Gretzky Bros Vs The Hughes Bros

[WTG]

Frankly, it doesn't surprise me much, some people these days have a really hard time understanding the gravitational reality we live in, like all these ***** driving while looking at their phones

It's to be expected, most people can't do conditional hyptheticals.

Wason selection task - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You are shown a set of four cards placed on a table, each of which has a number on one side and a color on the other. The visible faces of the cards show 3, 8, blue and red. Which card(s) must you turn over in order to test that if a card shows an even number on one face, then its opposite face is blue?

Spoiler: Answer

You turn over the 8 and red card.

"In Wason's study, not even 10% of subjects found the correct solution"

 

[North Cole]

It's to be expected, most people can't do conditional hyptheticals.

Wason selection task - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Spoiler: Answer

You turn over the 8 and red card.

"In Wason's study, not even 10% of subjects found the correct solution"

I think part of what makes it hard is that we've been trained that most of these tests are slanted toward pattern recognition. So rather than treat the cards as discrete objects we assume they are all tied together. I would flip the 3 and 8 expecting to see red on the 3 and blue on the 8, thus odd cards are red and blue cards are even. But it very well could be odd, even, odd, odd and technically work just fine because the blue-odd doesn't matter when the question is trying to disprove that even face cards must be blue.

It seems to me the test is less about whether you can do a conditional hypothetical, and more about whether you can stop yourself from starting with a faulty assumption. Of course we do better when it's policing a social rule because we are not pre-programmed to boil it down into a pattern recognition test.

I wonder if younger test subjects would have more success.

I'm also not sure this supports the other posters argument because the conditional in this case is that you don't need to keep Wayne's brothers. If I can literally waive them, then I'm not really comparing Wayne and his brothers to the Hughes brothers. I'm comparing adding Wayne to a team and the difference between him and the player he replaces. To the difference between the guys the Hughes brothers replace. Which although are bottom pairing and fourth line players, are not actually as bad as Wayne's brothers.

 

[dirtydanglez]

quinn hughes just demanded a trade to the gretzky side.

 

[Legionnaire11]

The only way the Hughes' win this is in the completely unrealistic fantasy scenario where both teams are made of completely equal replacement level players.

Any other situation and Gretzky is the answer.


That and I assume the people saying "do you not know how good the Hughes are?" probably actually don't know how good Wayne was.

 

[BlueSeal]

There is one factor everyone seems to be missing and the OP left out: Who are the netminders?

 

[gritdash60]

There is one factor everyone seems to be missing and the OP left out: Who are the netminders?

You could put Luke and Brent in the net and Gretzky brothers still win.

 

[Xspyrit]

I'm also not sure this supports the other posters argument because the conditional in this case is that you don't need to keep Wayne's brothers. If I can literally waive them, then I'm not really comparing Wayne and his brothers to the Hughes brothers. I'm comparing adding Wayne to a team and the difference between him and the player he replaces. To the difference between the guys the Hughes brothers replace. Which although are bottom pairing and fourth line players, are not actually as bad as Wayne's brothers.

Agreed, I think the poll just leaves too much for interpretation. IMO poll questions should be as explicit as possible and don't leave place for different scenarios.

It's like criterias for prospect eligibility. I have been running ranking polls on the Sens board for years and I have seen people come up with so many different eligibility criterias... it's almost like everyone has their own way of considering a player as a prospect or not. But I always stuck with HF initial criterias which was under 25 y/o and 65 NHL games experience for skaters. At some point, you have to be black or white.

The only way the Hughes' win this is in the completely unrealistic fantasy scenario where both teams are made of completely equal replacement level players.

lol you're comparing 3 players vs 3 players, OF COURSE everything else is equal

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

lol you're comparing 3 players vs 3 players, OF COURSE everything else is equal

I thought this would be obvious to everyone but apparently its not

 

[Xspyrit]

I thought this would be obvious to everyone but apparently its not

The lack of logic I see a bit everywhere makes me worried.

 

[North Cole]

Agreed, I think the poll just leaves too much for interpretation. IMO poll questions should be as explicit as possible and don't leave place for different scenarios.

