Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Chaotic Times

[MS]

I disagree. He was benched after he was too busy yelling at Pettersson to take away a passing lane from the guy he was supposed to be defending. He’s had a bunch of boneheaded plays before and after that but never gotten benched. I don’t think the situations are really comparable.

I mean, that play wasn't an 'effort' issue. He was engaged fine but got mixed up on the coverage rotation. If something like that was worth a benching Tyler Myers would get benched 30 times a year. And going 'Petey, Petey!' is hardly some sort of mortal sin.

And it isn't like Pettersson isn't prone to this stuff, too. There was a play in the playoffs last year that sticks out where he turned the puck over on the near-side boards for a 2-on-1 and just stood there watching it instead of getting on his horse.

Boeser has had plenty of controller-disconnect moments under Tocchet, too.

Miller has been handled differently from everyone else by Tocchet.

I've mostly stayed out of this but I'd be curious to hear what your issue is with the Edge data?

All it does is tell you that some of his performance metrics are down. It doesn't tell you *why*. The Petey supporters have leaped to 'this PROVES hes's hurt' when it could just as easily mean the guy isn't engaged and competing as hard as usual and not putting himself into the red zone as often as when he's 'on'.

We only have seasonal data instead of game-by-game data and we can sort-of-see that the numbers are also down in 20-21 when he looked identical to this for a half-season with no knee tendonitis issues and if that's the case then we would know that it isn't injury related. But without game-by-game you can't prove that either. So in the end it tells us nothing aside from confirming that he's playing bad which our eyes were already telling us.

 

[December5th]

oiler fans on suicide watch

 

[Bgav]

Three games each ensures atleast fifty more pages of entertainment reading the oil coming unglued and embarrassing themselves

tHe MoDZ ARe agAINst Us

 

[bossram]

that is an incredible selective summary of pettersson. he's fallen off way harder than miller.

his shot rate has dropped 70% in two years and his shot attempts are down the same his shooting percentage has dropped as he takes less shots even though he won't shoot the puck unless he thinks he has a perfect shot.

his ratio of es to pp goals has gone from 4.5: 1 to 50/50.

one timers? what are those?

he clearly rushes any perimeter ozone possession including the pp. his priority is unloading the puck on hughes or miller if they are on the ice so they can make a play, and he hardly ever tries to make the play himself when they are on the ice.

he is painfully static on the pp in the ozone, never roving unless he is fleeing a check and never threatening a shot.

he regularly makes kamikaze ozone entries that lose the puck or he rushes a pass or dump in.

it is true that his puck hounding and defensive play have improved. but these are not qualities of a 1c. the ones i mentioned above are.

I mean, if you are trying to willfully misinterpret my argument, then sure. Otherwise, you haven't actually addressed anything I said.

I'm not arguing Petey's efficacy has drastically dropped. It has. Obviously.

I'm arguing against people saying Petey is "not competing". I don't think a guy that is a premium defensive forward and is the team's most consistent shot blocker, in addition to trying to throw his body around more than usual, is "not competing". He is trying. But obviously this is not the level they expect from him.

Meanwhile Miller goes controller disconnected mode every other game, has some of the laziest instances I've ever seen in the NHL, and pouts and cries and throws temper tantrums.

Playing "better" for a relatively short stretch, knowing the other guy is returning, is a lot different than feeling the pressure to sustain a level of play and production equal to his salary, in the full glare, in an environment where he'll be scrutinized like never before and with the cover gone for good. We'll see, I guess.

So when presented with evidence directly contrary to your "Petey will crumble without Miller" hypothesis, your reaction is to completely ignore it.

Got it man. You're not one to take seriously.

Like what is this nonsensical argument? The "cover will be gone" and he'll be "scrutinized like never before". Have you been in a cave for the last year? You think no one was heavily criticizing Petey?

 

[MS]

Both Myers and McDavid get 3 games.

Holy f***, they actually got it right-ish. I think McDavid's action was worse because it was on an unsuspecting player, and was more forceful, but this is about as appropriate a result as there was ever going to be.

 

[Dirtyclapper]

Both Myers and McDavid get 3 games.

Gj Garland hahah

 

[Dirtyclapper]

I mean, if you are trying to willfully misinterpret my argument, then sure. Otherwise, you haven't actually addressed anything I said.

I'm not arguing Petey's efficacy has drastically dropped. It has. Obviously.

I'm arguing against people saying Petey is "not competing". I don't think a guy that is a premium defensive forward and is the team's most consistent shot blocker, in addition to trying to throw his body around more than usual, is "not competing". He is trying. But obviously this is not the level they expect from him.

Meanwhile Miller goes controller disconnected mode every other game, has some of the laziest instances I've ever seen in the NHL, and pouts and cries and throws temper tantrums.


So when presented with evidence directly contrary to your "Petey will crumble without Miller" hypothesis, your reaction is to completely ignore it.

Got it man. You're not one to take seriously.

