putting more pressure on him isn't going to help, when he is unable to handle the pressure he already has. I feel like they are handling Petterson all wrong. Bruce implied that you have to coddle him, he doesn't react to tough love. Calling him out in public, rightly or not, probably just push him away even more.

Don't forget, this is a player that you have to threaten a trade in order for him to extend here, I don't think we have any leverage dealing him the "tough love" treatment.

What a mess this has become.

Petey’s got to grow up. Even trading Miller won’t exactly solve this mental issue he has. This whole situation sucks.

We are literally in an era where we have the best player in this franchises history and we are just pissing it away with a pouty star and another star who reacts to criticism worse than a middle school student.

There’s a lot of blame to be shared between Miller and Petey.

 

[David71]

This feels like it could become a lost season and I'm ok with it. Hold on to our futures, let Petey, Demko, Hughes, etc take the time they need to get back to peak powers. Make a run next season and beyond. Gives GMPA time to figure out the backend too which is clearly not just 1 player away from contention.
I remain very optimistic that any team with a fully healthy EP40, Demko and Hughes can contend with the right support pieces in place. This just doesn't feel like the year. trade the ufas for picks/prospects

 

[Bleach Clean]

i don't think how you can look at the "read the room!" freak out on Patrick Johnston and think he doesn't need to mature. And I'm #1 Pettersson defender, maturity is a fair criticism from Allvin.

Most 25 year old men still need some maturing to do. Pettersson is no exception.

As someone who listens around the league. This again seems like one of those Vancouver is about to make a big deal out of nothing. At 25 Miller wasn't mature at all. He was whining that he had to play 3rd line in TB. Years of Crosby whining to refs during his mid 20s. McDavid complaining. I know for sure that Schiefele and Trouba weren't mature enough for others in the room in Wpg. Mackinnon yelling at his coach to "do his job" when he was 24 and Zadorov saying he would yell at teammates in practice.

From things I've heard, Petey likes to be just left alone to play hockey as instructed. He's never going to want face the media nightly like the Sedin's.

I'll go one step further: Who supposes Miller is mature even now, at age 31? Not me.

With everything we know about him thus far, and with perhaps the team asking him to leave during a locker room outburst after being benched... None of it suggests this is a mature pro.

The JTM-Tocchet-Allvin triumvirate are all frustrated because doing the same thing harder hasn't worked... Well, wonders never cease! The definition of insanity... Maybe try something different, like stapling your franchise C with your franchise D at ES? Give him the best wingers. Like how Mackinnon gets Rantanan, McDavid gets Hyman, and Eichel gets Stone. You know, how normal teams do it.

Nah, better to call out the young star you just signed for 8 years in the media. Push even harder in the wrong direction. It's bound to work out.

If Pettersson does turn things around, it's going to be in spite of his environment, not because of it.

 

[Canucks LB]

Alright, here are my thoughts on the article.

First of all, Wow what a beauty of a article, lots of great quotes and discussions.

From what he is saying, the way I am taking it is that he thinks that Petey is immature, and most important did not take the offseason as serious as he should have.
Also clearly not a fan of his attitude this season.

I also took that Allvin and Rutherford are not massive fans of Pettersson, even if they signed him long term.
They already tried to trade him once, and it sure does feel they are going to take the best offers for JT Miller and Petey and make a call one way or another here.

Going from that, I feel Petey's time is done sooner than later.
I also feel that if Boeser is not signed by the deadline, he is gone also.

 

[sting101]

Feels like there is disagreement between how Petey thinks about his injury vs how management thinks about it and considering how shit our medical staff has been, it’s bonkers that management sides with the medical staff.
I mean, who the f*** made the call that Hughes is good to go leading to him now being out for 3 weeks?

It is really concerning.

 

[Szechwan]

Alright, here are my thoughts on the article.

First of all, Wow what a beauty of a article, lots of great quotes and discussions.

From what he is saying, the way I am taking it is that he thinks that Petey is immature, and most important did not take the offseason as serious as he should have.
Also clearly not a fan of his attitude this season.

