Grub's Canucks & NHL News, Rumours, and & Fantasy GM | Chaotic Times

[arttk]

I want to believe they are just saying that to save face, because the alternative of "yeah, it really sucks and it's costing us games", while true, isn't a good PR strategy.



Demko and Silovs have been horrendous. Lankinen has been steady but isn't a true #1 behind a below average defensive core.



Juulsen has 0 points and is -11 in 32 games. Might be the worst player in the entire NHL.

Juulsen is like a 7-8 guy, of course he’s crap. He’s also playing because of all the injuries.

 

[xtr3m]

Management completely botched this by letting it circulate that Miller's absence was anything more than an undisclosed injury. There would have been a bit of speculation but nothing like what has happened because of them calling it a "personal leave". Adding "I'm proud of JT for seeking help and I believes he's going to be a better person, better teammate and a better player" was pouring gas on the fire.

Allvin needs to do a better job of shutting the f*** up sometimes.

A historical, probably franchise-altering blunder.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Juulsen is like a 7-8 guy, of course he’s crap. He’s also playing because of all the injuries.

Ehhh. I dunno about that. Even without the injuries, we're so weak on defense, it's very likely he draws in fairly often. It's not like Desharnais has been great either and Tocchet seems to adore Juulsen for some ungodly reason.

 

[credulous]

teams are way more plugged in than fans. the canucks claiming miller was injured instead of whatever his absence really was wouldn't have changed a thing

management (and coaching) failed when they let an unsustainable (and allegedly toxic) situation fester for too long. they should have taken steps to fix it sooner

 

[MS]

the canucks have the third lowest xGA/60 next to LA and FLA, but have gotten crap goaltending. so yes they can actually defend.

the problem is xGF/60 is 5th worst lol

Yeah, weird thing for people to take issue with. Our defense is legitimately good at defending and limiting shots and chances. It's a totally correct statement. 3rd-lowest xGA/60 and 3rd-fewest shots allowed in the NHL. The 2nd and 3rd pairings are just totally incapable of transitioning the puck.

The issue 'defensively' is that we have the league's 30th ranked goaltending because Demko and Silovs have given us 16 starts at a combined .862.

 

[Tinhorn1]

Linked Teams

• New York Rangers
• Dallas Stars
• New Jersey Devils
• Carolina Hurricanes
• Utah Hockey Club

What Team Executives Think:

• E1: Extremely difficult move and would wait to make a trade
• E2: Thinks a roster player with a 1st or 2nd round pick unless it’s an elite player coming back
• E3: If his team were involved they wouldn’t putting their best assets on the table; maybe a younger NHL centre and a pick; impact centre or defencemen will be hard to come by
• E4: Canucks are up against it and operating from a position of weakness; NMC drops his value; mid-level positional player, a 1st, and prospect

What Agents Think:

• A1: 1st round pick and a player but depends on the player coming back
• A2: Won’t be nearly as much as the Canucks would like; age and contract don’t help his value; situation in the room is a big story and killed leverage; getting a couple of decent roster players and a pick or prospect would be enough; need a fresh start in the dressing room

What Scouts Think:

• S1: Most contending teams would love to add Miller; wonders if the juice is worth the squeeze; return will be much less than people think

In other words, management's compete inability to stfu and keep things quiet has tanked his value.

On the other hand, don't really get the notion that the Canucks are "up against it." Whether they move Miller or not is completely discretionary.

 

[Quinning]

A historical, probably franchise-altering blunder.

It's honestly Benning-level. Not on the level of OEL bad, but it's down there. I have to think JR reamed him out for saying that publicly.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

Best course we can take is hold onto Miller for now and if we still feel we need to move him by seasons end it'll be alot easier in the off season. Not to mention we'll get more value.

