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Prospect Info: Grand Rapids Griffins Discussion

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Kingpin794 said:
I think the thing to remember with the guys you just listed (Seider, Berggren, Edvinsson) all played a good chunk of time in pro European leagues before they got to Simon. They were all about 90% ready to go before they even got to NA. I would say they developed IN SPITE of Simon not because of him. The guys who you could really say he had a hand in were probably Hronek, Zadina, and Veleno. Hronek is gone and I'd bet money Veleno and/or Zadina are moved at some point pretty soon too.
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eh I don't know how much Simon specifically helped or didn't help but I don't think this is really a fair way of characterizing Seider's AHL year
 
Run the Jewels said:
In a re-draft, where does Seider end up being picked? I think he's an outlier and I would hesitate to use him as an example.
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sure but he went to the AHL in his D+1 year

just saying that's not at all the same thing developmentally as Berggren or even Edvinsson
 
OgeeOgelthorpe said:
Not surprised. Andreasson wasn’t utilized to his fullest on that squad. He deserved more top line or top 6 time than he got. I’m expecting a long SHL career for him.
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not so sure about this. he finished with 25 points, 14 of which came between Nov. 4-Dec. 7. that's great, but also means he scattered only 11 points throughout the rest of the season. for a guy turning 25 this summer that is... not meaningful production, no matter what line you're on.

and i watched a lot of GR in the second half, he was in the top 6 plenty -- they had paperthin depth. didn't notice him most nights. most disappointingly, he had a reputation as an agitator in the SHL, and i didn't see any of that.

i am sure he will pick up where he left off in the SHL. i wish him well, and i like when the Wings roll the dice on European free agents, but let's not pretend he didn't get a chance. you don't just get handed top minutes in the AHL. his game just didn't translate.
 
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Rikard Grönborg signed today with Tappara in Finland. 3-year deal.

He sounded like (between the lines) this is the last path until he becomes an NHL coach. This is the last path for him, how to learn to Tappara's continuous winning culture. Why those Finns are so good, and why Tappara is the ultimate best of Finnish teams.

It's very interesting career path, how Grönborg described himself. Like being the NA consultant for Sweden on early days +20 years ago. Swedish junior and national team coaching systems wanted to add his North American view for Swedish hockey.

Then teams in Switzerland were interested to add this Swedish package to their hockey. And Switzerland was very different place to coach. So many different styles and so many different nationalities against you. Every night was a different game, he learned a lot about that.

Now, the final phase is to join Tappara, team with most winning titles in Finland. And going every night against a Finnish coach which are hardest to beat. Almost everybody plays with the National Team system learnt from the same basis. How to beat those guys every night.

This is not what he said, but I can imagine that. If he will learn it, Grönborg is a heck of a coaching package to be stolen to NHL in few years. Lidström should be be aware, and Yzerman too. He is kind of a NA-Swedish styled hybrid coach, who came to learn those things why Finland wins so much always as an underdog.

He could be ready by that time, if these Lalonde-projects won't work. Trough Griffins who knows.`?
 
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It's been official for a bit and nobody has posted anything in here?
 

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ricky0034 said:
sure but he went to the AHL in his D+1 year

just saying that's not at all the same thing developmentally as Berggren or even Edvinsson
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Seider spent his rookie season in the DEL, which is becoming a pretty strong league in its own right.

Also, had Seider played his D+2 with Ben f***ing Simon as his coach instead of working with Greg and Cam Abbott in Rogle, I don't think we see Seider winning a Calder or being only the 3rd rookie defenseman since 1993 with 50 or more points in a season.
 
OgeeOgelthorpe said:
Seider spent his rookie season in the DEL, which is becoming a pretty strong league in its own right.

Also, had Seider played his D+2 with Ben f***ing Simon as his coach instead of working with Greg and Cam Abbott in Rogle, I don't think we see Seider winning a Calder or being only the 3rd rookie defenseman since 1993 with 50 or more points in a season.
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Uhhh Seider played his D+1 in GR didn't he?
 