I also took that Allvin and Rutherford are not massive fans of Pettersson, even if they signed him long term.
They already tried to trade him once, and it sure does feel they are going to take the best offers for JT Miller and Petey and make a call one way or another here.

Going from that, I feel Petey's time is done sooner than later.
I also feel that if Boeser is not signed by the deadline, he is gone also.

You're probably right, but I think a sell-off like that all but closes the book on Hughes in Vancouver.

It will be nearly impossible to trade Miller and/or EP and/or Boeser without taking a significant step back, and Hughes is in his prime looking to win. Might as well throw in Demko too, given his deal winding down.

 

[Kryten]

Demko, Miller or Pettersson, Lekkerimaki, 2 of our LD prospects, 2025 1st, 2nd. For Hughes brothers and which ever goalie NJD wants to send back.

 

[StickShift]

You're probably right, but I think a sell-off like that all but closes the book on Hughes in Vancouver.

It will be nearly impossible to trade Miller and/or EP and/or Boeser without taking a significant step back, and Hughes is in his prime looking to win. Might as well throw in Demko too, given his deal winding down.

I think it depends entirely on what they get back for either or both Pettersson/Miller.

They could position this as a pivot from building their team around their forwards to properly building their team around Hughes.

They may rationalize that they can get a less-premium center back that provides the same on-ice stats for a fraction of the costs. And that such a move may yield another top-four defenseman in the process.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Lol, I added more as a scrolled a bit further. This is a very divided fan base. I can't imagine a market as hard on players as Van is on theirs. Maybe Petey would prefer a market where he can just play hockey.

Ever heard of Toronto? Or Montreal?

Anyhow, this discord is pretty sad, and I don't think management has a clue in what to do about it.

 

[JT Milker]

That article was definitely meant to piss off our players. Let’s see if it works.

Most of these things were never an issue with a coach that liked both players instead of just one.

When looking at Bruce's rosters vs Tocchets rosters. Tocchet's roster defence especially and forwards are much stronger than Bruce's.

Tocchet: 637 pt% and Jack Adams
Boudreau: 549 pt% and out of the NHL

 

[rypper]

Lol, I added more as a scrolled a bit further. This is a very divided fan base. I can't imagine a market as hard on players as Van is on theirs. Maybe Petey would prefer a market where he can just play hockey.

That is a wild wild statement.

 

[ManVanFan]

Ever heard of Toronto? Or Montreal?

Anyhow, this discord is pretty sad, and I don't think management has a clue in what to do about it.

Yeah but they plan parades every year. Montreal fans were talking about a playoff run in the summer time and Lane Hutson is 100 times better than Hughes already. Toronto fans are pretty hard on Marner. Funny though when Matthews is out Marner lit it up and they were good. Petey gets the same sort of shit as Marner but when Miller was out Petey lit it up and they were good.

Petey was rocking it with Boudreau and the team had a dog shit defence for Bruce's entire time. Then they brought in a coach to rein in Miller and it seems to come at the expense of Petey's game but the roster as a whole is a hell of a lot better now. Results have stuttered this season with a worse defence and injuries basically back to where Bruce was. At least they brought in Lankinen this year otherwise it would have been like when Bruce had Delia, Martin as his two goalies.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Weegar is signed for the next 6 years after this season at a pretty reasonable sum...despite it being highly unlikely, I wouldn't consider it a "short term fix" to add a legit top pairing defenseman for the next 6 years.

And it would be nice to get McDavid for Miller in a trade. But that does not answer what I was talking about. How do we fit another $6M + player in and stay under the cap? Both now, and next year. And everybody's answer is always, well just get rid of the players I don't like and get more value then they are worth. Sure Weegar (sorry autocorrect) would be a great add, but I just don't see how we could fit him in.

 

[ManVanFan]

That article was definitely meant to piss off our players. Let’s see if it works.