Like what is this nonsensical argument? The "cover will be gone" and he'll be "scrutinized like never before". Have you been in a cave for the last year? You think no one was heavily criticizing Petey?

Did you even watch the last game? Pettersson was floating around most the game besides about 10 minutes he came alive in the 3rd. I watched him float around the Blue line waiting for his wingers to dig the puck out of our end, good use of our 2 best wingers I guess.

 

[Nick Lang]

Like, I'm pretty sure if any of us had a coworker who was mailing it in day after day for months while the boss did nothing and you were picking up their slack, and then you take a long lunch once and get written up ... you'd be choked.

Miller handled a benching very well previously two seasons ago and responded with the best play of his career in the 1.5 seasons after that, and I think Tocchet misjudged the situation and went back to that well again at a time where the benching was bound to feel really unfair to Miller. Like, nobody else on this team got benched. Myers didn't get benched no matter what. Boeser didn't get benched no matter what. Pettersson didn't get benched no matter what. But because Miller is 'tougher' or better able to handle it or something he gets singled out.

In terms of their play, Miller even at his worst is still mostly competing and producing but then has random isolated plays where he just quits on the play. Even in that LA game, there was one play where he had a monster of a backcheck to negate an odd-man rush, and then just a godawful effort on a goal a few shifts later. Pettersson just goes into the void and doesn't compete for months. Miller's individual moments look worse but I think the whole overall 'thing' from Pettersson is worse.

I have to completely disagree. I don't see Petey not competing myself. He's trying hard and struggling a bit to be as good as we've seen before. This is common. Regardless, Miller is being a complete bitch if he's whining that others aren't getting treated like he is and therefore he's quitting and throwing the team under the bus. He should be worried about his own behavior.

 

[valkynax]

Both Myers and McDavid get 3 games.

Bonkers, they actually gave both three games? Was definitely expecting something like 1 game for McD and 2 for Myers.

Won't really affect Oilers though, Draisaitl has picked up the slack before and he'll certainly do it again.

 

[Vector]

Can now trade Miller before Thursday’s game without being worried about who will be matched against McDavid.

 

[MS]

I have to completely disagree. I don't see Petey not competing myself. He's trying hard and struggling a bit to be as good as we've seen before. This is common. Regardless, Miller is being a complete bitch if he's whining that others aren't getting treated like he is and therefore he's quitting and throwing the team under the bus. He should be worried about his own behavior.

Again, this most recent non-productive streak you can actually see some effort plays from Pettersson. At times. His 3rd period last night was noticeably better than the first 40 minutes.

Down the stretch last season and the start of this season the guy looked like a zombie going through the motions on the ice. It was pathetic. And same deal in the first half of 21-22. And same deal at the start of 20-21.

 

[Quinning]

I'm surprised McDavid got 3 games - I'd have expected 1 game for him and 2-3 for Myers. Good to see some consistency.

I expected McDavid to get a 5k fine...the max available under the current CBA.

 

[Hodgy]

Harsh disagree. It's not equivalent.

For this season, I strongly disagree that Petey has not been competing. He's trying. He's doing most of the right things. He's still hitting, blocking shots, making good defensive reads. Obviously he's not been as effective as he's expected to be. But he still has baseline professionalism on the ice (and off).

Miller literally just stops playing every other game. Pouts his way off the ice with his controller disconnected moments. Some of the laziest instances I've ever seen in the NHL are from him.

Again, no disagreement Petey has disappointed.

The argument from others is that Petey is "not competing". I don't think a guy that's "not competing" would be the team's best defensive forward overall and block shots consistently.

We know that every other game Miller throws a fit and just literally decides to stop playing.

The "competing" vs. "not competing" argument is a lot more nuanced than I think you are making it out to be. On the one hand, if you are simply equating "competing" with "visibly putting in effort on the ice" then I agree with you. Because I think Pettersson truly is trying when he is on the ice. He's obviously lost a ton of confidence, but I do think if you asked Pettersson whether is is giving 100% he would say yes. And I think that may be correct.

But I think "competing" is a lot more wholistic than that, and includes off ice preparation including both training and mental preparation. The "competing" doesn't just start on the ice, and in fact, never really ends. And I think most players in the NHL, and certainly most top players in the NHL, needs to be constantly "competing" and trying to get better day after day, and in fact, I think it is only those players with an incredibly high standard of success that are able to continue to excel and in fact improve. You can think of players like the Sedins that really demonstrate this quality. And I think if you don't have this high standard for success, and don't consistently apply yourself towards that standard, then you will regress even if you look to be "trying" on the ice.

And unfortunately, the regression isn't overnight, its a slow steady process. So a player can continue to get statistical results, for the most part, while this regression sets in. And then the statistical results start to wane, and the player enters a slump, and it becomes really difficult for the player to work himself out of hte slump as he has slowly regressed for days and weeks.

And this is what I think may have happened to Pettersson and I said this much months ago, and the pro-Pettersson crowd laughed at me. But, since then, Allvin has publicly came out and made very similar statement.

