GDT: Group B - May 18 - Sweden vs Switzerland *Mod Warning Post 55*

[Chimpradamus]

"Nylander is one of the best players in the game when he has space & time, the game isn't overtly physical and he plays in one of the best teams against opponents that generally are a bit worse to incredibly worse."

^that would have been the right statement.

Unfortunately for him, in the NHL there's very little space & time and the game is much more physical than at the world's. Come playoffs time, it gets exponentially worse.
And he won't surely be playing against the likes of Italy, Latvia, Norway, etc etc.

"One of the best players in the game", without injuries & playing in a team that is top 10 in the league & has at least 3-4 stars (= Nylander isn't exactly tasked with dragging the Leafs to stardom all by himself, is he?), won't generate a 30 points season in 61 games (54 +7).
Playing for Sweden he's a lion, playing for the Leafs he's a very soft player who likes to stay on the perimeter.

Or, playing for Sweden he's put in a position to succeed, playing for the Leafs, their management seems hellbent to make him fail. Lowballing him for half a year and then putting him with players that don't play or see the game like he does, at all.

Sure, Lundqvist implied Nylander is world class in international hockey, but that he struggles in an extreme season, playing in a bathtub, in the American cutthroat entertainment industry doesn't say much. That's surely within any deviances for any young player that has tried to play hockey in the entertainment industry called the NHL.

I don't think he would have so much off-ice problems in a sports league. Nylander has merely shown what he can do when he plays for an elite team. But sure, it's not a secret that skilled players prefer playing open hockey, where not every zone entry is followed by what looks like the opening of a gay soft-core porn movie, like the NHL playoffs.

Because 10 players constantly hugging and interfering with eachother is so entertaining. So many games already this IIHF tournament have been so much more enjoyable to watch than any playoff hugfest grinding game. The NHL could remove the puck from the game and still have a spectacle to sell.

 

[jj cale]

Or, playing for Sweden he's put in a position to succeed, playing for the Leafs, their management seems hellbent to make him fail. Lowballing him for half a year and then putting him with players that don't play or see the game like he does, at all.

Sure, Lundqvist implied Nylander is world class in international hockey, but that he struggles in an extreme season, playing in a bathtub, in the American cutthroat entertainment industry doesn't say much. That's surely within any deviances for any young player that has tried to play hockey in the entertainment industry called the NHL.

I don't think he would have so much off-ice problems in a sports league. Nylander has merely shown what he can do when he plays for an elite team. But sure, it's not a secret that skilled players prefer playing open hockey, where not every zone entry is followed by what looks like the opening of a gay soft-core porn movie, like the NHL playoffs.

Because 10 players constantly hugging and interfering with eachother is so entertaining. So many games already this IIHF tournament have been so much more enjoyable to watch than any playoff hugfest grinding game. The NHL could remove the puck from the game and still have a spectacle to sell.

He has some valid points about Nylander, you make a few too.

But I've watched most of the games here at the WWC and pretty much all of the n.h.l playoffs and 90% of the games in the playoffs has been far better hockey then the games at the WHC so far, I mean how much fun is it for you to watch 9-1 drubbings on a regular basis? Even plenty of the close games have been sloppy, slow low energy affairs, in a a word, boring.

To each his own but I do not understand how any neutral fan who has no continental agenda would prefer most of the hockey at this thing to the N.H.L playoffs, there's usually just more and better action.

 

[Chimpradamus]

He has some valid points about Nylander, you make a few too.

But I've watched most of the games here at the WWC and pretty much all of the n.h.l playoffs and 90% of the games in the playoffs has been far better hockey then the games at the WHC so far, I mean how much fun is it for you to watch 9-1 drubbings on a regular basis? Even plenty of the close games have been sloppy, slow low energy affairs, in a a word, boring.

To each his own but I do not understand how any neutral fan who has no continental agenda would prefer most of the hockey at this thing to the N.H.L playoffs, there's usually just more and better action.

The question is why he's so much better in this enviroment. It's not that he plays against inferior competition, neither is it the bigger ice surface. We have world class talent to verify that. It's that he plays in an enviroment where he can relax and just play hockey his way - and have fun at it, not gripping his stick.

Kucherov plays just like he usually does, while Nylander producing nearly as Kucherov is a big excuse in various answers. Why? Maybe because Kucherov plays in Tampa, playing the game that he likes, while Nylander is stuck in Toronto, fighting business deals, an insane media and a hockey style that doesn't exactly suit him. Even if Leafs fans have seen a taste of what Nylander can do, I'm not so sure it should be developed in Toronto.

Sure, Kucherov is better than Nylander, but Nylander isn't exactly maximizing his playing abilities in Toronto either. A franchise too big for its own reputation and history, to be able to succeed.

I would be happy if Toronto traded Nylander, for Nylander's sake. And then Toronto can stop bitching about it.

 

[jj cale]

The question is why he's so much better in this enviroment. It's not that he plays against inferior competition, neither is it the bigger ice surface. It's that he plays in an enviroment where he can relax and just play hockey - and have fun.

Kucherov plays just like he usually does, while Nylander producing nearly as Kucherov is a big excuse in various answers. Why? Maybe because Kucherov plays in Tampa, playing the game that he likes, while Nylander is stuck in Toronto, fighting business deals, an insane media and a hockey style that doesn't exactly suit him. Sure, Kucherov is better than Nylander, but Nylander isn't exactly maximizing his playing abilities in Toronto either. A franchise too big for its own reputation and history, to be able to succeed.

It could be that, it could be that he isn't as good as Kucherov either which I think most hockey fans being honest would agree with.


The toronto media stuff, etc is all just speculation here, and it's dubious speculation since all this stuff doesn't seem to affect Matthews,Marner,Tavares to toss out a few names.