Tocchet: 637 pt% and Jack Adams
Boudreau: 549 pt% and out of the NHL

What did Bruce go when he had a defence that was Hughes/Myers/OEL/Schenn/Hunt/Hamonic. .649

Tocchet goes .665 the next year with Hughes/Hronek/Cole/Myers/Soucy/Zadorov

The forwards depth was been getting stronger as well for Tocchet.

 

[ManVanFan]

That is a wild wild statement.

Other than soccer teams.

 

[Peen]

I can't imagine a market as hard on players as Van is on theirs.

Again, most of the cities in NA have multiple teams in the big four. These other sports have much bigger fanbases.

Obviously there’s going to be hyper-focus on hockey given the lack of alternatives here.

But it’s not a this-city specific issue. Montreal, Toronto are harsher. Oilers fans are similar.

This fanbase also rallies behind their players more than most fanbases. Knicks fans standout similarly.

Now consider the national media focus that a lot of bigger teams in bigger sports get, and also combine that with the way Craig MacEwen & the team have shut down access for local media.

I’m not saying it’s nothing, but the only way the Vancouver Fans are the WORST thing holds any sort of validity is if you’re comparing against small market American teams with no other big four teams and also ignoring the context that they’re probably racially abusing college football and basketball athletes in Oklahama instead, and don’t care as much about the Thunder. But yeah, being a hockey player in Utah, or Seattle is going to be easier than in Vancouver when things go bad. But they aren’t going to celebrate players returning from personal events or performing the same way.

And if you can’t handle that, don’t sign here. It’s really that simple. Find guys who thrive and want that. There are always players who do want that.

—-

Not even specific to you, but I’ll never understand why so many people repeat the “omg our fans are the WORST” thing. Every fanbase says this. In every sport.

There are supporters groups in high level soccer in Europe tied to fascist, far-right political views. Fanbases who racially abuse players. Gambling frustration is voiced especially hard at basketball players. I’ve seen more harsh criticism at Vlad Guerrero on Twitter in the last five years than I should have given that I’m, at best, a casual Mariners fan.

It’s so weird. This thought process always gets points scored with twitter likes and there’s no real like dopamine on a forum which is why I further don’t get it.

From a relative lens, if we ranked the “harshest” markets for the biggest sports in each major north american sports cities, would Vancouver even sniff the top half?

Fwiw, i say all this but I’d 100% rather play hockey in some small American market where no one knows who I am. But that’s not the case for all players. There are athletes who prefer the spot light. And if you don’t, leave.

 

[rypper]

Other than soccer teams.

You know what I retract my original post. It's early and answered as if you were talking about the media.

The fan base can be very hard on players if they appear they're not giving their all. But they can be very supportive too. Low lows but very high highs. Guys like bieksa talked about it, any team that wins it all for the city will be treated like Gods. But there'll always be the subset of really dumb fans. The ones still calling the twins the sisters even when they were winning art Ross and hart trophies. Calling Luongo a sieve when he's the best goalie the franchise has ever had.

 

[ManVanFan]

Again, most of the cities in NA have multiple teams in the big four. These other sports have much bigger fanbases.

Obviously there’s going to be hyper-focus on hockey given the lack of alternatives here.

But it’s not a this-city specific issue. Montreal, Toronto are harsher. Oilers fans are similar.

This fanbase also rallies behind their players more than most fanbases. Knicks fans standout similarly.

Now consider the national media focus that a lot of bigger teams in bigger sports get, and also combine that with the way Craig MacEwen & the team have shut down access for local media.

I’m not saying it’s nothing, but the only way the Vancouver Fans are the WORST thing holds any sort of validity is if you’re comparing against small market American teams with no other big four teams and also ignoring the context that they’re probably racially abusing college football and basketball athletes in Oklahama instead, and don’t care as much about the Thunder. But yeah, being a hockey player in Utah, or Seattle is going to be easier than in Vancouver when things go bad. But they aren’t going to celebrate players returning from personal events or performing the same way.