So, to make a long story short, I agree that Pettersson is "trying" on the ice, but I don't think he is "trying" or "competing" enough from a longer term wholistic approach. And I think this is why Pettersson hasn't been benched because there is no singular moment where he's given as bad as an effort as Miller has.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Juulsen bumping up into the Top 4?

Good lord.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Colour me pleasantly surprised they actually treated McDavid and Myers equally.

 

[VanJack]

If reports surfacing are accurate, that the Rangers were offering Chytil, Lindgren and a conditional first round draft pick (I suspect either this year or next at the Rangers option), it's hardly surprising the deal foundered.

In fact, if that was the trade then Canuck fans would have revolted, if Allvin had accepted it. And I' d be surprised if the Canucks and Rangers were even that 'close' as is being reported.

It's going to be difficult, it not impossible, to get value for Milller, mid-season. They'd be better off trying to heal the rifts in the room.....but if that proves impossible, then deal him over the summer when the list of teams and potential returns will be far greater.

 

[pitseleh]

I mean, that play wasn't an 'effort' issue. He was engaged fine but got mixed up on the coverage rotation. If something like that was worth a benching Tyler Myers would get benched 30 times a year. And going 'Petey, Petey!' is hardly some sort of mortal sin.

I don’t think there’s a problem with directing traffic, but (maybe I see it differently) when I watch the play it looks like he gets mixed up because he’s too busy directing traffic.

The public info about Miller has been that he needs to worry less about what others are doing and focus on his own play and I’m sure he’s been told as much. There’s already been the Schenn and Delia incidents.

We probably won’t ever know, but I don’t think that it is a surprise that that specific incident triggered a benching when so many others didn’t.

 

[krutovsdonut]

I mean, if you are trying to willfully misinterpret my argument, then sure. Otherwise, you haven't actually addressed anything I said.

I'm not arguing Petey's efficacy has drastically dropped. It has. Obviously.

I'm arguing against people saying Petey is "not competing". I don't think a guy that is a premium defensive forward and is the team's most consistent shot blocker, in addition to trying to throw his body around more than usual, is "not competing". He is trying. But obviously this is not the level they expect from him.

Meanwhile Miller goes controller disconnected mode every other game, has some of the laziest instances I've ever seen in the NHL, and pouts and cries and throws temper tantrums.

if i misconstrued your argument, apologies, but there was nothing wilful about it. your argument was extremely selective. pettersson is making very little effort at what he does best and what he is paid to do. the fact he is making a reasonable professional effort to be a responsible third line checker does not change that. loui eriksson after we signed him stopped trying hard to score greasy goals but he played reasonably hard at being a responsible third line checker and superficially you could not fault his professionalism. however, he was not paid to be a third line winger and you can't tell me that something didn't happen to make eriksson consciously play out his career the way he did. maybe fear of an injury. maybe he actually lost it. maybe a problem with the team or teammates. who knows. all i know is he quit being the guy we signed.

miller otoh still shows us the game we know half the time and we have seen miller do this and snap out of it.

 

[ihaveyuidonttouchme]

Do people just generally forget all the turn overs miller was responsible for few years prior and this whole season in the overtime hello?

I Can vouch that he can try to shut other top lines down but feel like his turn over rate is severely underlookoked as much as what Petey does defensive perspective

 

[iceburg]

NHL video on Myers' suspension 1:39 long
NHL video on McDavid's suspension 1:36 long

Oilers Board is going to have a meltdown that Myers got 3 more seconds than McDavid.

 

[Orr4Norris]

Colour me pleasantly surprised they actually treated McDavid and Myers equally.

I think if he hadn’t done that egregious headshot the game before, he probably would have gotten one game. I’m guessing the NHL decided enough is enough and that they had better send a message.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Live footage of McBaby:

 

[Curm]

So when presented with evidence directly contrary to your "Petey will crumble without Miller" hypothesis, your reaction is to completely ignore it.

Got it man. You're not one to take seriously.

Like what is this nonsensical argument? The "cover will be gone" and he'll be "scrutinized like never before". Have you been in a cave for the last year? You think no one was heavily criticizing Petey?

I gave him credit when he played "better", they'll need more than that from him, and for longer, is what I'm saying. Sorry, you're unable to comprehend that, I thought I was clear.

Miller returned December 12, on December 31 MacIntyre posted the much talked about Q&A where Allvin states:

Petey has shown up to this point that he is an extremely talented, quality player that could and should be a No. 1 centre. I believe in him. I believe that he's capable. (But) he needs to mature and understand that there are certain expectations and it does not get easier. And you need to face the music when things don't go well. Is it (a trade) possible? I guess I would say anything is possible.

Maybe "better" for that limited period wasn't good enough for the team? We'll see how he faces the music, Miller's been a far more frequent media fronting player than EP40 and practically everybody but maybe Hughes, and $11.6 million is a lot of money.

No, I guess not. lol

We'll see, I wish him well.

 

[Vector]

Juulsen bumping up into the Top 4?

Good lord.

He's still out.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

He's still out.

Hopefully forever.