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OgeeOgelthorpe said:
He did. My point is his D+2 was in Rogle which is where he REALLY took off and transformed his game into what we see today. That Seider wasn't in Grand Rapids.
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That's not true - you just trying to revise history in line with your agenda. Seider showed in GR his potential - he put up almost 0,5 ppg at age of 18 in a new league and new country (there is not much difference between Sweden and Germany, but NA is quite an adjustment for a kid). He silenced many of critics of his pick almost from the beginning. He actually dominated at Rögle from the because of his GR experience. The expectation for him in his D+2 seson was actually to make Red Wings. Was he better after his year at Rögle? Sure, that's natural for that stage of development. Does it make Ben Simon a better coach? No, there is enough evidence to show that he is a turd, but Seider's development is not one of them
 
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DoMakc said:
That's not true - you just trying to revise history in line with your agenda. Seider showed in GR his potential - he put up almost 0,5 ppg at age of 18 in a new league and new country (there is not much difference between Sweden and Germany, but NA is quite an adjustment for a kid). He silenced many of critics of his pick almost from the beginning. He actually dominated at Rögle from the because of his GR experience. The expectation for him in his D+2 seson was actually to make Red Wings. Was he better after his year at Rögle? Sure, that's natural for that stage of development. Does it make Ben Simon a better coach? No, there is enough evidence to show that he is a turd, but Seider's development is not one of them
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I had a season pass for AHLTV that year. I watched all of Seider's games that year and while his AHL season was good, he was so much better in the SHL, which I also watched plenty of that year.

Since I'm doing a bad job of spelling it out, let me try again.

Seider in Grand Rapids looked very good, like a potential top pairing guy in the NHL. Showed more offense than many people expected of him, but didn't look like the kind of guy you run a powerplay through. A lot of chipping off the glass and static breakouts

Seider in Rogle looked like a guy that was going to compete for Norris trophies one day. Was dynamic with the puck, rushed the puck, ran the offense from the blueline at 5v5 and on the powerplay, turned a decent defensive partner into an all-star that year.

THAT is a huge jump in development. Did GR help? Probably some. I think a bigger argument can be made for Rogle's system, coaching, veteran mentorship as well as Detroit having Kronwall over there did a lot more for his development. That's not revisionist. They have produced a lot of NHL draftees and have an SHL finals appearance and a CHL championship in the last 5 years. They have a good system for players to learn in.
 
OgeeOgelthorpe said:
I had a season pass for AHLTV that year. I watched all of Seider's games that year and while his AHL season was good, he was so much better in the SHL, which I also watched plenty of that year.

Seider in Grand Rapids looked very good, like a potential top pairing guy in the NHL. Showed more offense than many people expected of him, but didn't look like the kind of guy you run a powerplay through. A lot of chipping off the glass and static breakouts
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OgeeOgelthorpe said:
Seider in Rogle looked like a guy that was going to compete for Norris trophies one day. Was dynamic with the puck, rushed the puck, ran the offense from the blueline at 5v5 and on the powerplay, turned a decent defensive partner into an all-star that year.

THAT is a huge jump in development. Did GR help? Probably some. I think a bigger argument can be made for Rogle's system, coaching, veteran mentorship as well as Detroit having Kronwall over there did a lot more for his development. That's not revisionist. They have produced a lot of NHL draftees and have an SHL finals appearance and a CHL championship in the last 5 years. They have a good system for players to learn in.
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I agree with this all.

At AHL, he wasn't better productive than a guy like Tobias Björnfot.

Seider wasn't even at 2019-20 AHL rookie all-star team. Other defencemen were there.

theahl.com

2019-20 AHL All-Rookie Team named

theahl.com theahl.com

He really bounced up at Rögle. SHL best defenceman 2020-21 and Top defenceman at WHC Tournament (Germany).

www.dw.com

How the pandemic helped prepare Moritz Seider for the NHL – DW – 11/10/2021

Moritz Seider wouldn't have wound up playing in Sweden last season, had it not been for the coronavirus pandemic. But it proved to be the perfect place to prepare him for taking the next step in his hockey career.
www.dw.com www.dw.com

At Next season he will win Calder Trophy at NHL.
 
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Way too many variables to even make the argument that y'all are having. Seider got another year of experience in GR along to go with getting stronger, playing faster, playing on a smaller sized rink vs bigger, usage, etc. If the years were swapped in Rogle and GR who knows how it plays out, cannot say with certainty.
 
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