 

[Quinning]

teams are way more plugged in than fans. the canucks claiming miller was injured instead of whatever his absence really was wouldn't have changed a thing

management (and coaching) failed when they let an unsustainable (and allegedly toxic) situation fester for too long. they should have taken steps to fix it sooner

That's at the heart of it, but the way they handled his absence was making a bad situation considerably worse.

We're essentially trying to sell a car to a dealership when that dealership knows everything possible that's wrong with the car and also knows we have to sell it or we will be in for a world of hurt.

 

[Hodgy]

If this is really all it boils down to, I’m not sure they’re backing the right horse, especially with the rumoured returns for Miller.

Ya, this probably isn't getting enough debate on here. I get the general idea that we should prefer Pettersson because he is young, but that also largely ignores how each has played over the last year. And I think if Pettersson was even just humming around at a 70 point pace over the last year then it would be a relatively easy decision. But that's not the case, and Pettersson is scoring at like a 50 point pace or whatever over the last year, and it really can't be overstated just how terrible that production is for an 11.6 million dollar player. As bad as Miller has been, he's still at a .85 ppg clip this year, and that's with him coming out of the line up for ten games and needing to come back in cold. And of course Miller looked excellent, and full marks, from January through the playoffs last year.

On top of all of this is the general manager publicly calling out Pettersson for his preparation, mental fortitude and general compete, whereas we haven't heard the same criticism of Miller.

And the reality is, if Pettersson doesn't turn his game around, then he's going to sink the Canucks long term plans. He will be our Seth Jones type player. Of course, Pettersson could also turn his game around and take the GM's criticism to heart, in which case we'd all be happy he wasn't traded.

It would be basically impossible to move Pettersson's salary right now. If keeping them both is not an option for the rest of the season, Miller is likely their only choice.

People point out his no trade protection but at the end of the day no team is going to trade for him and his $90m in salary without making 100% sure he wants to be there.

Ya, there are a ton of big Pettersson fans on here, but I'd imagine most GMs would be hesitant to acquire a 90 million dollar contract when the player in question has scored at a 50 point pace for the last year. People use the Jack Eichel trade as a comparison, and I get why, and certainly Eichel appears to have had far more significant / risk injury concerns, but he also basically scored at a point per game before being traded, so he didn't have close to the type of "on ice" risk that Pettersson has.

 

[PavelBure10]

Allvin was spectacular last season as GM, this season not so much.

 

[Hodgy]

Yeah, weird thing for people to take issue with. Our defense is legitimately good at defending and limiting shots and chances. It's a totally correct statement. 3rd-lowest xGA/60 and 3rd-fewest shots allowed in the NHL. The 2nd and 3rd pairings are just totally incapable of transitioning the puck.

The issue 'defensively' is that we have the league's 30th ranked goaltending because Demko and Silovs have given us 16 starts at a combined .862.

For sure. But you can't look at "defending" in isolation. Like, you abandon all hope of scoring with two pairings on the ice but are good at "defending", that still isn't a good result.

I always remember Vigneault's Canucks as a good example of this At the beginning of his tenure, they defended very well (and got elite goaltending) but what made that team great was being able to transition from just defending to defending and scoring.

 

[LemonSauceD]

If Miller isn’t getting the best value in a return, then I’d keep him and start shopping Pettersson.

Only one of them have to go to fix the locker room issue. IMO, it should be whoever fetches us the best possible return.

 

[Diversification]

He has to play coy about the deficiencies in our blueline. It's the only way to not tank your leverage in trade talks even if it's vranyo.

 

[TruGr1t]

 

[MS]

For sure. But you can't look at "defending" in isolation. Like, you abandon all hope of scoring with two pairings on the ice but are good at "defending", that still isn't a good result.

I always remember Vigneault's Canucks as a good example of this At the beginning of his tenure, they defended very well (and got elite goaltending) but what made that team great was being able to transition from just defending to defending and scoring.

Of course. The mix on our 2nd and 3rd pairings is a total mess and we can't transition the puck.