And if you can’t handle that, don’t sign here. It’s really that simple. Find guys who thrive and want that. There are always players who do want that.

—-

Not even specific to you, but I’ll never understand why so many people repeat the “omg our fans are the WORST” thing. Every fanbase says this. In every sport.

There are supporters groups in high level soccer in Europe tied to fascist, far-right political views. Fanbases who racially abuse players. Gambling frustration is voiced especially hard at basketball players. I’ve seen more harsh criticism at Vlad Guerrero on Twitter in the last five years than I should have given that I’m, at best, a casual Mariners fan.

It’s so weird. This thought process always gets points scored with twitter likes and there’s no real like dopamine on a forum which is why I further don’t get it.

From a relative lens, if we ranked the “harshest” markets for the biggest sports in each major north american sports cities, would Vancouver even sniff the top half?

Fwiw, i say all this but I’d 100% rather play hockey in some small American market where no one knows who I am. But that’s not the case for all players. There are athletes who prefer the spot light. And if you don’t, leave.

Certainly most of that is true. Basketball is the only major sport that doesn't interest me at all. Basketball is hilarious, pay a guy 50M a year to trade him next year, pay half his salary still while he plays for another team for the next 3 years. Trade a player 3 minutes after you just drafted him. It's more of a comedy than anything.

I cheer for Ac Milan and I've seen the "curve sud" demand face to face meetings with players when results are poor. It's definitely much much insane in soccer.

Winning or even being a great player just doesn't seem to unite this fan base.

You know what I retract my original post. It's early and answered as if you were talking about the media.

The fan base can be very hard on players if they appear they're not giving their all. But they can be very supportive too. Low lows but very high highs. Guys like bieksa talked about it, any team that wins it all for the city will be treated like Gods. But there'll always be the subset of really dumb fans. The ones still calling the twins the sisters even when they were winning art Ross and hart trophies. Calling Luongo a sieve when he's the best goalie the franchise has ever had.

They need help from the Lions or the Whitecaps to win a trophy to ease the pain on the Canucks for a while. Lol.

 

[TruGr1t]

Alright, here are my thoughts on the article.

First of all, Wow what a beauty of a article, lots of great quotes and discussions.

From what he is saying, the way I am taking it is that he thinks that Petey is immature, and most important did not take the offseason as serious as he should have.
Also clearly not a fan of his attitude this season.

I also took that Allvin and Rutherford are not massive fans of Pettersson, even if they signed him long term.
They already tried to trade him once, and it sure does feel they are going to take the best offers for JT Miller and Petey and make a call one way or another here.

Going from that, I feel Petey's time is done sooner than later.
I also feel that if Boeser is not signed by the deadline, he is gone also.

I still think it's unlikely they will move off Pettersson after signing that deal. It isn't like he signed the deal and then took a nosedive in terms of play. He has been this player basically since the all-star break last year, and has been a mercurial, moody figure for most of his career. So they knew the player when they signed him, not sure what would have changed now outside of team success, which is definitely not all on Pettersson.

They seemingly could have traded him approaching the deadline last year and didn't. I would be very surprised if they did anything drastic at this point given most of the issues stem from injuries and major errors in constructing the blue line. Demko's final status is also totally up in the air.

Boeser, yes, I do think there is a theme emerging there, and he might be done here.

 

[Bobby9]

EP for Beniers + would be intriguing,

Firkus or Rehkopf being the +

 

[Canucker]

And it would be nice to get McDavid for Miller in a trade. But that does not answer what I was talking about. How do we fit another $6M + player in and stay under the cap? Both now, and next year. And everybody's answer is always, well just get rid of the players I don't like and get more value then they are worth. Sure Weegar (sorry autocorrect) would be a great add, but I just don't see how we could fit him in.

I think the idea is adjusting your cap allocation from one area to another, you would likely be moving other pieces to create room to bring in a $6m player in an area of need...I think the window they've established is open and while I don't think they're going to sell the farm to make improvements I can't see them sitting on their hands if there are opportunities to address immediate needs.