It's like criterias for prospect eligibility. I have been running ranking polls on the Sens board for years and I have seen people come up with so many different eligibility criterias... it's almost like everyone has their own way of considering a player as a prospect or not. But I always stuck with HF initial criterias which was under 25 y/o and 65 NHL games experience for skaters. At some point, you have to be black or white.



lol you're comparing 3 players vs 3 players, OF COURSE everything else is equal

Yeah I agree, I mean if I was forced to ice both trios I don't remotely consider taking the Gretzky's.

But if I'm substituting any number of these players onto a real team, like EDM, I think for now I take Wayne. I personally think adding Wayne to EDM in place of Dereck Ryan just works better. Wayne > McDavid on the first line. Drai on the third line > Jack Hughes. Quinn becomes our best defenseman by a long shot, Quinn > Emberson and Luke > Stetcher as the players they replace. Cap savings is close to nil since Gretzky on a max contract is basically equal to the current Hughes' contracts. In a couple years when their cap hits are bigger I probably would take them over a max contract Gretzky since savings 22M+ is significantly better.

But like you said, that becomes an insane amount of extra work to get to a sensible answer and kind of defeats the purpose of making a poll.

 

[Xspyrit]

Yeah I agree, I mean if I was forced to ice both trios I don't remotely consider taking the Gretzky's.

But if I'm substituting any number of these players onto a real team, like EDM, I think for now I take Wayne. I personally think adding Wayne to EDM in place of Dereck Ryan just works better. Wayne > McDavid on the first line. Drai on the third line > Jack Hughes. Quinn becomes our best defenseman by a long shot, Quinn > Emberson and Luke > Stetcher as the players they replace. Cap savings is close to nil since Gretzky on a max contract is basically equal to the current Hughes' contracts. In a couple years when their cap hits are bigger I probably would take them over a max contract Gretzky since savings 22M+ is significantly better.

But like you said, that becomes an insane amount of extra work to get to a sensible answer and kind of defeats the purpose of making a poll.

Yeah so here you just invented your own scenario, there could be 99 different scenarios. Which is why I opted for pure logic.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

The lack of logic I see a bit everywhere makes me worried.

I see it as you put the 3 Waynes with 16 Brendan Gallaghers Vs the 3 Hughes with 16 Brendan Gallaghers who is the better team lol

Just the fact you have a top 3 D in the league eating 30 minutes of the game is huge

 

[Xspyrit]

I see it as you put the 3 Waynes with 16 Brendan Gallaghers Vs the 3 Hughes with 16 Brendan Gallaghers who is the better team lol

Just the fact you have a top 3 D in the league eating 30 minutes of the game is huge

Just saw on NHL edge that Luke Hughes is actually one of the fastest skaters among D-men in the league. We talk about Jack and Quinn here but Luke over one of Wayne's bros is also huuuuuuge.

 

[Legionnaire11]

Agreed, I think the poll just leaves too much for interpretation. IMO poll questions should be as explicit as possible and don't leave place for different scenarios.

It's like criterias for prospect eligibility. I have been running ranking polls on the Sens board for years and I have seen people come up with so many different eligibility criterias... it's almost like everyone has their own way of considering a player as a prospect or not. But I always stuck with HF initial criterias which was under 25 y/o and 65 NHL games experience for skaters. At some point, you have to be black or white.



lol you're comparing 3 players vs 3 players, OF COURSE everything else is equal

OP literally says "they don't count against your team's salary cap" and "you can trade them".

If both teams were identical, the cap implications wouldn't matter. Trading also means you can use them to get different players, which wouldn't make any sense if all other players are identical.


The OP is literally asking about adding them to your team, not a team comprised completely of Brendan Gallaghers. They also reference exchanging them for different players than the ones in your team, implying that not every non-Gretzky/non-Hughes player in the league is identical.

Applying the concept to real world situations is where thought can flourish and answers can be found. Making the assumption that all other components are equal removes the need to ask the question in the first place as it simply becomes a "who is better" question, you're simply comparing 3v3, rather than actually answering the question that was posed "Which group would you add to your team"

But go on about a lack of logic.

 

[Xspyrit]

OP literally says "they don't count against your team's salary cap" and "you can trade them".

If both teams were identical, the cap implications wouldn't matter. Trading also means you can use them to get different players, which wouldn't make any sense if all other players are identical.

Which makes the poll totally impossible to answer. I talked about it already...

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

Hughes bros. likely better at both end of ice, so won't need gaudy scoring/assist totals to make their teams win. Also the health issues are a maybe factor, once Gary Suter apocalypsed Gretzky there was a change there.