But Allvin saying they do actually do the main defensive job of playing good defense is totally fair. It isn't like the Benning-era Canucks bluelines that were bottom-5 in the NHL at both ends of the rink.

 

[Lat]

If Miller isn’t getting the best value in a return, then I’d keep him and start shopping Pettersson.

Only one of them have to go to fix the locker room issue. IMO, it should be whoever fetches us the best possible return.

Theoretically, yes. Personnel-wise, you run the risk of Hughes not being happy and not wanting to re-sign as a UFA if you trade his roommate.

 

[Quinning]

Best course we can take is hold onto Miller for now and if we still feel we need to move him by seasons end it'll be alot easier in the off season. Not to mention we'll get more value.

Christ, just by waiting until the deadline we'll get more value than today. We can publicly show that the core is on its way to getting past this. Names will come off the board and teams will get more desperate. Everyone is just trying to rip us off right now.

I've always figured that he blew up at Tocchet for benching him while Pettersson hasn't been benched despite having similar down year offensively, and Tocchet told him to f*** off and learn his place.

Management found out and forced JT to take time away from the team.

 

[wonton15]

This was always the most likely reason for the leave in my mind, with his injuries hampering his ability to fully perform causing him to check out and leading to this.

 

[bossram]

I've always figured that he blew up at Tocchet for benching him while Pettersson hasn't been benched despite having similar down year offensively, and Tocchet told him to f*** off and learn his place.

Management found out and forced JT to take time away from the team.

This is what I've said for a long time, and was the obvious cause of the leave of absence, yet people ripped me for it.

It was clear it was some kind of incident with the team, and that the club told him to get lost and cool down for a while.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Of course. The mix on our 2nd and 3rd pairings is a total mess and we can't transition the puck.

But Allvin saying they do actually do the main defensive job of playing good defense is totally fair. It isn't like the Benning-era Canucks bluelines that were bottom-5 in the NHL at both ends of the rink.

people forget that travis green teams were literally curling the puck to get a clearance far enough to get a line change. that was the defensive system.

 

[supercanuck]

If Miller isn’t getting the best value in a return, then I’d keep him and start shopping Pettersson.

Only one of them have to go to fix the locker room issue. IMO, it should be whoever fetches us the best possible return.

I don't believe that is true. If EP was traded to appease him, he will just eventually choose someone else to pick on.

EDIT: Or one of the coaches I guess.

 

[Quinning]

This is what I've said for a long time, and was the obvious cause of the leave of absence, yet people ripped me for it.

It was clear it was some kind of incident with the team, and that the club told him to get lost and cool down for a while.

It makes a lot of sense when you consider

- The previous and ongoing bad blood between the players, reaching a fever pitch during the post Oilers series. Very possible that Miller blames Pettersson for the team losing, might be an open secret in the room.
- Miller and his reputation as a hot head that wears his heart on his sleeve
- Tocchet and his reputation as a hardass that doesn't take shit from his players

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

What do you guys expect Allvin to say? “That our defence sucks and I’m looking for a trade.” This isn’t Benning where he speaks whatever that comes to his mind. He’s trying to keep some leverage in a trade and trying not to appear desperate. Plus he said capable, not good. This is pretty much GM speak for the blueline is bad.

 

[pitseleh]

And the reality is, if Pettersson doesn't turn his game around, then he's going to sink the Canucks long term plans. He will be our Seth Jones type player. Of course, Pettersson could also turn his game around and take the GM's criticism to heart, in which case we'd all be happy he wasn't traded.

The bigger problem is that if they trade Miller for something like the rumoured Rangers deal, you need a massive rebound from Pettersson to make it work. Pettersson would likely sink the Canucks even if he is only ok for his contract, let alone if he Seth Jones-level bad value. At that point you’re banking on him returning to being a 90-100 point, Selke vote getting player to have any chance of competing over the next few years before Hughes hits FA.

Whereas if you deal Pettersson you might get enough back / enough cap space to continue to make a run at things.