Your theory is a real reach here. But you may be right I suppose, but how can we know that?

 

[Chimpradamus]

It could be that, it could be that he isn't as good as Kucherov either which I think most hockey fans being honest would agree with.


The toronto media stuff, etc is all just speculation here, and it's dubious speculation since all this stuff doesn't seem to affect Matthews,Marner,Tavares to toss out a few names.

Your theory is a real reach here. But you may be right I suppose, but how can we know that?

Sure, I also believe Kucherov is a better player than Nylander, no questions asked. Of course the infamous Toronto media, the mass hounding of Nylander not performing and all that is just speculation, but maybe we can speculate Nylander is a young hockey player that has a hard time ignoring all that? Maybe that's also a quite obvious statement to the previous one you made, which I already agreed to?

Of course I don't think Nylander is as good as Kucherov, but I also don't think the toxic enviroment in Toronto is the proper enviroment for Nylander to grow in as a player, considering all the media drama after the franchise held him at gunpoint while lowballing him. What a great show of trust from Toronto towards Nylander. Why do you think his old dad told him to hold out? Because he knows what snakes in ties are made of. The only promises made are from the players.

Of course Nylander can still be an elite player in Toronto, but my guess is he'll be gone as soon as he can. Trust works both ways. They were in the end ready to sacrifice a whole season of development for one of their golden cows, because they saw it as their privilege to dictate all the terms, even if they offend the golden cow (who 95% of the time budges). Kind of like negotiations during lockouts play out. Only scorning him to set a message was apparently enough, when the golden cow wouldn't budge.

You know, I think Toronto deserved the subpar delivery by Nylander last season. It kind of bounces around.

 

[jj cale]

Sure, I also believe Kucherov is a better player than Nylander, no questions asked. Of course the infamous Toronto media, the mass hounding of Nylander not performing and all that is just speculation, but maybe we can speculate Nylander is a young hockey player that has a hard time ignoring all that? Maybe that's also a quite obvious statement to the previous one you made, which I already agreed to?

Of course I don't think Nylander is as good as Kucherov, but I also don't think the toxic enviroment in Toronto is the proper enviroment for Nylander to grow in as a player, not considering all the media drama after the franchise held him at gunpoint while lowballing him. What a great show of trust from Toronto towards Nylander. Why do you think his old dad told him to hold out? Because he knows what snakes in ties are made of.

Of course Nylander can still be an elite player in Toronto, but my guess is he'll be gone as soon as he can. Trust works both ways. They were in the end ready to sacrifice a whole season of development for one of their golden cows, because they saw it as their privilege. Kind of like negotiations during lockouts play out. Only scorning him to set a message was apparently enough, when the golden cow wouldn't budge.

There is always two sides to every story and Nylander wasn't just some victim in those negotiations, he and his agent were fairly standoffish also, it takes two to tango.

Of course none of that stuff has much to do with who he is currently as a player and if the media and things bother him in Toronto while it doesn't for others players who are better then him to boot that is not Torontos fault either..............that's his shit and he will either have to overcome it or sink.

maybe it's time for him to move on in a trade and be in an enviroment with zero pressure if he cannot handle that stuff, Florida panthers perhaps?

 

[Nithoniniel]

maybe it's time for him to move on in a trade and be in an enviroment with zero pressure if he cannot handle that stuff, Florida panthers perhaps?

I don't think there's any indication that Nylander can't handle the pressure. From what I've heard, he legitimately loves Toronto and really wants to stay, which is pretty amazing considering how much vicious crap is tossed his way. It really doesn't seem to bother him at all.

This season was a pretty crap one where he was way behind when he came back, had to play catchup through most of the remaining season, and as a result he was often not put in a position to succeed. When he finally was towards the end of the season, he played some of his best hockey.

It all starts with the contract negotiation, and the hard stance he took, which means that the root problem for this season still lands on his shoulder. I just expect him to be much, much better going forward, because the circumstances of this season won't repeat themselves.

 

[Star Ocean]

maybe it's time for him to move on in a trade and be in an enviroment with zero pressure if he cannot handle that stuff, Florida panthers perhaps?

I think babcock is the problem. Too much of an old school coach.

Nylander is told to be creative and play how he wants on team sweden.

On the Leafs, babcock seems to have him on a short leash.

A trade like willliam Karlsson would do him good.

 

[jj cale]

I don't think there's any indication that Nylander can't handle the pressure. From what I've heard, he legitimately loves Toronto and really wants to stay, which is pretty amazing considering how much vicious crap is tossed his way. It really doesn't seem to bother him at all.

This season was a pretty crap one where he was way behind when he came back, had to play catchup through most of the remaining season, and as a result he was often not put in a position to succeed. When he finally was towards the end of the season, he played some of his best hockey.

It all starts with the contract negotiation, and the hard stance he took, which means that the root problem for this season still lands on his shoulder. I just expect him to be much, much better going forward, because the circumstances of this season won't repeat themselves.

I think he will rebound also, too much skill not to.

I was just responding to that posters speculation that it is all the medias and fans fault and Nylander is just some poor kid overwhelmed by it all, he wanted the money and was willing to sit out half a season to get it, Well, then you have to actually perform, that's the way it goes. Until he once again does, expect heat, especially in a Canadian market like Toronto.

It's all on him now, he got his contract.

 

[jj cale]

I think babcock is the problem. Too much of an old school coach.

Nylander is told to be creative and play how he wants on team sweden.

On the Leafs, babcock seems to have him on a short leash.

A trade like willliam Karlsson would do him good.

He's produced at a tender age under babcock before, he plays with great players, I don't buy it's Babcocks fault if he doesn't produce.

Anyway, i am sure he will right the ship next season, he's a good player.